I’ve been taking 3g/day for the better part of two months.
No estrogen-type symptoms at all, just feel great and lifts + mass going up steadily.
I’ve heard elevated prolactin could be a side effect and I’d also like to know if it has any effect on the brain… so I havent tried it personally. It seems most users here haven’t noticed negative side effects esp when cycled
Well I started my first crack at any type of ‘test booster’ yesterday.
Just doing the stock standard 3g on empty stomach before breakfast. Will use for 7 days then add in some ALRi Restore as well.
Will probably use for 4-8 weeks depending on how I feel I am responding.
Gotta love getting stuff cheap when u work in a supp store 
I’ve been reading a lot about this on the web and in other forums. There’s a lot of talk about the potential for DAA to be an excitotoxin, and to thus potentially be very neurotoxic, and to fry some synapses, i.e. do permanent neurological damage.
OR . . . not.
There are some pretty vehement arguments between those saying it’s dangerous, why risk it, and those saying they’re just blowing the risk out of proportion. A lot of guys seem to be reporting big libido boosts and more energy, well-being and a general “higher-T” feeling, but some are saying it also made them feel shitty, edgy, killed libido, or that the positive feeling then crashed after a number of days, etc. Jury is out.
Though the anecdotal reports seem to be far more favorable than unfavorable numerically, the long-term health and safety aspect of it makes me want to stay away from DAA until more is known. If those who are wary of it turn out to be right in their reasoning, well . . . lasting neurological damage sounds like a bad thing.
Anyone else have more insight into this?
[quote]Damici wrote:
I’ve been reading a lot about this on the web and in other forums. There’s a lot of talk about the potential for DAA to be an excitotoxin, and to thus potentially be very neurotoxic, and to fry some synapses, i.e. do permanent neurological damage.
OR . . . not.
There are some pretty vehement arguments between those saying it’s dangerous, why risk it, and those saying they’re just blowing the risk out of proportion. A lot of guys seem to be reporting big libido boosts and more energy, well-being and a general “higher-T” feeling, but some are saying it also made them feel shitty, edgy, killed libido, or that the positive feeling then crashed after a number of days, etc. Jury is out.
Though the anecdotal reports seem to be far more favorable than unfavorable numerically, the long-term health and safety aspect of it makes me want to stay away from DAA until more is known. If those who are wary of it turn out to be right in their reasoning, well . . . lasting neurological damage sounds like a bad thing.
Anyone else have more insight into this?
[/quote]
This is what an MD told someone on another board regarding this issue.
"glutamate is also neurotoxic. yet it you ingest grams of it in your whey protein.
toxicity is dose dependent. they use injections of NMDA into specific areas of the brain to induce neurotoxicity. the concentrations utilized are orders of magnitude greater than what you would acheive taking DAA as directed. Remember, DAA is sold by a pharmaceutical company in europe as a supplement. If the toxicity were such an issue there is no way they would be selling the stuff."
[quote]austin_bicep wrote:
[quote]Damici wrote:
I’ve been reading a lot about this on the web and in other forums. There’s a lot of talk about the potential for DAA to be an excitotoxin, and to thus potentially be very neurotoxic, and to fry some synapses, i.e. do permanent neurological damage.
OR . . . not.
There are some pretty vehement arguments between those saying it’s dangerous, why risk it, and those saying they’re just blowing the risk out of proportion. A lot of guys seem to be reporting big libido boosts and more energy, well-being and a general “higher-T” feeling, but some are saying it also made them feel shitty, edgy, killed libido, or that the positive feeling then crashed after a number of days, etc. Jury is out.
Though the anecdotal reports seem to be far more favorable than unfavorable numerically, the long-term health and safety aspect of it makes me want to stay away from DAA until more is known. If those who are wary of it turn out to be right in their reasoning, well . . . lasting neurological damage sounds like a bad thing.
Anyone else have more insight into this?
[/quote]
This is what an MD told someone on another board regarding this issue.
