[quote]MichaelJohnson wrote:
Absolute crap form on that deadlift. Is this the way you teach your athletes to deadlift? Where are the legs? Or is this a new kind of lift-“the backlift”.
[/quote]
Giggle
[quote]MichaelJohnson wrote:
Absolute crap form on that deadlift. Is this the way you teach your athletes to deadlift? Where are the legs? Or is this a new kind of lift-“the backlift”.
[/quote]
you’re a dum ass. There, I said it.
No, this is not the way he teaches his athletes to deadlift. You would know that if you frequented this board and had read any of Eric’s articles. This is a max-effort competition style lift - no holds barred. He does not do this frequently in training. He’s deadlifting in the low 600’s at 165 which is awesome. He trains his athletes using a much stricter, neutral back/chest up style.
[quote]MichaelJohnson wrote:
Absolute crap form on that deadlift. Is this the way you teach your athletes to deadlift? Where are the legs? Or is this a new kind of lift-“the backlift”.
[/quote]
Are you going to post this on every forum?
His form actually isn’t bad at all. There is some slight rounding in the back, but that is pretty damn typical of a max attempt. Go to any powerlifting meet, and I guarantee you’ll see some bad form. In competition, all that matters is that you make the lift. It doesn’t have to have perfect form.
I think the key is that he pulled 3.5X + his BW…
Awesome in my book for sure…
J
[quote]MichaelJohnson wrote:
Absolute crap form on that deadlift. Is this the way you teach your athletes to deadlift? Where are the legs? Or is this a new kind of lift-“the backlift”.
[/quote]
Thank you very much for your kind words, Michael. As much as I’d love to argue with you on the Internet, I’ve got much more productive things to do - especially since this issue has already been covered several times on the forum.
Additionally, had you attended the seminar, you’d know that I spent a good five minutes discussing the difference between novice and experienced lifters with the locations at which spinal flexion occur. You can find out more about this in Stuart McGill’s books and at his seminars.
And, for the record, I’ve taught hundreds of athletes to deadlift - and only the powerlifters pulling circa-maximal singles look like that. Thoracic rounding IS efficient and completely safe for an experienced lifter looking to move big weights.
[quote]Jumanji wrote:
Eric Cressey wrote:
Jumanji wrote:
I see the title of the seminar, and wonder if any of the T-Mag guys drop stepped and dunked on someone, or ran a 4.5 forty…?
You know, “walked the walk” is the term so often thrown around here. Did anyone do an impromptu display of athleticism?
J
Well, “athleticism” is a loose term at best; it’s relative to the sport in question, you know? We had cyclists, MMA competitors, strongmen, baseball players, and basketball players in the audience; there isn’t a single measure that is going to define any of them.
All that said, my rec softball team did sweep its first playoff doubleheader last week, and all of our players remained sober through the duration of the contests. How’s that for impressive? 
Nice job on the sweep, although I have generally thought of softball as the very final “screw it, I am washed up” stage. Give my knees a few more years, and I will probably be writing you to see if you need a left handed hitter with blazing speed.
The comment had little to nothing to do with you Eric, but rather the general premise of “walking the walk” that is so very loosely thrown around here.
I think the term is mostly used to describe lifting weights as walking the walk. For strength dominated sports (PL, Strongman, Linemen), I couldn’t agree more. But, for the majority of athletes, I couldn’t disagree more. Yes, they need to lift weights, but for the millions of athletes NOT blessed with natural fast twitch dominance and reactive qualities, their needs lie in the speed-strength and plyo areas. So walking the walk for most sports would be being dominant in these areas…not in sustainable muscular tension… most sports need peak tension with immediate release… far different than picking up heavy stuff.
For the group you described, save for the cyclists, a drop-step dunk would measure lower body explosiveness quite nicely. Relative strength with a low explosive strength deficit… with some reactivity mixed in. I realize a strongman is pinnacle strength and strength endurance based, but dunking isn’t that hard for fairly tall guys with great relative strength. Even Tractor Trailer could do it at Michigan at “just a biscuit under 260”. I am quite certain his relative strength levels were nowhere near a strongman… unless you put a triple cheeseburger out there as reward.
