As an absolute beginner I hope I’ll be forgiven the occasional stupid question.
Having said that…is it preferable to consume a pre/post workout drink containing creatine and l-glutamine(among other goodies) or should these supplements be taken separately?
Any input is appreciated. Thank you!
Unless the glutamine is part of a drink already, I wouldn’t use it. Do a search for it and read the Dave Barr article that comes up. I certainly would not buy Glutamine separately, it’s pretty worthless most of the time.
I’m currently supplementing with creatine, using it post workout with my shake(usually Surge or tuna and grape juice.)
I’m not entirely certain that Glutamine is worthless; I mean, sure I read the article here at T-mag that criticized it, but there’s a ton of good press on it and many people I know like it.
I am currently in my 4th week of using creatine + glutamine in a pre-workout drink (trying Lowry’s suggestion of pre-workout creatine load and, as a general rule, I am not a glutamine user, but I got a good price on some a while back and thought “WTF - I’ll give it another try”). Note that this pre-workout drink is simple water + the powders (most days) as I work out very late in the evening (after my late dinner and my wife and baby go to bed) and I currently am hoping to lean out a little.
For the first 3 weeks I did Meltdown I without focusing on droping my cals much at all, just eating a little cleaner an making sure I get lots of protein and water, and this week I began RRD II (more frequent workouts, less exercises per gym visit). Net results so far? 3 1/2 weeks ago i was 194 lbs. and i’ve been sitting at 200 for the last few days - I have never been nearly this heavy. That’s 6 lbs. up and my mid-section is a little leaner, arms are showing more definition and my lats are coming out a little more than usual. Overall, I’m f’n ecstatic!
So does the glutamine have anything to do with this? Maybe, maybe not. However, it’s supposed to help with your immune system and my sleep levels are crap, so maybe it’s that little bit that helps me get into the gym and beat myself up with the Meltdown training?
I’ve been using Glutamine and Creatine together for years. As far as it being worthless, I’d beg to differ. I’ve seen gains while on a Glutamine cycle, that I never got while not being on Glutamine. As far as someone tending to think that its like a self fulfilling prophecy, that you only see results because you believe it works is untrue. I don’t have time to waste in wanting supplements to work. In addition, since I tend to have a weak immune system, the extra GL helps me ward off colds much quicker. While on a glutamine cycle, I tend to have more energy, much more power, and I love the increased metabolic effect that it tends to give me. You can use it with or without creatine, it doesn’t really seem to matter, because it works by elevating the level of free growth hormone levels in the bloodstream.
[quote]slimjim wrote:
I’m currently supplementing with creatine, using it post workout with my shake(usually Surge or tuna and grape juice.)[/quote]
Slimjim-
A couple things caught my eye that others did not address… so, if you don’t mind, I’d like to.
One, that’s good you are taking creatine post-w/o. It’s a recovery supplement designed to replenish and super-saturate your creatine stores. Taking it before the w/o in large amounts can be mostly wasted.
Two, I don’t think tuna (or any whole protein) is good immediately post-w/o. Tuna is healthy, but not quick absorbing. To stop any catabolic effects and start anabolic effects, you want a rapidly absorbing protein. The best form is whey protein.
Three, grape juice is a high-GI carb which can help the creatine load into the muscle cell. However, grape juice is fructose which is a poor sugar for the body post-w/o. I would pick up some dextrose at the health food store (should be just a few bucks) and mix in with that. Plus, the creatine and dex are dry powders so you can carry them with you anywhere you go and just add cold water immediately post-w/o.
Four, you should be adding whey to the creatine + dextrose. Many studies have shouwn that whey + carbs (dex is best) dramatically help creatine loading.
Just some basic FYI to help you get better performance out of your supplements and foods.
Good luck!
As far as glutamine supplementation, I believe it depends on how much you are supplementing with a whey product. Most of these products are known to be complete - they have all the essencial aminos, including glutamine. If you are supplementing several times a day, (you especially should be pre and post w/o) then you will already have several grams of it (3,4,5+) in your diet. I suppose a larger increase of it might help in some aspects. But, I just haven’t seen the research to back this up. Still, if it ain’t broke (and it’s working) don’t fix it, right?!
[quote]retrofemme wrote:
As an absolute beginner I hope I’ll be forgiven the occasional stupid question.
Having said that…is it preferable to consume a pre/post workout drink containing creatine and l-glutamine(among other goodies) or should these supplements be taken separately?
