Daily Low Dose Proviron Works Wonders

[vonko1988]

I dont wanna lower my shbg Im affraid it may crash it. I would take it only for the increased feeling of well being but wanna know at what price

[unreal24278]

Mesterolone has one of the highest, if not the highest… affinities for SHBG out of all AAS (much stronger than DHT!)

You’ll drop you’re shbg a ton, but why do you care? SHBG is important for a variety of cellular processes, but the “it’ll free up my estrogen” is bullshit, firstly mesterolone antagonises estrogen at a receptor level as it appears to perhaps have some binding affinity for the same receptor (competitive inhibition), secondly you’re not using it forever… so who cares

My SHBG always rests between 8-25 (typically between 9-17)… who cares… it’s not a variable I’d be profoundly worried about

Yes, there’s a correlation between low SHBG and numerous comorbidities… but the question stems “why was low SHBG prevalent in the first place”

It’s almost always

• insulin resistance/type 2 diabeties
• hypothyroidism
• cushings
• obesity
• genetics
• excess androgen

The first four are problematic, the latter two… I doubt they’re correlated with all the same ailments

[coastal_gainz]

I would say If you’re already on the low end - best to not use it. I stay away from it now myself as well.

[blizzardtest]

Spot on. I did the low dose masteron sidecar with TRT for a while. Its such a potent androgen. Yes there were things i liked about it. But its just too much DHT(talking about only 100mg/week).
It didnt feel at all natural. Tread at your own risk and realize that adding even small amounts of proviron/masteron has greater potential health sides than just adding more T(safer bet).

[coastal_gainz]

I think like anything it’s going to come down to the individuals response.

I only use 6 total mg a week to control my estrogen. Which for most people would be the most irrelevant dose on the planet haha.

I’ve Never run into any sides with either and honestly I’m insanely sensitive to nearly all compounds.

For me or anyone with true low shbg - more test isn’t the answer. Most guys will find a lower total t will be better for them as the sweet spot for managing estrogen is going to be in the lower of the Total T range.

Not disagreeing with you anywhere- just putting it out there that masteron and at the time of the original post, proviron really saved me from having to eat 2mg a day or more of arimadex- which is going to have much harsher sides than a dht derivative over the long term / life.

[unreal24278]

@blizzardtest

Tread at your own risk and realize that adding even small amounts of proviron/masteron has greater potential health sides than just adding more T(safer bet).

Disagree vehemently… There is no literature to demonstrate what the long term effects of additive compounds (in terms of non c17 alpha alkylated dihydrotestosterone derivatives) to TRT (replacing more test) is riskier… This will be a long post, so hang in here.

The prime concern stems from the fact that the simply don’t know how these compounds act upon numerous bodily processes that regulate/attain homeostasis… coagulation/clotting factor alteration for one is potentially the most concerning, whilst this occurs with supra doses of test too… we simply don’t now how the metabolites of these synthetic derivitaves interact within the human body, for all we know one singular downstream metabolite could have profound consequences within the individual taking it, of which in ten or twenty years could suddenly trigger a stroke and/or myocardial infarction…

Theres the notion that drostanolone, or any non aromatising androgen in that instance IS harsher on the lipids than test alone (oestrogen is pivotal for oestrogen and glucose metabolism)… HOWEVER, at 100mg/wk for a reasonably healthy individual, how much is a 15-20% drop in HDL going to matter? Drostanolnoe (masteron) isn’t DHT, it’s derived from DHT but is considerably less androgenic. The predispensity for androgen mediated side effects varies from individual to individual… For me I have the problems you’ve specified with testosterone… I found it to be extremely androgenic, grew body hair everywhere, especially in higher dosages. Masteron doesn’t give me androgenic side effects, extensive water retention, cystic acne/increased acne, intense body odour etc… not to say it’s “safer”, but to say “this is MUCH more dangerous than test” is outrageous and unproven… however I’d stipulate it could have a net negative impact on glucose tolerance if taken in high enough dosages.

In terms of lipids, proviron is undoubtedly harsher… one could make the argument for using something like primobolan with test for an older individual sensitive to certain side effects like water retention (excess water → higher BP → risk of myocardial infarction), provided cholesterol remains alright… less weight gain… high tolerability profile etc.

I can link literature showing postmenopausal women with ER positive (yet inoperable) breast cancer being given 1200mg methenolone enanthate weekly, the compound was ‘well tolerated’… I can GUARANTEE you the same tolerability profile wouldn’t be present with 1200mg testosterone enanthate… as a matter of fact I can confirm it. In one trial in which graded doses fo testosterone were administered to ELDERLY adult men…

25, 50, 125, 300 and 600mg

the 600mg group was terminated mid trial due to a number of serious adverse effects being noted… 600 vs 1200, pretty big difference (1200mg trial noting zero SAE’s), granted this is primo, not mast

mast is dihydrotestosterone with a methyl group attached at the 2nd carbon position, primo is dihydroboldenone (5a reduced EQ) with a methyl group attached at the 2nd carbon position.

