Darwin's Training Log

Training Training Logs
221

I’ve been wanting to switch to a 4 day split for the last couple weeks, simply because I love my time in the gym. I was thinking about doing Shugart’s Basic Training for Beginners ( http://www.T-Nation.com/readArticle.do?id=460561 ), but I don’t like the fact that it doesn’t include deads. Would I be able to add deads on back day (or replace one of the given exercises) without compromising the program?

Or would there be a better program out there? When I try to search for 4-day split programs, I’m coming up rather empty (maybe not using the right search terms?)

Any suggestions would be most appreciated!

222

hm

well personally i love squatting and deadlifting(and ol lifts of course) so i wanna do these every day i go to the gym. i find it really boring to go to do triceps and chest. well chest is quite useless for me, but generally arms are too “Easy” and boring for me.

i say just do what i do. more or less ive changed a bit the exercizes from rippetoe… which you dont need to do, but i also do them in a 4 days rather than 3. i just find it too hard to squat heavy and deadlift heavy on the same day. i get too fatigued from the squats to be able to really deadlift. that may be fine for building mass but for me for strength its not IMO.

223

That looks like a good, simple, split routine. You could add heavy deadlifts every other week on back day, and maybe leave out rows that day.

OR, you could deadlifts on the quad and hamstring day. That seems more logical. Stiff-legged DLs might be better, GHR, or alternate each week.

224

[quote]lordstorm88 wrote:
hm

well personally i love squatting and deadlifting(and ol lifts of course) so i wanna do these every day i go to the gym. i find it really boring to go to do triceps and chest. well chest is quite useless for me, but generally arms are too “Easy” and boring for me.

i say just do what i do. more or less ive changed a bit the exercizes from rippetoe… which you dont need to do, but i also do them in a 4 days rather than 3. i just find it too hard to squat heavy and deadlift heavy on the same day. i get too fatigued from the squats to be able to really deadlift. that may be fine for building mass but for me for strength its not IMO.[/quote]

Sounds like you need to do SS part 2, The Texas Method.

That’s what I’m doing after I stagnate with Ripp.

225

Thanks, guys! Let me make this a little more complicated, then. :slight_smile:

I have a big gap between my upper body and lower body, with my upper body not developing quickly whatsoever. I’d like to do more in that area, to kind of balance things out a bit, as it were.

I LOVE squats and deads, so I definitely want to keep them. I guess I just don’t understand fully how to really break down a 4-day split. I’m happy with how Rippetoe’s is working, but I think it’s creating too much disparity between upper/lower (if that makes any sense).

Thanks again for your ideas!

226

Uhhh, not sure I follow. Let me get this right. Your upper is significantly less developed than your lower body. I don’t think you should break a 4 day further down, to let’s say a 5 or 6 day. Your body does have to recover. I know you know that. Let me take a stab anyway.

Dawg School Basic training for beginners:

[quote]Monday: Chest and Triceps
Tuesday: Back and Biceps
Wednesday: off
Thursday: Quads and Hamstrings
Friday: Shoulders, Calves, and Abs
Saturday and Sunday: off[/quote]

My suggestion
Monday: Chest
Tuesday: Back
Wednesday: Arms (bi’s and tri’s)
Thursday: Quads and Hamstrings
Friday: Shoulders
Saturday: Calves, Abs, and cardio
Sunday: off

Is this what you meant by breaking it down further? You could technically do cardio every day, or every other day if it becomes overwhelming or too detrimental to your recovery. Arms should be after chest and back because they will always be the weakest link. Now since you mentioned your upper body is lacking, let’s try to hit your major areas more frequently. The only way to my knowledge to accomplish this is to decrease the isolation movements and increase the compound. You could alternate an upper/lower split, or upper/upper/lower split.

227

When last I got my body fat checked, it was on 5/9/2008. I weighed 197, with 22.5% BF.

Today I went in and got tested again:

Weight: 198.5
Body Fat: 19.2%

I gained 1.5 lbs, and lost 3.3% body fat!

–

So, I also found out that the Air Station I work on has lifting competitions throughout the year. The next one is in August (August 7, I believe). I am seriously thinking about entering - not because I think I can outlift the regulars, but because I think it would be a lot of fun, and good experience.

The competition only tests BACK SQUAT, DEADLIFT, and BENCH PRESS.

If I decide to do this contest, I’d like to get my numbers in those three lifts as high as possible. But I also want to continue building the rest of my body.

Suggestions? Ideas? Links?

228

This was used by Dorian Yates:

229

This is the workout from one of Mike Mentzer’s books.