"glutamate is also neurotoxic. yet it you ingest grams of it in your whey protein.
toxicity is dose dependent. they use injections of NMDA into specific areas of the brain to induce neurotoxicity. the concentrations utilized are orders of magnitude greater than what you would acheive taking DAA as directed. Remember, DAA is sold by a pharmaceutical company in europe as a supplement. If the toxicity were such an issue there is no way they would be selling the stuff." [/quote]
Oh . . . I wouldn’t go so far as to say that a pharmaceutical company (especially one in another country, whose rules and regs we’re not familiar with) would in “no way be selling this stuff” if there was a chance it could turn out to be toxic. Really?! I could cite examples . . .
The problem is, the jury really is still out. There simply hasn’t been research done yet to ascertain whether or not it’s safe in the dosages that the supplement companies are recommending. Inconclusive.
Interesting points…
OP I’ve also heard it’s good to use a methyl donor to increase effectiveness if you want to add any.
[quote]Damici wrote:
…I wouldn’t go so far as to say that a pharmaceutical company (especially one in another country, whose rules and regs we’re not familiar with) would in “no way be selling this stuff” if there was a chance it could turn out to be toxic. Really?! I could cite examples . . .
The problem is, the jury really is still out. There simply hasn’t been research done yet to ascertain whether or not it’s safe in the dosages that the supplement companies are recommending. Inconclusive.
[/quote]
I’m starting to see the light on this one. I agree Damici.
[quote]Mouldsie wrote:
OP I’ve also heard it’s good to use a methyl donor to increase effectiveness if you want to add any.[/quote]
I believe that methyl donors (sam-e and others) increase the conversion to NMDA, which is what makes DAA potentially neurotoxic/cytotoxic.
[quote]austin_bicep wrote:
This is what an MD told someone on another board regarding this issue.
"glutamate is also neurotoxic. yet it you ingest grams of it in your whey protein.
toxicity is dose dependent. they use injections of NMDA into specific areas of the brain to induce neurotoxicity. the concentrations utilized are orders of magnitude greater than what you would acheive taking DAA as directed. Remember, DAA is sold by a pharmaceutical company in europe as a supplement. If the toxicity were such an issue there is no way they would be selling the stuff." [/quote]
Sorry for the back to back posts, but I just read this after I had already posted. NEways, I read a study yesterday (About NMDA) and I thought something along the lines of what that MD said. Anybody have any more info on this?
While I agree with the idea that DAA can be excitotoxic in large doses, I believe it will be concluded that DAA is a safe supplement to take, especially at the recommended dose, and that it won’t cause any damage.
This is the same issue that has been argued over for 30 years regarding aspartame, which contains L-aspartic acid. While I know this is not exactly the same thing, if you consider it on a molecule to molecule level, both DAA and LAA are excitatory amino acids and will trigger the same sort of response in the brain, although likely in different parts of the brain. Human trials have been conducted with aspartame at doses of 75mg/kg per day for long-term (24 weeks).
That’s somewhere between 5-6g of aspartame per day over the long term, depending on a person’s weight, and still at those high doses, aspartame has not shown any damaging effects on the brain.
Basically what I believe it comes down to is the protective power of the blood-brain barrier. The BBB simply will not allow excessive amounts of excitatory amino acids into the brain.
I think that this should apply to DAA, although not common in the diet, it is still biosynthesized in the body and therefore not something foreign that the body doesn’t know how to handle. This is why people have argued about aspartame and MSG having damaging effects for years now, but the body has defense mechanisms in place to protect it from damage.
[quote]Chiron01 wrote:
While I agree with the idea that DAA can be excitotoxic in large doses, I believe it will be concluded that DAA is a safe supplement to take, especially at the recommended dose, and that it won’t cause any damage.
This is the same issue that has been argued over for 30 years regarding aspartame, which contains L-aspartic acid. While I know this is not exactly the same thing, if you consider it on a molecule to molecule level, both DAA and LAA are excitatory amino acids and will trigger the same sort of response in the brain, although likely in different parts of the brain. Human trials have been conducted with aspartame at doses of 75mg/kg per day for long-term (24 weeks).
