but a skinny weak beginner needs to train differently because of something!
Some will yes, some will get better results from the start if they chase strength over trying to master a difficult skill of mmc and the assumption that they know how to isolate certain muscles
it’s an opinion, I’m just putting out there, no need to be twatish. You think different, and have a different approach but I’m not making snide remarks.
We’re not dissing your opinion and I agree with it in principle but the idea has been misapplied here for years and it’s usually because beginners keep misinterpreting it.
This is what I wrote like 2 years ago to one of these guys:
"This is why people should stop repeating the phrase “base of strength” because they have now ended up confusing themselves.
The basic idea is that by the time this “base” has been reached, the trainee would be experienced enough and sufficently honed his technique in several basic lifts to effectively utilise more advanced forms of stimulation and progression.
It has somehow been interpreted as every beginner needing a crash course in maximal strength training because hypertrophy cannot occur before some strength standard is reached, so he has to get there ASAP, which is defeating the purpose the original idea. It is also not surprising that a large number of beginners end up spinning their wheels on these programs for an extended amount of time.
Your muscles do not know how much you are benching. But they know when the load they are required to lift is progressively increasing and they need to grow and adapt to handle this increasing load. This is all essentially about survival.
In the end, the key is still progression. Progression in volume, load, TUT, density, etc… and time under the bar."
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Agreed
From a personal perspective, I trained for almost 2 years with my cousin who was a bodybuilder, following his advice I made almost zero progress. In hindsight maybe he didn’t know as much as he thought he did so maybe that explains some of it
I then get frustrated and chased strength goals, 3x body weight deadlift and so on. This changed my body dramatically within 6 months. So for some it can be gold
But I did reach a certain level and then switch it up, I know endlessly sticking toit will prob not achieve physique goals.
we’re just having a little fun. Un-bunch them.
Yup! My physique really started changing when I increased the density as well, by not training to failure on big lifts (just a rep or two short) and resting as little as possible, whether that be two minutes between squats or bent over rows or 45 seconds between sets of calf raises. I also increased the TUT by not locking out on some exercises such as dumbbell presses for shoulders and chest, dips, triceps extensions, etc or not extending entirely for pullups and lat pulldowns and bent over rows.
I also learned to use a tad bit of momentum in some exercises in a constructive way, such as barbell rows, and using partial range for pullups. I also started using straps for most back exercises, which the max strength crowd scoffs at because it is supposedly dysfunctional and you have to constantly be concerned about grip strength, and all that.
Cliff’s notes: I started training like a bodybuilder.
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testify, brother!
In other news: did anyone else think Brickhead’s posts were by Stu on account of the new avatar?
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Lol - for a quick second (those avatars look pretty small on my iPhone!)
S
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No worries you skinny wristed pump chasing lesser spotter juice monkey
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The most compelling argument against exclusively using low rep training for beginners/ the “base of strength” theory comes from actually watching inexperienced people train.
99% of times, if someone is squatting, say, 135 lbs for a near-maximal set of 5, you can take 5 to 10 lbs off the bar and have them do a set of 12-20 reps. They’ll probably be better looking reps, too.
In my experience, this is true for almost every new lifter and almost every lift. I can’t explain it and we could argue indefinitely about the physiological and psychological mechanisms at work, but at the end of the day it seems pretty damn obvious to me which one of those sets is going to produce more adaptation.
Thank you Brick. Excellent insight from you and Stu!
General question…If you’re short on time, how do you adjust your training session? I adjust by decreasing the volume and increasing the intensity…maybe from a Cutler-like session to a Yates-like session. This might take 15-30 min off the session length. Will some of you cut back on exercises, sets, or do a whole different type of training altogether?
Kinda like you said…decrease volume, increase intensity.
Superset everything
Exaggerate eccentrics
Extended sets.
Shorter rest periods.
One thing that I find works really well is a pyramid with a return to the bottom.
So
15,12 ,10, 8, 6, 15
That with a compound exercise and appropriate weight will beat your ass everytime, and maybe you only do 1 or 2 more exercises.
Short on time for a day, or in general, as in can’t train like a bodybuilder because of other life obligations?
I think based on subsequent comments in the thread, I had pegged the training beliefs of others correctly earlier. Whether you agree with my approach or theirs, perceived exertion and not tracking your #'s on the day of working out with the goal of beating that # the next time, is not the same philosophy on training as I articulate.
Other life obligations?? Are there any? J/K! I meant for a day here and there when you might be short on time for any random reason.
Thank you for the prompt reply. Good knowing that I’m on the same page as someone at your level. The pyramid up and down is something that I had randomly used in the past, but I like your application of it as an intensity technique. What do the rest periods look like when doing that?
They get longer as the reps go down and weight goes up. I don’t really “measure” rest periods, I kind of just know when now…but if I had to guess it would look something like:
15:30, 12:60, 10:75-90, 8:90, 6:60-75
That last heavy set prior to the drop you really try to force more blood in there by having a shorter rest period. Really beats you up
Looking back at your post, I’d misread it. So you’re basically just going back to doing your first set last. I was thinking of pyramiding up, then back down 15, 12, 9, 12, 15 or something like that.
For those who have competed. How in your opinion should one go planning a contest prep if they want to do it on their own? Any tips in terms of diet/macros, training, cardio?