[quote]
Workout One
Chest:

  1. dumbbell flyes, crossovers, or pec deck - 1 set, 6-10 reps
  2. incline presses - 1 set, 3-5 reps

Back:

  1. close-grip, palms up pull-downs - 1 set, 6-10 reps
  2. deadlifts or shrugs - 1 set, 6-10 reps

5-7 days later do:

Workout Two
Legs:

  1. leg extensions - 1 set, 12-20 reps
    supersetted with
  2. leg presses - 1 set, 12-20 reps
  3. standing calf raises - 1 set, 12-20 reps
  4. sit-ups - 1 set, 12-20 reps

5-7 days later do:

Workout Three
Shoulders:

  1. dumbbell laterals - 1 set, 6-10 reps
  2. bent-over dumbbell laterals - 1 set, 6-10 reps

Arms:

  1. barbell curls - 1 set, 6-10 reps
  2. tricep pressdowns - 1 set, 6-10 reps
    supersetted with
  3. dips - 1 set, 3-5 reps

5-7 days later do:

Workout Four
Legs:

  1. leg extensions - 1 set, 12-20 reps
    supersetted with
  2. squats (or leg presses, if necessary) - 1 set, 12-20 reps
  3. standing calf raises - 1 set, 12-20 reps
  4. sit-ups - 1 set, 12-20 reps

5-7 days later repeat Workout One

I was stalling on the single-jointed exercises. My max was as follows:

db lateral - 40 lbs
db flye - 60 lbs
pushdown - 130 lbs[/quote]

I was getting my sets/reps, but was unable to properly progress because my joints could not handle the additional strain. You could obviously reduce the time between workouts to one day - so you would do this every other day. If that is the case, then I would definitely reduce the leg day to once every 5-7 days.

230

[quote]darwin420 wrote:
When last I got my body fat checked, it was on 5/9/2008. I weighed 197, with 22.5% BF.

Today I went in and got tested again:

Weight: 198.5
Body Fat: 19.2%

I gained 1.5 lbs, and lost 3.3% body fat!

–

So, I also found out that the Air Station I work on has lifting competitions throughout the year. The next one is in August (August 7, I believe). I am seriously thinking about entering - not because I think I can outlift the regulars, but because I think it would be a lot of fun, and good experience.

The competition only tests BACK SQUAT, DEADLIFT, and BENCH PRESS.

If I decide to do this contest, I’d like to get my numbers in those three lifts as high as possible. But I also want to continue building the rest of my body.

Suggestions? Ideas? Links?[/quote]

Nice job.

Workout that emphasizes squat, deadlift, and bench press … let me see. Take a gander at this one:

But seriously, if you want to compete, then you need to get stronger. I’m not saying a hypertrophy program (Dawg School) won’t get you stronger, but definitely not as quickly as a 5x5 or 10x3. So, which one is it buddy boy - size or strength? If you are tired of SS or are starting to plateau, you should look in Starr (Madcow), Stronglifts Advanced, Texas Method, etc. Essentially what you are doing, but less strenuous on your daily recovery. You only have one heavy day a week.

231

[quote]TheDudeAbides wrote:
Nice job.

Workout that emphasizes squat, deadlift, and bench press … let me see. Take a gander at this one:

But seriously, if you want to compete, then you need to get stronger. I’m not saying a hypertrophy program (Dawg School) won’t get you stronger, but definitely not as quickly as a 5x5 or 10x3. So, which one is it buddy boy - size or strength? If you are tired of SS or are starting to plateau, you should look in Starr (Madcow), Stronglifts Advanced, Texas Method, etc. Essentially what you are doing, but less strenuous on your daily recovery. You only have one heavy day a week.[/quote]

First off, thank you for the example routines! Much appreciated. I was worried that I might not have lost much (if any), as I still feel quite fat, and I’ve been eating a LOT more for the last month. But, I’m quite happy with the results, and think I’ll be able to hit sub-15% BF by the end of summer.

I think that if I commit to this contest in August (or the one in November), then I’m definitely going to continue lifting for strength. Of course, I’m interested if there are any ways to help with getting strong on the big 3 that might be different from what I’m doing.

I know that I need to pick between size and strength and focus (just like, gain muscle or lose fat). I’m new, but not that new, lol. :slight_smile: … seriously, though - would it be more beneficial to do something like a 10x3 over the 5x5, as 1-3 reps are for strength building?

I also posted my questions in the Strength Sports forum.

232

[quote]TheDudeAbides wrote:
Uhhh, not sure I follow. Let me get this right. Your upper is significantly less developed than your lower body. I don’t think you should break a 4 day further down, to let’s say a 5 or 6 day. Your body does have to recover. I know you know that. Let me take a stab anyway.

Dawg School Basic training for beginners:
Monday: Chest and Triceps
Tuesday: Back and Biceps
Wednesday: off
Thursday: Quads and Hamstrings
Friday: Shoulders, Calves, and Abs
Saturday and Sunday: off

My suggestion
Monday: Chest
Tuesday: Back
Wednesday: Arms (bi’s and tri’s)
Thursday: Quads and Hamstrings
Friday: Shoulders
Saturday: Calves, Abs, and cardio
Sunday: off

Is this what you meant by breaking it down further? You could technically do cardio every day, or every other day if it becomes overwhelming or too detrimental to your recovery. Arms should be after chest and back because they will always be the weakest link. Now since you mentioned your upper body is lacking, let’s try to hit your major areas more frequently. The only way to my knowledge to accomplish this is to decrease the isolation movements and increase the compound. You could alternate an upper/lower split, or upper/upper/lower split.[/quote]

Not what I meant. :slight_smile: I was merely referring to taking a 4 day split like this:

And how to really figure out what exercises to do, or in the case of the Basic Training, how I could insert (either by adding or replacing) deads. As much as I love the gym, I don’t want to go EVERY day. :slight_smile:

I’ve read CT’s article on designing a workout ( http://www.T-Nation.com/article/bodybuilding/how_to_design_a_damn_good_program_part_1&cr= ), but I guess I’m still not advanced enough to fully understand.

