Hey TC,
Just so you guys don’t look bad, Advil and Aleve stress the kidneys. It’s Tylenol that stresses the liver.
[quote]bluebear wrote:
Biotest guys,
I appreciate you wish to market this as a supplement, but you’re skating very close to making clinical claims which I assume you know now require a clinical trial to substantiate.
If you’re interested I can put you in touch with some decent CRO’s who could manage this for you - just PM me. There is obviously a cost to bring a drug to market but if this is really that good then the commercial considerations should outweigh the development costs.
[/quote]
Is this a joke?
Quick question…my girlfriend tends to wake up not quite a bit but more than a regular person with headaches. Would this help her headaches somewhat? I noticed someone earlier asking, but never saw a response to it. If so I’d buy some for her and myself for lifting.
As well, do you think that little insurance health stack (Rez-V, Superfood, Flameout, Curcumin 500) would alleviate any of her headache symptoms? I’m sold already myself on Superfood/Flameout, never go a day w/ out a full dosage or more, but just checking to see if it’d benefit her in that way. Might be a good b-day present stack; then again she might just kill me, heh.
Very cool, nice work guys!
Just ordered two bottles! Alleve and Motrin do nothing for me
[quote]bluebear wrote:
Biotest guys,
I appreciate you wish to market this as a supplement, but you’re skating very close to making clinical claims which I assume you know now require a clinical trial to substantiate.
If you’re interested I can put you in touch with some decent CRO’s who could manage this for you - just PM me. There is obviously a cost to bring a drug to market but if this is really that good then the commercial considerations should outweigh the development costs.
[/quote]
UH… I’m gonna go ahead n say that I’m pretty certain the Biotest honchos are plenty competent with respect to any regs relevant to their business. Some passably sharp folks over there ya know?
This is a fair price. When I saw the sotte voce promoting of the product weeks ago, I was afraid you guys were going to hype the hell out of it to sell it at an insane price. Glad you did not. Thank you. Ordered two bottles.
Can this prodcut be taken with cissus quadrangularis?
[quote]trnielsen wrote:
bluebear wrote:
Biotest guys,
I appreciate you wish to market this as a supplement, but you’re skating very close to making clinical claims which I assume you know now require a clinical trial to substantiate.
If you’re interested I can put you in touch with some decent CRO’s who could manage this for you - just PM me. There is obviously a cost to bring a drug to market but if this is really that good then the commercial considerations should outweigh the development costs.
Is this a joke?[/quote]
What makes this hilarious is not that bluebear was joking but that bluebear appears to be 100% serious.
Sorry if the question has already been asked, but are we looking at this as a replacement for aspirin? For example, do I take it if I have a headache or just when I’m sore? Thank you!
Hmm, I wonder if this stuff works for Hangovers? Hah
[quote]JSMaxwell wrote:
If this stuff helps me get my headaches under control I will convert from athiesm to Biotestianity.
Taken with food? On an empty stomach? Which is best?
Jason[/quote]
JSM,
Not sure on the headaches as they can have a multifactorial etiology - but it’s worth a shot. However, since turmeric is typically eaten as a food (spice), and is fat-soluble, I think it would be best to take it with a fat containing meal.
TZ
[quote]KBurnett wrote:
If you are taking other medications be sure to check with your doc about possible interactions.
“However, due to its effects on drug metabolism, piperine should be taken cautiously (if at all) by individuals taking other medications.”
[/quote]
KB,
Yes, piperine can interact with some meds. Check this out:
Effect of piperine on bioavailability and pharmacokinetics of propranolol and theophylline in healthy volunteers
G. Bano1, R. K. Raina1, U. Zutshi2, K. L. Bedi2, R. K. Johri2 and S. C. Sharma2
(1) Department of Pharmacology and Therapeutics, Government Medical College, Jammu-Tawi, India
(2) Regional Research Laboratory, Jammu-Tawi, India
Received: 6 September 1990 Accepted: 29 June 1991
Summary The effect of piperine on the bioavailability and pharmacokinetics of propranolol and theophylline has been examined in a crossover study. Six subjects in each group received a single oral dose of propranolol 40 mg or theophylline (150 mg) alone or in combination with piperine 20 mg daily for 7 days. An earlier tmax and a higher Cmax and AUC were observed in the subjects who received piperine and propranolol. It produced a higher Cmax, longer elimination half-life and a higher AUC with theophylline. In clinical practice, the enhanced systemic availability of oral propranolol and theophylline could be exploited to achieve better therapeutic control and improved patient compliance.
