I just purchased some creatine (just plain), and plan to add it to my supps next week. But have a few questions about the best/easiest way to use it.
I have read that most do 10g per day, but I was wondering if its post workout, or 5g-5g split morning and afternoon?
Mixed with grow ok? or just with water?
I have also read that most folks think pre-loading is bunk. I have plenty of it, and its pretty cheap so I’m willing to preload if it will help. Opinions?
5 grams per day is plenty unless you weigh over about 225. Then go for 10.
Water or whatever helps you get it down. You want to drink plenty of water during the day with creatine.
Preloading is bunk.
From what I have gathered over the years, if you can spread out your intake over 2-3 times per day that will help the body assimulate it better. Breakfast, lunch, and post-workout. It also is more effective when taken with a meal (proteins and carbs). Post workout, I would recommend it with some form of high-GI carbs like dextrose. If the Grow has high-GI carbs, than take it PWO with the Grow.
Also, you can reduce the dosage or skip it completely on non-workout days, as long as you have taken it PWO. Why - because if you don’t use the super-saturated stores of creatine, then your body will simply waste any other creatine that you ingest. Hense why the “loading” theory is mostly marketing.
Remember, the body already has creatine stores of around 100 grams, depending on size. Creatine supplementation is aimed at super-saturating the muscle cells to allow more ATP and CP production when hitting anaerobic training. If you aren’t doing high-intensity exercise/lifting, you don’t need to add extra creatine.
I wouldn’t say pre-loading is bunk. Virtually every major study involving creatine always used some kind of loading protocol. You don’t have to load, but if you do you will most definitely have saturated creatine levels faster. I would take 5gr morning and 5 gr post workout on lift days. On non lift days, just take 5gr in the morning. It’s so freaking cheap so who cares if the body waste 2-3g of one dose on your off day.
I’ve been taking 5 grams about 1 hour before I workout and 5 grams immediately after I workout on workout days, I feel like that works pretty good.
[quote]IHateGymMorons wrote:
I wouldn’t say pre-loading is bunk. Virtually every major study involving creatine always used some kind of loading protocol. You don’t have to load, but if you do you will most definitely have saturated creatine levels faster. I would take 5gr morning and 5 gr post workout on lift days. On non lift days, just take 5gr in the morning. It’s so freaking cheap so who cares if the body waste 2-3g of one dose on your off day.[/quote]
IHateGymMorons-
Indeed, loading of creatin beyond maintenance doses may increase saturation faster, but who’s in a hurry?! After a couple weeks, it will be at it’s peak anyway, versus about a week with loading. Why not load, since you may just waste a few grams and it’s not that expensive? Because the kidneys must process the extra which is hard on them. It’s best to take a little less than you need than too much. Long term health should always be in the back of your mind when training and supplementing. Same goes with excess protein. 1 to 1.3 x BW in pounds should be plenty for most lifters. If you are on gear, of course you can eat more because your body will use it.
Piper-
10 grams sounds pretty good, depending on your weight. But, you really need to take the first dose with a meal. Remember, it takes a couple hours for the creatine stores to build up in your body after you take a dose. Therefore, an hour before really does nothing in terms of helping that lifting session. Creatine is really a recovery supplement and can be taken with breakfast and before bed, just as easily as pre and post workout. I believe it’s recommended post-workout with a loading agent (ie, dextrose) because the body will be very receptive to refueling it’s glycogen stores and with pull the creatine in at a greater absorption rate during that window. Otherwise, it’s best with a protein compliment.
Also, 10 grams a day for a maintenance dose is for about a 260+ lifter! If you aren’t that big, I would back it down. I general rule of thumb is starting with 3-4 grams at 180 pounds and adding a gram for every 10-15 after that. Also, the grams total really should be based on your lean body mass (LBM) since fat mass doesn’t need creatine.
Sirloin,
You’ve given some good advice, but I question your statement about excess creatine processing being hard on the kidneys. Seems like simple logic of excessive ( by definition ) being harder on them but is it truly “harder” or are they just processing more, without any detrimental effects?
Here is some more food for thought. There are strength coaches out there who seem to believe people need 10-20 grams a day, all the time for proper creatine results. The Beast CT himself was taking 10 grams during each of his post workout meals during his mutation series as well, although in a more recent article CT mentioned he never saw much benefit from creatine possibly due to the amount of beef he already consumes.
