Why do some of you guys even waste your money to go see doctors, then still go against their advice? Op this isn’t directed towards you, just everyone in general.
schism45 - It’s the benefits of EXERCISE not heavy weightlifting… Other than being stronger, the every day individual will have no greater benefit squatting 200 lbs than he would squatting 500lbs… however the negative effects increases.
The fact of the matter is if you go to a doctor and tell him you are in pain from performing a certain activity, i think it’s pretty obvious that the Dr. would recommend you not do that activity. Especially if the activity is not essential for survival.
At the end of the day what you do is your decision. … It’s just annoying when guys who have a basic knowledge on science try to discredit Doctors.
[quote]Bingbeast wrote:
I went to see a ‘sports’ physio because I knew through experience that if I went to my doctor the most he would do is give me pain killers and ask that I do an x-ray. In this case I know I didn’t break or herniate anything (no bruising, no pain in the legs, mobility didn’t change…), so I figured a Sport Physio would be of benefit. I figured they Especially because he was so highly recommended.
He basically told me that I hurt my lower back because my abdominals are too weak. At the end of the session I asked, so what should I do next. That’s when he said “honestly you should stop all heavy lifting”. He said (and I quote!) Heavy lifting will cause you to develop degenerative issues with the lower vertebrae. He said it would squish them, forcing them to lose their cushion and harden.
I am NOT saying that I will stop lifting or trying to debate whether we are all wasting our time with this self destructive, sado masochist activity. I just want to know if what he said has any value at all (and more importantly whether I should save my 70$ and go somewhere else lol)
edit: This is my first lower back ‘pull’. To any of you who have strained their low backs, how long did you wait before doing any low back involved exercises?[/quote]
When you say pulled your back, what sort of pain are we talking about? I’m fairly sure I’ve messed up my back in multiple ways, but really don’t know what qualifies as a serious injury. I’ve had periods where I’ve been in a lot of pain, but never been stuck in bed or anything. Anywho I typically wait a day or so… but I make habits of doing stupid things.
I’ve had doctors say not to exercise too much, to avoid taking the stairs and shit like that. No discredit to THEM as a whole, or all their hardwork. It’s just that when you want to live an active lifestyle, not even talking HEAVY weightlifting, it gets rather annoying.
[quote]Bingbeast wrote:
I went to see a ‘sports’ physio because I knew through experience that if I went to my doctor the most he would do is give me pain killers and ask that I do an x-ray. In this case I know I didn’t break or herniate anything (no bruising, no pain in the legs, mobility didn’t change…), so I figured a Sport Physio would be of benefit. I figured they Especially because he was so highly recommended.
He basically told me that I hurt my lower back because my abdominals are too weak. At the end of the session I asked, so what should I do next. That’s when he said “honestly you should stop all heavy lifting”. He said (and I quote!) Heavy lifting will cause you to develop degenerative issues with the lower vertebrae. He said it would squish them, forcing them to lose their cushion and harden.
I am NOT saying that I will stop lifting or trying to debate whether we are all wasting our time with this self destructive, sado masochist activity. I just want to know if what he said has any value at all (and more importantly whether I should save my 70$ and go somewhere else lol)
edit: This is my first lower back ‘pull’. To any of you who have strained their low backs, how long did you wait before doing any low back involved exercises?[/quote]
The most I’ve waited 1+ month. The least, about 30 minutes. Which one worked better do you think?
The answer- get that fucker moving immediately. Hi rep reverse hypers, PROPER stretching, foam rolling, GHR, etc got me back in perfect condition in a day or two…
[quote]The Greek wrote:
Your spine compresses during the course of the day. Then it decompresses while your sleeping at night. Yes, it will compress more when you do things like squats and deads, but this is not a chronic condition.
As you get older, the discs in between your vertebrae lose some of their fluid, and therefore become less springy, which is why the older you get, although very subtle, the shorter you get.
To be quite honest though, your physio sounds fucking retarded. I would argue that squats and deads are probably the two exercises that produce the most compressive force on your spine, along with certain overhead presses. But for the sake of my theory, I will focus on squats and deads.
