SO I’m cutting, got from 231-215 pretty easily, but the last couple weeks I’m stuck around 215. My calories are around 2500.
Macros on workout days: 2500 cals: 116f/84net carbs / 250 protein. (numbers approximate).
Macros on conditioning days: 2500 cals 150f/30 net carbs / 250 protein
I’m thinking my fat numbers are too high…and am going to try lowering them. Thoughts?
Well, what are the changes you have made since starting to diet down?
When did you start to diet down?
How much cardio are you doing?
Yes, fats are high
started march 1st, at 231. For cardio I’ve been doing tabatas and complexes, along with a lot of plyo jumping of varying types, some rope work too. I’ve just slowly stripped off carbs/fat/overall calories to get to the point I’m at now
maybe drop overall cals another 10%. your fats look fine, im assuming you like me and low carb seems to be the onyl thing to work to get rid of BF and good fats do not put weight on you. maybe drop carbs slightly more, 15-20 on conditioning days, 50-65 on workout days most of which in post workout meal.
Aslo maybe look into a PSMF (Protein Sparring Modified fast) google it I forget who made it, but its basically a super low cal fast while only maintaining protein, its like 85% protein 10% fat 5% carb with around 1200 cals a day or less the protein is to maintain as much muscle as possible while cutting fat drastically fast. the guy has a calculator on his site if i remember correctly.
The only other advice is if you do cut cals more or try a PSMF, remember to do refeeds after every couple weeks so your body doesnt get too used to the low cals. When i diet i like to dip below 2000 calls a day for 6 days, then one day a week (same day every week) ill have one or two cheat meals i dont count cals at all, then rest of that day ill eat clean. I once ate a whole papa johns pizza LG size and a LG vanilla shake in the 4th or 5th week of a strict diet, having such a craving for junk food i felt like i was tweaking lol.
Good luck
I’m in a similar predicament, so rather than make a new thread I’ll just add this here. I’ve been at the same fat-loss plateau for two months, despite spending over ten hours a week at the gym, and its driving me crazy.
I’ve been cutting since new year. The first eight weeks went really well. Like, really, REALLY well, taking me from 290 to around 265. I accomplished this by continuing the heavy lifting I was doing, but cleaning up my diet, keeping carbs to the peri-workout window and a single cheat meal, and taking my calories down to around 3000kcal/day (I don’t know what they were at before. Higher, I imagine).
Then I took four weeks off for a religious fast. My lifting and kcal both decrease, my eating gets kinda dirty (more on this later) but I end up dropping down to 255. I figure ‘great!’ I plan my progressions for the next fourteen weeks (the next phase in my fat loss) and set a goal to get down to 240. Piece of cake, I figure.
Nothing. Nothing since then. Nothing for eight weeks.
I weigh myself every two weeks. After the first two weeks, I see no fat loss (I actually see some miniscule weight GAIN), but I figure, no biggie. I stop adding Surge Recovery to my workout drink so that now its only Surge Workout Fuel. I figure if I limit daily carbs some more, it’ll force my body to use fat for fuel even more.
Two weeks later, and no change in body composition or scale, and I figure something else has got to give. I begin to sprint three times a week, each time doing three sprints. Its small, but its good conditioning for my heart and lungs, and there’s sure to be some EPOC that’ll kick-start my fat loss. Also, I jump from one to two HOT-ROX each day.
Two weeks later, there’s no change. This is definitely peculiar, but there’s still some things I could change. I increase my sprinting from 3 sprints 3 times each week to 4 sprints 4 times each week. Also, I add in some more work, just for GPP. I flit from just LISS running for 20 minutes, to doing tire flips for a few days, before deciding on doing about 400 kettlebell swings each week. Not for cardio, just to have more activity, but some extra fat, and provide some extra stimulus
Two more weeks later, and we’re at last Friday where I weighed in at 255, exactly where I was eight weeks ago.
Now, its not all bad. I’ve managed to put about 20 lbs on my working bench and deadlift 3rm, and 10 lbs on my power snatch and front squat. Also, I’ve quit smoking and my lungs and heart are feeling happier and healthier. Mood is good. Mobility is good. Sex drive is good.
But I’m not busting my ass in the gym for over ten hours a week to FEEL good.
So, continuing to work with the idea that ‘big results come from small changes’, I’m going to drop my kcals from 3000/day to 2500, ramp up my cardio to 5 sprints four days a week, and add ten KB swings to the total amount each week.
If that doesn’t work, two weeks later I’m going to increase from two HOT-ROX caps to 4 HOT-ROX caps each day. Sprints will increase from 5 to 6 sprints four times each week, and kb swings will continue to rise at ten swings more each week.