Of course, David Barr in his article stated that 5 grams a day is all you need as well, due to the supersaturation and the +100% capacity that occurrs with creatine supplementation after a workout, rendering further creatine supplementation during non-workout times wasteful.
In short, definately some disagreement as far as the creatine dosage goes.
The article explains it all: http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=459369
Cheers
I have another question that I know has been discussed a bunch, but with all the new info on creatine I’ll ask it again, my son has been pressuring me to start taking creatine, most of his teammates take it, is it still not recommended for teenagers?
[quote]piper1 wrote:
I have another question that I know has been discussed a bunch, but with all the new info on creatine I’ll ask it again, my son has been pressuring me to start taking creatine, most of his teammates take it, is it still not recommended for teenagers?[/quote]
ont know thazt it was ever not recommended for teenagers by anyone except the overly cautious. I took it for a while before my senior season when I was 17, and have never noticed any side effects, and that was six years ago so I’d say the long term effects are nil.
Creatine is essentially an amino acid derived from protein. Like protein powder, it’s almost more of a food supplement than a performance supplement.
In my opinion, creatine is about the only thing other than protein powder and a daily multivitamin that anyone under the age of 18 or so should be allowed to take.
As long as they understand that “more doesn’t always mean better”, and that 5g/day is all they need, there shouldn’t (in my opinion) be any problem with younger athletes using creatine.
If red meat contains creatine, then how much creatine is in a piece of steak? The reason I ask is, I tend to eat alot of beef and wondering if creatine is worth supplementing.
I read that creatine is best dissolved in hot water. I follow JB’s advice from his Berardi’s Kitchen II article. 3g (I am smaller than him) with post workout shake and 3g with green tea in the morning of non-workout days. This way I don’t get the chalky taste on my teeth. UGGH
Don’t quote me - but, I believe beef has 1-2 grams per pound of creatine. So, you’d still have to eat 2-3 pounds to get the 3-6 grams that’s recommended daily.
[quote]NewDamage wrote:
Sirloin,
You’ve given some good advice, but I question your statement about excess creatine processing being hard on the kidneys. Seems like simple logic of excessive ( by definition ) being harder on them but is it truly “harder” or are they just processing more, without any detrimental effects?
Here is some more food for thought. There are strength coaches out there who seem to believe people need 10-20 grams a day, all the time for proper creatine results. The Beast CT himself was taking 10 grams during each of his post workout meals during his mutation series as well, although in a more recent article CT mentioned he never saw much benefit from creatine possibly due to the amount of beef he already consumes.
Of course, David Barr in his article stated that 5 grams a day is all you need as well, due to the supersaturation and the +100% capacity that occurrs with creatine supplementation after a workout, rendering further creatine supplementation during non-workout times wasteful.
In short, definately some disagreement as far as the creatine dosage goes.[/quote]
NewDamage-
You should question everything anyone says and cross-reference it with several sources.
As far as the kidneys are concerned, you can damage them with a variety of compounds, besides creatine. I’m looking out for the general principle. You can’t undo damage to the liver and kidneys - it’s best to be moderate with your supps.
I’m just saying any excess creatine, protein, and vitamins and minerals can over time damage the kidney. Let’s not take this to extremes - I’m not saying you need to meassure and account for every single vitamin in your body! I’m saying things that a water soluble that don’t store in your body, must be processed and wasted by the kidneys. In excess this is harmful.
More specifically with creatine - it’s tought to gage what you need/don’t need. For one, I recommend not loading. Then there is no need to worry about wasting too much. For two, calculate your needs based on your LMB, not total body weight. For three, do more research beyond what a couple high-profile lifters/body builders do. That works for them - but, that may not work for you. I would take a scientific approach and look up some studies on the compound. To me, it sounds like the 3 grams that’s recommended is a lot closer than the 10-20! However, 3 grams for a 230lb LBM lifter is not enough!
[quote]TopSirloin wrote:
Don’t quote me - but, I believe beef has 1-2 grams per pound of creatine. So, you’d still have to eat 2-3 pounds to get the 3-6 grams that’s recommended daily.[/quote]
I don’t think I can eat that much a day, thanks for your help.
Was this a question asked by a real T-Nation member???..please go back to reading Men’s Health.