Useable explosive strength would be a solid measure in my opinion. I do agree that picking heavy crap up is the first of very many steps towards athleticism. It provides a solid base of strength.
Congrats on the win Eric. And definitely more impressive, congrats on the lift… strong human being.
J[/quote]
Agreed on all accounts; I’ve always liked your stuff. And, the “just a biscuit” quote was priceless! 
Once I pull 700 at 181, I might make a run at a 40" VJ just to keep things interesting. 
[quote]Eric Cressey wrote:
Once I pull 700 at 181, I might make a run at a 40" VJ just to keep things interesting. ;)[/quote]
At 181? Initially I was impressed, but now I see that you’re just looking to cheat and push off your big gut at the bottom of the lift… and let’s face it, the only reason you made that 600 lift was because of those ultra-slick pants!
Go and externally rotate something…loser!
Eric~
If you make a run at 40", I will also. When I was playing ball, me and a white FS (Michael Gilmore)had the highest verticals on the team… who said white guys can’t jump? Highest was 41 or 42" at a Gus Macker in Belding… but I was a VB player during the spring when FB was less time consuming… so my VJ kinda doesn’t count.
I guess it is time to start being serious about myself again.
Meet you above the rim…
J
PS~ Maybe you, me, and Kelly will have to get together and do some presenting on this very subject.
Eric,
I know that there are many things that make up a good sprint program. However, if you were to pick one weight lifting movement to help increase your 40yd. time would it be the Deadlift?
And like I said earlier…very impressive lift!
Awesome pull Eric.
[quote]MichaelJohnson wrote:
Absolute crap form on that deadlift. Is this the way you teach your athletes to deadlift? Where are the legs? Or is this a new kind of lift-“the backlift”.
[/quote]
Have you ever deadlifted anything approaching your max? Have you ever dealifted? If you have, I suggest you tape it and watch your form.
Oh that Cressey, he’s so hot right now!
[quote]ZEB wrote:
Eric,
I know that there are many things that make up a good sprint program. However, if you were to pick one weight lifting movement to help increase your 40yd. time would it be the Deadlift?
And like I said earlier…very impressive lift!
[/quote]
Yikes, this question again? Somewhere, Dave Tate is weeping…
If I HAD to pick one exercise, I’d want to at least see the athlete sprint once. How’s that for a compromise?
[quote]Donut62 wrote:
Have you ever deadlifted anything approaching your max? Have you ever dealifted? If you have, I suggest you tape it and watch your form.[/quote]
That would require getting away from the computer, something most internet critics/keyboard warriors never do.
[quote]alfuh wrote:
Oh that Cressey, he’s so hot right now!
[/quote]
I am to please.
I’m surprised to hear from you, though, Dave; I would have thought that Vinnie, Billy, and Rhodes would have eaten you by now…
[quote]Eric Cressey wrote:
alfuh wrote:
Oh that Cressey, he’s so hot right now!
I am to please.
I’m surprised to hear from you, though, Dave; I would have thought that Vinnie, Billy, and Rhodes would have eaten you by now…[/quote]
is this the dave that goes to rpi?
Great dead, particularly at Erics’ weight…I like what Jumanji said; basically how applicable is limit strength to “.2 second” skill sports? I’m thinking that it’s VERY applicable.
However, the athlete needs to transfer that strength quickly to make the play; even if he’s a little late, he’s a liability…of course, I can also say that, say if a Dback IS there to make a play but isn’t as strong as the RB and gets run over, then “shuttle” quickness does him no good because his weak link, lack of explosive strength, a la Cressy!, got him beat. I’m finding some kids like the process of getting quicker but because heavy lifts are hard work, they’re missing the boat on this one vital parameter.
[quote]Eric Cressey wrote:
ZEB wrote:
Eric,
I know that there are many things that make up a good sprint program. However, if you were to pick one weight lifting movement to help increase your 40yd. time would it be the Deadlift?