Two weeks after that, if I don’t start seeing the scale move, I’ll begin a program of super-setting crying and praying in the AM so it doesn’t interfere with my PM workouts, and two weeks after that this phase in my cut will be over and I’ll cycle back into maintenance mode.
Thats the plan, at least. And I think its a pretty good plan. It should work. Should.
There’s a couple of things that make me doubt the efficacy of my own design.
its possible my body is just trying to establish a new set-point. Like, it hit the panic-button weight weeks ago and isn’t losing any more weight unless I sign up for the Auschwitz boot camp seminar. If this is true, and busting of ass is about as useful as tits on a bulldog. Probably less so, because you could take a picture of those tits. And then throw it on youtube. In fact, there’s probably a vet somewhere with a plastic surgeon friend who…
What I really need is more carbs. During the fast, on the week I dropped from 265 to 255 there was 5/6 of a Vietnamese wedding cake in my refrigerator. At the end of the week, there was none. Also, some pizza. I don’t even pretend to know how this makes sense, but it occurs to me that somehow, through the magic function machine that is the diet and health of my body, what I really need is to sit on my ass and play through another of the Final Fantasy series while eating cake. And that this will magically cause me to drop fat again. With magic.
If increasing my level of exercise doesn’t start the fat loss, why should I expect decreasing the kcals would have such an effect? Granted, I’ve got the room to maneuver, I’ve got maybe 1000kcals a day to drop before I start thinking like the Donner Party but I’m still REALLY far away from my goal and I don’t want to drop kcals too early (currently halfway between 270 and 220, the latter being the goal I’m shooting for. I figure I’ll be ~10% at that point).
I know I’m not the only person to whom this has happened. There’s at least two other dudes at my gym, who are experience lifters, well into the intermediate range, who are trying to diet down and have been stuck at the same place for two to three months. Between the two of them, they’ve tried increasing calories, decreasing calories, increasing cardio, decreasing cardio, sleeping more, sleeping less, ECA stack, increasing the density of regular lifting, and probably even crossfit. Okay, maybe not that last one, but still.
I’ll accept any and all advice, but I’m kinda hoping one of the many lifters whose gone from Gordo to Good-looking can comment on what the appropriate thing to do is when you hit a fat-loss sticking point and the usual workarounds won’t work.
Because I know this will be asked (and, I guess it might even be important)
Breakfast: green tea, two scoops peanuts, 3 scoops Metabolic Drive, Psylium husk. 76/650
Lunch: 1 lb ground chuck, pinto beans, 1 tspb EVOO. 116/1300
PWO: 2 scoops Surge Workout Fuel, 1 tbsp creatine. 0/160
Dinner: 1 lb chicken, frozen veggies, 2tbsp EVOO, 4 slices bacon. 108/1000
On the weekends, it looks like this:
Breakfast: 6 eggs, 3 egg whites, four slices bacon, 1tbsp EVOO, psylium husk. 70/850
PWO: 2 scoops Surge Workout Fuel, 1 tbsp creatine. 0/160
Dinner: 1.5 lb t-bone steak, frozen vegetables, 1tbsp butter. 130/1500
And there’s a cheat meal in there somewhere. Its about 300g protein and 3000kcal on weekdays, maybe 200g/2500kcal on weekends. There’s less food because I sleep more.
Also, I throw back 3 Flameout capsules a day. I go through a can each month. And HOT-ROX, which has already been talked about.
TL:DR- I’m having a fat loss plateau despite doing everything short of sacrificing a new-years resolutioner to Gods of iron and body-composition. What do I do?
For everyone else, I’d really appreciate if someone whose gone from really fat to actually having a six-pack could give me tips on how to handle and get through this particular period in my cut.
Thanks in advance.
HOLY HELL thats a long post.
TL:DR is at the bottom. But you’ve probably figured that out by now.
Hey AccipiterQ, I’m making a very similar decent as you. In march I was about 227 and am now around 201.
I wouldn’t drop your calories much lower man.
With weight loss you have two real options:
I’d go the ‘do more’ route if you can. Add in 5-10min of post workout cardio, go for walks during the day, park further way, that sorta thing.
My calories have gone from 3600-3000 and I’ve lost a shitload of fat. But that’s because my work load is very high. (3 days of lifting, 3 days of mma, extra cardio when I can etc…)
Don’t starve your muscles, that’s what you worked so hard to keep! Eat more, do more, lift heavy!
Good luck man.