Now, most of us squat and deadlift once a week. Lets say a set lasts anywhere from 30 seconds to 1 minute, and you do 3-4 sets. AT MOST, this is 4 minutes of squatting, and 4 minutes of deadlifting a week. 8 minutes total A WEEK (unless you squat and deadlift more than once a week). The point I’m trying to make is its going to take A LOT more than that to lead to a chronic decompression of the spine, which I don’ think is even possible until you have aged significantly. I would be much more worried about something like herniating a disc due to improper form than the possibility of shrinking due to lifting heavy. And honestly, when your 60, I think you are going to have much more important issues to worry about than how tall you are LOL. [/quote]
You’re over-thinking this. You said it yourself you took too high a jump in weight and now your back hurts. I never understood why people would take huge jumps in weights, as a max I would never go up more than 20lbs at a time especially on DL’s. Usually I just add 5-10lb/week and have worked up to a 455lb rack pull with my low back barely getting sore.
Lastly, there is a cost-benefit to EVERYTHING in life. Lifting weights is no exception.
[quote]Bingbeast wrote:
Basically he blamed the whole thing on heavy deads and heavy lifting in general. He was telling me that if I continued with heavy lifting that I would basically crush my vertebrae. Claiming I would shrink by at least 2" and develop major back issues. He was not even speaking about me specifically, he was speaking out about any form of heavy lifting involving the spine.[/quote]
Maybe he should of been talking about you specifically.
In addition to everything everyone else said, you should take this as a sign to watch your form. If you chronically practice bad form on squats and deads, eventually you will pull your back, maybe worse. Not only that, you will not progress as fast. Don’t just concentrate on getting the weight up; concentrate on getting it up CORRECTLY. You will experience faster gains and less injuries as a result. Grease the groove.
I know for me its a lot easier to recruit my back than my glutes, but when I concentrate on using the glutes, the lift is more exhausting but easier a the same time. And my back feels better after I do it.
Back in August, I injured the ever living hell of out my back - I got myself a severe serratus posterior inferior sprain along with a crushed L5/S1. My doc gave me some muscle relaxers that helped the serratus a bit, but what really helped was seeing a chiro.
My chiro used to be into powerlifting - he squatting like 465 at a competition. Not earth-shattering, but better than pretty much anyone else. The point is, he knew the mindset I had, and that I would never put down the weights, nor did he think that I should.
Not only did he wrench on my back plenty and get it working really well, he actually encouraged me along the way. Now I have no issues with it from that injury, and I’m squatting and deadlifting heavy again.
Moral of the story: try to find a physical therapist that’s a bodybuilder or powerlifter or once was. He’ll understand that the medical textbooks written in the 70s when lifting was young aren’t quite up to date, and that lifting is something the human body does very well.
He’s pretty much right, he just forgot to mention as you get older you’ll get hurt too. People lift heavy because they want to, enjoy it and compete. If your lifting purely for health reasons then you’ll never get too strong. Look at any successful powerlifter at 50 everyone of them have hurt or pulled something it comes with the game. Your body will not adapt and grow if you don’t give it a reason to change.
A physio’s job is to keep you healthy limber, he will advise you accordingly. If you want to be superstrong at rack pulls or deadlifts then tell him you don’t care about that you just want to be able to lift heavy weight and he may just change his advice.
[quote]The Greek wrote:
Your spine compresses during the course of the day. Then it decompresses while your sleeping at night. Yes, it will compress more when you do things like squats and deads, but this is not a chronic condition.
As you get older, the discs in between your vertebrae lose some of their fluid, and therefore become less springy, which is why the older you get, although very subtle, the shorter you get.
To be quite honest though, your physio sounds fucking retarded. I would argue that squats and deads are probably the two exercises that produce the most compressive force on your spine, along with certain overhead presses. But for the sake of my theory, I will focus on squats and deads.