And like I said earlier…very impressive lift!
Yikes, this question again? Somewhere, Dave Tate is weeping…
If I HAD to pick one exercise, I’d want to at least see the athlete sprint once. How’s that for a compromise?[/quote]
Nope…sorry, can’t do that. You have to pick one movement to make this guy a better sprinter and you can’t see him sprint, not even once.
Now pick the movement or lose 10pts.
Scipio~
Exactly. Strength is the foundation… the ability to convert that strength is the icing that is on so few cakes…
In your DB example, which is harder to build, the strength to make the tackle, or the athleticism to get there in the first place…? Your example assumes that it is easy to get to the POINT of ATTACK… this is decidedly the hardest trait to develop BY FAR.
The entire industry is built around making reactive and rate gifted kids stronger… even though strength is the EASIEST quality to build…
Maybe I am the only guy who has tons of weightroom warrior friends who always talk about their bench presses, but SUCK at sports. Maybe my neighborhood is different somehow… an anomaly. Maybe my thuggernaut friends are the only group of neanderthals who get shaken easily with a crossover, and then when weakside help rotates, thuggernaut #2 decides to maul you on the ground as opposed to challenge you athletically as you rise to the rim…
Plenty of guys in my HS talked about how much they benched and squatted. Very few athletes who were difference makers talked about what they benched or squatted, because the fact that you had to be strong didn’t define them… since they were athletes. The strength portion is a GIVEN. Of course you lifted hard, it is a small, but vitally important part of being an athlete.
My question, which I have posed 100X is this:
What do you do with the 190lb kid who squats 2.5X his BW, and Benches 3 plates… when he has slow feet, moves with decidedly awkward movement patterns, has less than zero spring in his step…?
We refer to this kid as “Chunk” (from Goonies).
If he squatted a bit more, would this help (geez, if I could only squat 500 as opposed to 450)? Maybe just a little more on his deadlift…? I know, maybe a full-body routine… nope, maybe every day training… errr… maybe, uh… hmmm.
“Rocky Road?”
J
PS~ This is the question I have spent my training years addressing. It is easy to make a gifted athlete stronger… doesn’t take a rocket scientist… plenty of 800 SAT guys out there doing it every day… trust me.
What about the other 95% of kids with dreams… hmm.
Jumanji:
What age group do you work with out of curiousity? In what kind of setting?
Chuck~
I started my career at the college level as a coach, and S&C guy. Then moved back to the HS kids.
Here is the statement I get the most:
‘Each weak we stay in the game because we are stronger than the other team 90% of the time, but we lose because we are always slower.’
Big Squats, muscled Olympic lifts, no speed.
Hmmmm.
I guess my niche is poorly trained athletes. So in HS alone, out of 6.7 million athletes in 2005, I guess I am only targeting 6.6 million kids or so…
as a pretty accurate rough estimate.
I add in some low level college kids during the summers just for some variation.
I work with the kids who have genetic traits extremely dissimilar to FSU or Miamai recruited athletes, yet do the FSU or Miami lifting program.
No spring in their step, no fast twitch dominance.
I don’t blame coaches. They all have technical and tactical knowledge to be experts in, and their only resource are S&C coaches who have little to no time to keep up with the science…
The basic fact is the idea that the S&C program did not MAKE that athlete. The athlete was recruited as a 4.4 kid… or he wouldn’t have been recruited.
Now, take that kid and throw him on any program here… seriously, pick one. CT, Chad, Poliquin, whatever… They are all awesome… makes no difference whatever. The kid just needs more muscle and strength.
The key is how do you bring up the kid who has a huge explosive strength deficit, and who has no spring…
I started by looking at myself and the training my coach had me do… I was a made athlete… MADE.
Look at gymnastics or ballet for spring development. Look at the principles behind the O-Lifters for Max Power development. Look at PL’ers for the underlying MaxStrength that is necessary.
Now look at your kids and see what they need the most to bring up their sporting mastery… so their body has the optimal output for their sport and position.
Easy Schmeezy.
J