[quote]Otep wrote:
So, continuing to work with the idea that ‘big results come from small changes’, I’m going to drop my kcals from 3000/day to 2500[/quote]
This is the important part that will probably work for you.
All the workouts may be causing a lot of stress and cortisol, too. You could try cutting back the lifting volume (keep the intenstity), cut the high intensity cardio, and cut the calories even more. Then just chill and play final fantasy and see if you flush about 12 pounds of water.
[quote]EasyRhino wrote:
[quote]Otep wrote:
So, continuing to work with the idea that ‘big results come from small changes’, I’m going to drop my kcals from 3000/day to 2500[/quote]
This is the important part that will probably work for you.
All the workouts may be causing a lot of stress and cortisol, too. You could try cutting back the lifting volume (keep the intenstity), cut the high intensity cardio, and cut the calories even more. Then just chill and play final fantasy and see if you flush about 12 pounds of water.[/quote]
this is good advice, about 3 years ago i had been working out for almost 18 months straight, 5 days a week lifting and 6 days a week cardio and finally realized i hadnt made any notice results in either cutting fat, getting bigger or stronger for several months. i stopped lifting for about a week and a half from loosing motivation, i swear i dropped a couple pounds and looked more cut, which in turn re-motivated me to work out again.
just like strict diets should have refeeds, i think laying off the weight for a couple days after many months of heavy training is what the body needs sometimes!
[quote]evilachilles9 wrote:
[quote]EasyRhino wrote:
[quote]Otep wrote:
So, continuing to work with the idea that ‘big results come from small changes’, I’m going to drop my kcals from 3000/day to 2500[/quote]
This is the important part that will probably work for you.
All the workouts may be causing a lot of stress and cortisol, too. You could try cutting back the lifting volume (keep the intenstity), cut the high intensity cardio, and cut the calories even more. Then just chill and play final fantasy and see if you flush about 12 pounds of water.[/quote]
this is good advice, about 3 years ago i had been working out for almost 18 months straight, 5 days a week lifting and 6 days a week cardio and finally realized i hadnt made any notice results in either cutting fat, getting bigger or stronger for several months. i stopped lifting for about a week and a half from loosing motivation, i swear i dropped a couple pounds and looked more cut, which in turn re-motivated me to work out again.
just like strict diets should have refeeds, i think laying off the weight for a couple days after many months of heavy training is what the body needs sometimes![/quote]
Thanks for the advice.
Thats actually kinda what happened during the Fast, I was working out two, maybe three times each week (usually its 6) and wasn’t really pushing for top weights or doing cardio or anything, just trying to keep my lifts from atrophying over the three weeks of the fast. I got a lot of sleep and I guess a good bit of carbs and played a lot of final fantasy and POOF! one week later I’m like ten pounds lighter. It was crazy.
I’m not so sure it’d work again. I mean, I’d love to try it because it seems easy, but its possible I’ve already used up my hidden reserve of effortless adaptation.
As to the previous comment, how can trimming my activity levels and trimming my diet lead to the release of water-weight? And how would this be beneficial? I always thought it was really hard to hold on to water during a low-carb diet (and I think mine would qualify), even though I’m still taking creatine and SurgeSWF.
[quote]B rocK wrote:
Hey AccipiterQ, I’m making a very similar decent as you. In march I was about 227 and am now around 201.
I wouldn’t drop your calories much lower man.
With weight loss you have two real options:
I’d go the ‘do more’ route if you can. Add in 5-10min of post workout cardio, go for walks during the day, park further way, that sorta thing.
My calories have gone from 3600-3000 and I’ve lost a shitload of fat. But that’s because my work load is very high. (3 days of lifting, 3 days of mma, extra cardio when I can etc…)
Don’t starve your muscles, that’s what you worked so hard to keep! Eat more, do more, lift heavy!
Good luck man. [/quote]
Yah, that’s what I’m thinking. I’m going to probably shave it back to 2400, but with MUCH less fat, see if that helps.
I would : Up the proteins by 50g, lower the fat by 25g,
Do morning cardio at moderate intensity and have my next meal be a P+F exclusively.
You havent mentionned either but you may just need a refeed to kick back your metabolism…
[quote]Otep wrote:
Also, I’ve quit smoking and my lungs and heart are feeling happier and healthier. [/quote]
This caught my eye. How long into your dieting did you quit smoking? Depending on how much you smoked, quitting could have caused your metabolism to dip, offsetting what you’ve been doing to burn more cals.
Perhaps someone else with more experiencing both smoking and dieting could chime in on how that affected them.