Now, most of us squat and deadlift once a week. Lets say a set lasts anywhere from 30 seconds to 1 minute, and you do 3-4 sets. AT MOST, this is 4 minutes of squatting, and 4 minutes of deadlifting a week. 8 minutes total A WEEK (unless you squat and deadlift more than once a week). The point I’m trying to make is its going to take A LOT more than that to lead to a chronic decompression of the spine, which I don’ think is even possible until you have aged significantly. I would be much more worried about something like herniating a disc due to improper form than the possibility of shrinking due to lifting heavy. And honestly, when your 60, I think you are going to have much more important issues to worry about than how tall you are LOL. [/quote]
Most forms of serious training becomes unhealthy once past a certain point, if it’s healthy then you’re not training hard enough.
While the above was said at least somewhat in jest, I still think there’s quite a bit of truth in it. As you progress and become stronger you will need to push your body harder in order to keep progressing. You will also be able to handle heavier weights and that means that if something goes wrong it will be potentially more damaging. Then there’s the age factor, suddenly you’re not as indestructible as you were in your early twenties and stuff that used to feel ok slowly start being painful. The list could probably be made quite long if one wanted, but that’d just get me depressed so I’m stopping there.
This isn’t exclusive to lifting though, it holds true for most sports really provided that you practice them at a serious enough level. Yet, lifting seem to get all the crap, seems far less common that doctors complain about, for example, soccer. This is actually quite funny because statistically, lifting is very safe when compared to other sports.
If health and longevity is the main goal, here’s what to do: Take daily walks, maintain a fairly low bodyweight, keep a healthy diet, do some weight training but go light and don’t train too much. Enjoy, the rest of us will be having fun over by the squat rack.
[quote]Bingbeast wrote:
hello. I pulled my back a few weeks ago doing heavy rack deads. Nothing happened in particular, I think I just made too big of a weight jump from my usual floor deads to rack deads. So I have taken a couple of weeks off all lifting (just icing and heating) and decided to go see this physio-therapist a friend highly recommended.
Basically he blamed the whole thing on heavy deads and heavy lifting in general. He was telling me that if I continued with heavy lifting that I would basically crush my vertebrae. Claiming I would shrink by at least 2" and develop major back issues. He was not even speaking about me specifically, he was speaking out about any form of heavy lifting involving the spine.
I have definitely heard about powerlifters shrinking several inches as they age due to the heavy poundages but I know he must have been exaggerating his point. Either way, I left his office to go do some front squats…
Just wanted to get some other views… does anything he said have any merit or is this just another case of people talking about things that they’ve read in books without any real experience?[/quote]
Everyone shrinks with age. I don’t know if lifters are likely to shrink more. I suspect nobody knows for sure. My hunch is that lifters will shrink less because they will have better bone density, develop better posture, be more nutritionally conscious and do work that stimulates blood flow to areas that might otherwise be starved for blood.[/quote]
I think you’re right. The reality is that people who lift weights really only have the heavy bar on their back for a few minutes a week at most. I can’t see this significantly affecting their height in a negative way.
[quote]The Greek wrote:
Your spine compresses during the course of the day. Then it decompresses while your sleeping at night. Yes, it will compress more when you do things like squats and deads, but this is not a chronic condition.
As you get older, the discs in between your vertebrae lose some of their fluid, and therefore become less springy, which is why the older you get, although very subtle, the shorter you get.
To be quite honest though, your physio sounds fucking retarded. I would argue that squats and deads are probably the two exercises that produce the most compressive force on your spine, along with certain overhead presses. But for the sake of my theory, I will focus on squats and deads.
Now, most of us squat and deadlift once a week. Lets say a set lasts anywhere from 30 seconds to 1 minute, and you do 3-4 sets. AT MOST, this is 4 minutes of squatting, and 4 minutes of deadlifting a week. 8 minutes total A WEEK (unless you squat and deadlift more than once a week). The point I’m trying to make is its going to take A LOT more than that to lead to a chronic decompression of the spine, which I don’ think is even possible until you have aged significantly. I would be much more worried about something like herniating a disc due to improper form than the possibility of shrinking due to lifting heavy. And honestly, when your 60, I think you are going to have much more important issues to worry about than how tall you are LOL. [/quote]
