Cy, Bill, Brock, TC, Estradiol

A little confusion, guys. Understanding our free and total Testosterone levels, and how those levels may relate to effects we may feel in our bodies (and in the muscle building progress we make) seems pretty straightfoward. However, Estrogens (in the male) are a bit confusing in my mind. So…some questions:

1)Is estradiol in fact the most important estrogen to have measured (if we choose to monitor it for you flamers!) OR is a Total Estrogens more important?

2)Is there some direct and/or indirect correlation between Estradiol and Testosterone?

3) What basic (al biet general) conclusions can we derive from the Estrogen/Estradiol level that we have measured? (i.e. in the male, a high level can mean X or a low level can mean Y…)

4) To what degree do estrogens need to be “supressed” (if at all) and for what duration?

5) Is “M” currently the best supressor on the market, non-prescription?

Thanks, guys. In the past, I know that various authors have recommended measuring Estradiol/Estrogen, but they did not go into too much depth. THANKS!

I’d think that you could use either estradiol or total estrogens as your guideline, it’s six of one, half a dozen of the other. Estradiol is probably the better figure but either is fine.

For any given level of aromatase in the body, the more testosterone, the more estrogen. Individuals with low levels of aromatase might have low estrogen while having high estrogen, while individuals with high levels of aromatase could experience the opposite condition. (There’s no medical test for aromatase levels.)

Higher levels of estrogen in the male inhibit
testosterone production and may encourage
deposition of bodyfat. On the other hand, going below normal may impair mood and may reduce muscular gains a little bit (unproven but seems so.)

I don’t know anything better than M on the
market for the purpose, other than prescription drugs.

Bill. To take the reasoning a little furthur. If one measures both a)Free and Total Testosterone and b) Estradiol/Estrogens, THEN: based on the fact that we can “take supression a little to far” (mood changes/actual inhibition of muscle gains), IT SEEMS that the only time we need to be concerned about Estrogen supression (for muscle building puposes)is when Estrogen levels are high and Testosterone is low, relative to each other. Is that valid reasoning?

Before someone thinks that this is a “DUH” conclusion, I thought I’d better clarify. By what Bill has said, it SEEMS like that IF testosterone levels are HIGH or NORMAL, there should be no need to supress Estrogens (whether they are “high” or not) based on the blood level we receive. Interesting…Any additional thoughts?

Certainly we need to be concerned if estrogen is high and testosterone is low. But also if estrogen is high and testosterone is midrange, then decreasing estrogen to mid or low normal (but still in the normal range) will increase testosterone.

Similarly, even with high normal testosterone, if estrogen levels are high, decreasing them to mid or low normal would I am guessing (the above two are observed but this is a guess) still increase testosterone somewhat. But the benefit would be less than in the above two cases.