[quote]NAUn wrote:
[quote]Otep wrote:
Also, I’ve quit smoking and my lungs and heart are feeling happier and healthier. [/quote]
This caught my eye. How long into your dieting did you quit smoking? Depending on how much you smoked, quitting could have caused your metabolism to dip, offsetting what you’ve been doing to burn more cals.
Perhaps someone else with more experiencing both smoking and dieting could chime in on how that affected them. [/quote]
I quit maybe two or three weeks ago. This fact is relatively insignificant, I smoked maybe two or three cigarettes a day, which wouldn’t have had a significant impact on my metabolism. Also its relative newness wouldn’t explain the stop in fat-loss prior to this.
[quote]zraw wrote:
I would : Up the proteins by 50g, lower the fat by 25g,
Do morning cardio at moderate intensity and have my next meal be a P+F exclusively.
You havent mentionned either but you may just need a refeed to kick back your metabolism…[/quote]
That’s pretty much what I’m going to do. I do a refeed every Saturday. I don’t go crazy, but I get about 250g of carbs that day. I may start adding some carbs post-workout on Tuesday as well, as Sunday-Tuesday are pretty hard workout wise.
Redid macros, here’s where I’m at:
Workout Days:
Before:2645 123f/113net carbs / 258 protein.
After: 2323 67f/111net carbs / 290 protein. I can drop the carbs by removing an apple that I usually eat pre workout.
Conditioning Days:
Before: 2578 156f/28 net carbs / 246 protein
After: 2324 92f/21 net carbs / 329 protein.
I’ll see how that works!
[quote]AccipiterQ wrote:
Redid macros, here’s where I’m at:
Workout Days:
Before:2645 123f/113net carbs / 258 protein.
After: 2323 67f/111net carbs / 290 protein. I can drop the carbs by removing an apple that I usually eat pre workout.
Conditioning Days:
Before: 2578 156f/28 net carbs / 246 protein
After: 2324 92f/21 net carbs / 329 protein.[/quote] You sure you need so much protein ?
[quote]tolismann wrote:
[quote]AccipiterQ wrote:
Redid macros, here’s where I’m at:
Workout Days:
Before:2645 123f/113net carbs / 258 protein.
After: 2323 67f/111net carbs / 290 protein. I can drop the carbs by removing an apple that I usually eat pre workout.
Conditioning Days:
Before: 2578 156f/28 net carbs / 246 protein
After: 2324 92f/21 net carbs / 329 protein.[/quote] You sure you need so much protein ?
[/quote]
Probably not lol. But where else am I going to get the calories from? On my low carb days it has to come from either fat or protein. On the workout days when the cut is over I’ll settle in around 250g protein and around 150 net carbs. Those numbers aren’t permanent by any stretch
A couple of suggestions…
You may want to try splitting protein and fat calories 50/50.
Depending how well your body handles carbs you may want to lower carbs on some of your workout days, if you don’t handle carbs that well.
Are you sure you need a refeed every saturday? Try a refeed every 2 weeks.
You’ve been cutting for 12 weeks, soon it might be time to ease off the diet for a week if you feel really stuck.
With that being said, the way I like to cut is to come up with a base plan, which is usually low in carbs.
I check my progress every 2 weeeks and if I’m not making progress or didn’t make enough progress I either cut calories by a few hundred, increase activity, or a combination of both. After atleast a month I will add in HOT-ROX at 1 per day, increasing to the full dose over the course of 2 weeks. I will drop the HOT-ROX after 4-6 weeks and then restart in 2 weeks if I’m doing a longer duration cut.
[quote]ACTrain wrote:
A couple of suggestions…
You may want to try splitting protein and fat calories 50/50.
Depending how well your body handles carbs you may want to lower carbs on some of your workout days, if you don’t handle carbs that well.
Are you sure you need a refeed every saturday? Try a refeed every 2 weeks.
You’ve been cutting for 12 weeks, soon it might be time to ease off the diet for a week if you feel really stuck.
With that being said, the way I like to cut is to come up with a base plan, which is usually low in carbs.
I check my progress every 2 weeeks and if I’m not making progress or didn’t make enough progress I either cut calories by a few hundred, increase activity, or a combination of both. After atleast a month I will add in HOT-ROX at 1 per day, increasing to the full dose over the course of 2 weeks. I will drop the HOT-ROX after 4-6 weeks and then restart in 2 weeks if I’m doing a longer duration cut.[/quote]
I’ve been kicking around the idea idea of HOT-ROX…do they really make you sweat your balls off though? I work in an office and don’t want to be a pile of slop while working