Am I saying it’s safer? No… but I don’t believe the risk is dramatically higher

I also find testosterone, and specifically testosterone tends to exacerbate my pre-existing autonomic dysfunction… other androgens also have this side effect, but to a far lesser degree. I can inject 100mg test prop, wake up the next day with a RHR off 75-80 (usual is 55)… I can inject 100mg nandrolone phenylpropionate etc, wake up the next day with a RHR of 60 instead of 55

While I can’t comment on the long term effects (and I’m well versed on the potential long term effects AAS abuse can entail), acutely… for me at least… testosterone is one of the harsher compounds

[unreal24278]

@coastal_gainz

For me or anyone with true low shbg - more test isn’t the answer. Most guys will find a lower total t will be better for them as the sweet spot for managing estrogen is going to be in the lower of the Total T range.

Untrue, I’ve used up to 250mg test weekly, SHBG tests between 9-16… the notion that low SHBG men need AI’s, lower/higher dosages is bullshit. It’s all individualistic, I don’t like higher dosages of testosterone not due to oestrogen mediated side effects, but because I’m sensitive to androgenic side effects (body hair growth… acne/cystic acne) any dosage of test gives me water retention, the higher the dose the more water I retain (RAAS alteration, not oestrogen mediated)… My E remains perfectly in line with my T

Never used arimidex, have used up to 300mg for 2 weeks once (of test)… where’s my gyno, emotional outbursts? Nowhere, and yes that’s one individual… But I can link studies in which T (up to 600mg/wk) given for up to 20 wks… no one acquires gyno, decreased sexual function etc… some acquire acne/water retention but thats about it

[blizzardtest]

The two things I noticed with masteron were that my hair thinned out more than it did on even higher test doses. And it gave me that hyped ‘on’ feeling with an annoyingly high libido. I attribute that to its androgenic affects but it may be more correlated to the dopamine mediating factors you described with proviron.

[blizzardtest]

I tried that super low dose too. Mixed in a couple mg’s Per day with my T shot. If estrogen is a concern and it works, much better option than arimidex.

[coastal_gainz]

Nice to see someone else out there who has given this a go as well!

What did you run into on the sides if you don’t mind me asking ?

And what was your goal for adding it in?

Thanks dude

[blizzardtest]

I was experimenting with it as an AI. It gave me a nice boost in the gym. But it ultimately left me a bit too dry. And the mental/libido effects were too much for me.

[coastal_gainz]

Funny you mention the mental sides - I also struggled with this at times, especially when my initial doses we’re too high!

Maybe cut it down to 30-50mg and see what happens?

Thanks for sharing that, I feel much more validated as someone else ran into the same issues as myself.

[finkle_is_einhorn]

@coastal_gainz

I currently use masteron at 2mg twice a week, which is a laughably low dose but it works for me, i won’t be going back to arimadex or anything ever again.

Coastal I know this is an old thread but I have been researching a trt add on and I’d like to explore low dose proviron or mast …

I am a good responder to test and I am glad I began on a low dose when I started, so I wanted to ask you more about your mast dose and frequency. I am surprised to hear 2mg is working … what were you trying to accomplish and what has been the result so far

[finkle_is_einhorn]

@unreal24278

Oral bioavailability of proviron is 3%, given the potency of the hormone (and literature that exists) I wouldn’t worry about raised HCT, lipid strain is a concern… I believe 150kg daily dropped HDL on a average by about 50%, raised ldl by 50-60%.

The hormone isn’t anabolic to any significant extent primarily due to inactivation to “diol” metabolites by the 3b-HSD enzyme (also responsible as to why DHT isn’t particularly anabolic within skeletal muscle).

Effects of proviron regarding confidence/alpha feeling etc. DHT metabolites (and proviron metabolites) have potent neurosteroid activity, increased dopamine output eventually induced D receptor downregulation as the body re attains homeostasis… if the neurological effect stemming from proviron is primarily dopamine mediated (which is may not be… or may only partially be), then yes… the effects are temporary

Does proviron give you a boost in mood like an antidepressant? I have been researching the dopamine - testosterone connection. Over the years docs have Rx a lot of different stimulants in an effort to help me focus. Motivation and staying on task have been an issue. Dopamine plays a big role in that. Couple that with my low hormone levels and I began trying to connect the dots, and find a solution

Same question but regarding mast - would it have the same positive mood boosting effect?

[finkle_is_einhorn]

@unreal24278

In terms of lipids, proviron is undoubtedly harsher… one could make the argument for using something like primobolan with test for an older individual sensitive to certain side effects like water retention (excess water → higher BP → risk of myocardial infarction), provided cholesterol remains alright… less weight gain… high tolerability profile etc.

I can link literature showing postmenopausal women with ER positive (yet inoperable) breast cancer being given 1200mg methenolone enanthate weekly, the compound was ‘well tolerated’… I can GUARANTEE you the same tolerability profile wouldn’t be present with 1200mg testosterone enanthate… as a matter of fact I can confirm it. In one trial in which graded doses fo testosterone were administered to ELDERLY adult men…

This thread is great and I am very happy to have found all of this amazing info.

I took trt for a 18 months. Doc wanted 150 test and 5000 hcg initially but it was way too much. Even though my panel showed total test of 90 and estrogen of 7. Crazy low.
I dropped to 125 test and that was good for me. No AI. 18 months into Trt I added 200 promo To add back more healthy weight and try to lift my mood/energy/libido. That worked well as my total test was 1100, estrogen was 22 and shbg was on the low end - plus my lipids looked good.
However I never got a bump in libido or mood and eventually had to come off for fertility.
I’m going to get back on trt and im open to suggestion on adding low does mast or proviron