Part of this is a moot point, however, as I think I’ve actually found a goal to shoot for (the contest in August and/or November).

233

well most bodybuilders go for strength during the first 1-2 years. still there isnt much difference between 103 and 55 so go for whatever you want to

234

So, I sat down with myself last night to discuss what goal I REALLY want to pursue right now.

I AM going to enter both the August and the November contests. TheDudeAbides made a good point that I should just do the August contest to get over any ‘jitters’ (nice word, Dude :slight_smile: I might have about this. The November contest will hopefully see me place in one lift. We’ll see what the competition is, though.

That being said, I am considering going to this program: Westside For Skinny Viking Bastards - Bodybuilding.com Forums (it was recommended on the Strength Sports forum). I will finish out Starting Strength today, and then move to the new program on Monday, I think.

Post edited to incorporate sound advice. :slight_smile:

235


There is also this that I found linked from another forum. It’s simple, but I don’t know if it would be effective, especially since there is absolutely nothing else but Squats, Deads, and Bench.

I would reason that better progress would be made with corollary exercises, but then again, I’m still trying to figure all this stuff out.

236

[quote]darwin420 wrote:
There is also this that I found linked from another forum. It’s simple, but I don’t know if it would be effective, especially since there is absolutely nothing else but Squats, Deads, and Bench.

I would reason that better progress would be made with corollary exercises, but then again, I’m still trying to figure all this stuff out.[/quote]

Link please. I like the look of it. Not too different from what you are currently doing. I do agree with the additional exercises. It has a nice ramp up. If you timed it properly, it could lead right into the competition.

237

[quote]TheDudeAbides wrote:
darwin420 wrote:
There is also this that I found linked from another forum. It’s simple, but I don’t know if it would be effective, especially since there is absolutely nothing else but Squats, Deads, and Bench.

I would reason that better progress would be made with corollary exercises, but then again, I’m still trying to figure all this stuff out.

Link please. I like the look of it. Not too different from what you are currently doing. I do agree with the additional exercises. It has a nice ramp up. If you timed it properly, it could lead right into the competition.[/quote]

http://www.joeskopec.com/ruspeak.html

I’m thinking that if I take something like this, and add a few auxiliary exercise (maybe I’ll use Thibs’ design a program guidelines), and then 10 weeks out to comp, test my 1RM, so the final 9 weeks out I concentrate fully on this simple program. Maybe I’ll be able to do well at the comp!

238

WEEK 10: 6/6/2008

Last Day of Rippetoes! sniff

I kinda did some interesting sets, mainly because I just wanted to push myself today, and I have the weekend to recover before starting my new program.

LIFTS: (I’m just going to list what I did)

BACK SQUAT:
135x5
155x5
225x3
230x2
235x2
250x1 ← PR!!!

MILPRESS:
45x5
65x5
95x4
95x3
95x1

BB ROW:
95x5
105x3
110x1
135x5
135x5
135x3

DIPS:
BWx8
BWx6

INCLINE SITUPS:
BW+45 3x8

HYPERS:
BW+45 3x8

I was sweating like a pig. I know I’m going to be sore. I feel freakin’ AWESOME!

I guess the thought of actually competing has broken some psychological barriers, because I was pushing weight that I didn’t think I could do. Simply amazing.

Hopefully I’ll have my new program posted soon. I’m probably going to start a new thread, too, in honor of my new goal. :slight_smile:

239

Okay, I gave this a shot at designing a program. It’s my first time, so be gentle (but please criticize the heck out of it if need be, so I can learn where I mucked up).

Monday:
Back Squat - 3x5, 1x3, 1x2, 1x1
Leg Press - 6x5
Leg Extension - 6x5

Wednesday:
Bench - 3x5, 1x3, 1x2, 1x1
Milpress - 6x5
BB Curl - 6x5

Friday:
Deadlift - 3x5, 1x3, 1x2, 1x1
BB Row - 6x5
Good Morning - 6x5

Each day will also contain the following:
Chins 2x5-8
Dips 2x5-8
Weighted incline situp 3x5-8
Weight hyperextensions 3x5-8

Comments? Suggestions? Harsh Criticisms? :slight_smile:

240

theres no way you’ll be able to do 3*5 and then a triple a double and a single(supposing that those are supposed to be max? like the single is to be 1RM or more)

personally from what ive heard from most that go for strength its more about frequency and intensity than volume.

if you want to devote workouts “more” to certain lifts you’d be better off doing rippetoe but a bit altered… for example:

1st day
back squats
bench

2nd day
deadlift
overhead press
front squats

3rd day
bench
back squats

that way you have lower and upper body every day of the week and you devote one day to each of the lifts

you have to find what works for you though concerning frequency, intensity and volume.