Now turmeric can cause gall bladder contractions, so it should be used cautiously in folks with gall bladder issues. Turmeric also has anti-platelet activity, so its use should be discontinued for 2-3 weeks prior to surgery.
TZ
[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
how would piperine affect the Beta Alenine I am taking?
Can I take an NSAID while I am taking this if my pain is really intense? [/quote]
CB,
Piperine and beta alanine - not sure. Last I checked, there were two mechanisms behind the ability of piperine to increase in vivo bioavailablity: 1) non-specific (e.g. increased blood flow to the GI tract, decreased HCl secretion, increased enzyme levels that influence active and passive transport of nutrients to the intestinal cells); and 2) non-specific (e.g. inhibition of enzymes that break down drugs/nutraceuticals).
I’ve never read any research on the effects of piperine on amino acid absorption, so that leaves beta alanine as a question mark for now. If you do try the two together, keep track of the “tingles” you get…it may provide some insight.
As far as co-administering a NSAID, check with your doc.
TZ
[quote]Jason Randall wrote:
Fellas - due to my schedule I keep pretty quiet on the boards, but have to add in my appreciation on this one. This looks outstanding, and once again Biotest has created a product that speaks to a real need. As I’ve gotten older (37 now) inflammation and chronic use injuries are a real concern. It’s bizarre to remember the days when I looked at the ‘over 35 lifter’ forum and thought that that was light years away.
Just to clarify a couple of thoughts:
1 - The MOA (mechanism of action) is nearly identical to the prescription Cox II’s? (again, obviously the nasty side effects are negated)
2 - Clearly this should work wonders as a synergistic agent with Flameout, which bleeds into my other question - due to the health benefits of Circumin, is it appropriate to take daily, or should it only be taken for acute bouts of pain? Those with Chronic pain should be very thankful for this supplement.
Thanks again for a rock solid supplement - I would also think that this is a natural fit for anyone engaging in an intensity phase, as it should greatly assist with recovery, especially when combined with the existing Biotest Supplement Protocols.[/quote]
JR,
To answer your Q’s:
- I swiped this quote, but it’s a good one that covers the wide variety of mechanisms that may underpin the beneficial effects of curcumin:
The most recent review on turmeric, in the January issue of the Journal of Clinical Immunology (5), states: â??Traditionally known for its an anti-inflammatory effects, curcumin has been shown in the last two decades to be a potent immunomodulatory agent that can modulate the activation of T cells, B cells, macrophages, neutrophils, natural killer cells, and dendritic cells. Curcumin can also downregulate the expression of various proinflammatory cytokines including TNF, IL-1, IL-2, IL-6, IL-8, IL-12, and chemokines, most likely through inactivation of the transcription factor NF-kappaB. Interestingly, however, curcumin at low doses can also enhance antibody responses. This suggests that curcuminâ??s reported beneficial effects in arthritis, allergy, asthma, atherosclerosis, heart disease, Alzheimerâ??s disease, diabetes, and cancer might be due in part to its ability to modulate the immune system. Together, these findings warrant further consideration of curcumin as a therapy for immune disorders.â??
- I personally use Flameout and Curcumin 500 every day. If I’m not sore, I take 2 caps of Curcumin a day. When I’m sore, I dbl the dose.
Hope that helps.
TZ
[quote]waylanderxx wrote:
If I’m not mistaken NSAID’s are pretty notorious, as far as bodybuilding is concerned, for decreasing protein synthesis and the resulting hypertrophy because of the anti-inflammatory effect. I know there is some debate on whether or not this actually occurs, but it’s one reason why I steer clear from stuff like tylenol, advil, aleve, etc.