That’s somewhere between 5-6g of aspartame per day over the long term, depending on a person’s weight, and still at those high doses, aspartame has not shown any damaging effects on the brain.
Basically what I believe it comes down to is the protective power of the blood-brain barrier. The BBB simply will not allow excessive amounts of excitatory amino acids into the brain.
I think that this should apply to DAA, although not common in the diet, it is still biosynthesized in the body and therefore not something foreign that the body doesn’t know how to handle. This is why people have argued about aspartame and MSG having damaging effects for years now, but the body has defense mechanisms in place to protect it from damage. [/quote]
Interesting. That could make sense. One thing to keep in mind though (and this may or may not invalidate your point) is that the recommended daily dose for DAA is 3+ GRAMS per day (and many are taking that twice a day, so 6 grams total). That’s a lot more than the amount of aspartame someone ingests from a packet or two of Nutrasweet.
Paging Dr. Ziegenfuss! We’d love to get your thoughts on this if you’re around . . . .
All valid ideas guys, I for one am just sticking to the 3grams a day and this is because of the lack of conclusive evidence to refute any suggested health concerns.
Damici - chiron mentioned the study used 75mg per kg, of which for some equates to 6 grams a day for some individuals. So the dosage is the same vicinity.
If you read any of the more educated responses to DAA, biochemists and the like, none of them suggest large doses. Some suggest a 3-5day load of 6 grams but other than that everyone is suggesting a single 3g serve.
I for one am just ‘trialing’ it out of pure curiosity.
[quote]mckdean wrote:
All valid ideas guys, I for one am just sticking to the 3grams a day and this is because of the lack of conclusive evidence to refute any suggested health concerns.
Damici - chiron mentioned the study used 75mg per kg, of which for some equates to 6 grams a day for some individuals. So the dosage is the same vicinity.
If you read any of the more educated responses to DAA, biochemists and the like, none of them suggest large doses. Some suggest a 3-5day load of 6 grams but other than that everyone is suggesting a single 3g serve.
I for one am just ‘trialing’ it out of pure curiosity.[/quote]
Interesting. Thanks.
Keep us updated as to what it does for you. Very curious to hear how it treats you.
I’ll revise my opinion on AI’s a bit.
If you naturally have E2 level near the top of the normal range it would be a good idea to use an AI. Using an AI without getting bloodwork done first though to see where youre at is not a good idea IMO.
Dr. Z, are you around . . . ?
I’d also be curious to see if there are any adverse affects once you come off DAA. Perhaps neurological downregulation of some sort? Or maybe no such problem . . .
[quote]Damici wrote:
I’d also be curious to see if there are any adverse affects once you come off DAA. Perhaps neurological downregulation of some sort? Or maybe no such problem . . .[/quote]
I used it for 5-6 days a week for a total of 35-40 days. I came off and I’m fine. Libido is still good. Better than before I used it. And the acne I got while using it is gone. I didnt notice anything in the gym. But I ahve a feeling that AAS experience ruins my ability to judge a supplement like this. The acne sucked though, wont use it again because of that
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]Damici wrote:
I’d also be curious to see if there are any adverse affects once you come off DAA. Perhaps neurological downregulation of some sort? Or maybe no such problem . . .[/quote]
I used it for 5-6 days a week for a total of 35-40 days. I came off and I’m fine. Libido is still good. Better than before I used it. And the acne I got while using it is gone. I didnt notice anything in the gym. But I ahve a feeling that AAS experience ruins my ability to judge a supplement like this. The acne sucked though, wont use it again because of that[/quote]
Interesting, thanks. How much per day? 3 grams?
A little less I think. 3 caps 2x per day of MGs product from another site. Recommended is 4 2x/d
Patrick Arnold, from another site has used DAA for 6 months straight no breaks. He has done extensive research on the product and was even forumlating his own formula of the product. You can search for his articles, they do provide a good amount of info.