Will this be any different?[/quote]
Waylanderxx,
My suspicion is that it will not be a factor at the dosages recommended on the bottle. And just FYI, the early research that showed that ibuprofen (1,200 mg/day) and acetaminophen (4,000 mg/day) decreased protein synthesis was followed up by a training study that showed IBU had no negative effects on muscle growth during training (at least when a lower dose was used).
Appl Physiol Nutr Metab. 2008 Jun;33(3):470-5.
The effects of ibuprofen on muscle hypertrophy, strength, and soreness during resistance training.
Krentz JR, Quest B, Farthing JP, Quest DW, Chilibeck PD.
College of Kinesiology, University of Saskatchewan, Saskatoon, Canada.
High doses of ibuprofen have been shown to inhibit muscle protein synthesis after a bout of resistance exercise. We determined the effect of a moderate dose of ibuprofen (400 mg x d(-1)) consumed on a daily basis after resistance training on muscle hypertrophy and strength. Twelve males and 6 females (approximately 24 years of age) trained their right and left biceps on alternate days (6 sets of 4-10 repetitions), 5 d x week(-1), for 6 weeks. In a counter-balanced, double-blind design, they were randomized to receive 400 mg x d(-1) ibuprofen immediately after training their left or right arm, and a placebo after training the opposite arm the following day. Before- and after-training muscle thickness of both biceps was measured using ultrasound and 1 repetition maximum (1 RM) arm curl strength was determined on both arms. Subjects rated their muscle soreness daily. There were time main effects for muscle thickness and strength (p < 0.01). Ibuprofen consumption had no effect on muscle hypertrophy (muscle thickness of biceps for arm receiving ibuprofen: pre 3.63 +/- 0.14, post 3.92 +/- 0.15 cm; and placebo: pre 3.62 +/- 0.15, post 3.90 +/- 0.15 cm) and strength (1 RM of arm receiving ibuprofen: pre 18.6 +/- 2.8, post 23.4 +/- 3.5 kg; and placebo: pre 18.8 +/- 2.8, post 22.8 +/- 3.4 kg). Muscle soreness was elevated during the first week of training only, but was not different between the ibuprofen and placebo arm. We conclude that a moderate dose of ibuprofen ingested after repeated resistance training sessions does not impair muscle hypertrophy or strength and does not affect ratings of muscle soreness.
In the end, the take home message (I think) is to use the lowest dose possible to achieve the desired effect. 
TZ
I don’t like to mention this (because I really like T-Nation), but WHY are you releasing this, when Anaconda is complete and been advertised for such a long time? You haven’t mentioned this supplement before and yet release it before Anaconda. Maybe it’s just marketing tactics, but I don’t like it. This supplement now looks like a filler compared to Anaconda.
[quote]GusBus07 wrote:
Jason Randall wrote:
2 - Clearly this should work wonders as a synergistic agent with Flameout, which bleeds into my other question - due to the health benefits of Circumin, is it appropriate to take daily, or should it only be taken for acute bouts of pain?
This is similar to the question I have. If taking daily, when is the best time to take? In the morning, at night, with food or not? Would it be best to take after a workout, or how should it be incorporated to para-workout nutrition, if at all?[/quote]
GB07,
For what it’s worth, I take it in the a.m. (which is pre-workout for me) with my breakfast, and then again with my evening meal.
TZ
[quote]Barachiel wrote:
forgive my ignorance on COX-2 inhibitors. But how does this compare to something like Cissus?
for acute pain relief I will definitely try it. But I have clients who have been using the cissus to great success. Are there any comparison studies I can look up? I’m not getting much on my web search.[/quote]
B,
You are right, no head-to-head studies on CQ vs. Curcumin (or turmeric). Although I dont think much of CG for test-boosting (my own pilots have turned up NUTHIN), I constantly hear folks talking about its effects on pain relief. Perhaps you can put together a “super-pill” that combines CQ and Curcumin.
TZ
[quote]Rvd927 wrote:
Just tore my pec minor, no bruising or swelling though. I have trouble putting pressure on it like doing push ups etc. Would this product aid in the healing of this minor tear? Thanks[/quote]
Yep.
TZ