Any input is appreciated. Thank you![/quote]
You are in the right place get educated - we are glad to have you here.
As far as specifics for you, this whole thread has several great posts for you to sink your teeth into.
I just wanted to further stress the basics - your pre and post w/o drinks (yes, they should be liquid) should be where you put most of your effort/$$! You should have a whey + dextrose shake, both pre and post w/o. The pre can be 30-40 grams of whey and 20-30 of dex. Post can look like 30-40 whey and 40-60 dex, depending on weight. Adding creatine in the post whey + dex shake is a GREAT anabolic cocktail (as you can read in my previous post).
Otherwise, keep up your questions and research and just be a student of the game. THERE ARE NO STUPID QUESTIONS, especially when you are first starting out! Fitness can be a complex and over-whelming industry. We all had to start where you did at one time! Hardly anyone on this forum (even the experts) have graduated from being a student, at least at some level.
Good luck and keep the all the SMART questions coming! 
I’ve been taking Satur8 for a while now, made some nice gains, and I take it as recommended on the package, pre-workout. It contains DiCreatine Malate. Am I messing up by taking this before my workout? Would I get more benefits from taking it after?
[quote]slimjim wrote:
I’m currently supplementing with creatine, using it post workout with my shake(usually Surge or tuna and grape juice.)[/quote]
I’ve never tried the tuna and grape juice shake. Do you toss in any spices?
[quote]whosthat wrote:
I’ve been taking Satur8 for a while now, made some nice gains, and I take it as recommended on the package, pre-workout. It contains DiCreatine Malate. Am I messing up by taking this before my workout? Would I get more benefits from taking it after?[/quote]
whosthat-
I will admit that I am not up to speed with every single creatine product out there. There are just too many. Rather, I am just plainly commenting that creatine phosphate (CP) as I know it is already stored in your body in large amounts (90-120 grams, depending on weight). Therefore, the whole theory behind creatine monohydrate supplementation is to both replenish lost creatine from the previous w/o and super-saturate your system to allow more CP stores and subsequent ATP to be made = more strength, strength endurance, and recovery.
I am reasoning that if you took creatine prior to your workout when your creatine stores were full or already saturated, you body would have no use for the creatine and would likely excrete it. I guess if it’s taken literally within minutes of starting your bout, I suppose some would get absorbed. But, in any event, you are taking creatine to get ready for the NEXT workout (replenishing the previous), not the current bout. Not to mention, is takes some time for it to be absorbed, which I believe might be longer than your window of need for the creatine during your w/o.
I’d like to hear some other educated opinions on it. I think I am pretty close to the truth here… but, if not, I’d like to know why not.
As far as I remember, glutamine is more effective if you take them in higher doses… 20g or so per day. Can’t remember whether it had any toxic effects in that consumption range, but I have been taking 10-20g per day myself and I experienced nothing. I’ve been off it for a long time, but perhaps I should hop back on the wagon. didn’t really notice much difference, but my lifting knowledge has grown tremendously since that time…
whosthat said they use Satur8…might want to check the following (from Dave Barr’s ‘Naked Truth’ article on Creatine: (Glycocyamine is one of the ingredients in Satur8 that ISS rave about in their marketing material.
“But wait, there’s MORE! Order now and you’ll get another potentially dangerous ingredient for free!” One particular supplement (“SWOLE”) combines GPA with another potentially dangerous substance known as Glycocyamine (G-amine). Sadly, G-amine (also known as guanidinoacetate) has been picked up by a few different supplement companies who obviously don’t do any research on what they’re getting people to ingest.
The reason G-amine is so popular (from a marketing standpoint, not from the consumers’) is because it is the precursor to creatine. Just like Testosterone can come from andro, creatine comes from G-amine. The theory is that you jack up G-amine levels and you get a whole bunch more creatine. The really asinine part is that, you can just directly take creatine!
We can’t take Testosterone due to legal reasons, so we have to find other ways to increase its levels-enter prohormones (among other effective things). But for our purposes, there’s no reason to worry about creatine precursors because we can just take the substance directly. The whole precursor concept is really hot when it comes to marketing to laymen, which is where this supplement takes off.
Unfortunately, consuming this chemical seems to have the undesirable effect of elevating blood levels of a substance called homocysteine, which is a very strong risk factor for cardiovascular disease (Stead et al., 2001). Cardiovascular disease is easily the number one killer in the Western World, and the last thing we need to do is increase our risk for it. Conversely, taking creatine decreases homocysteine levels, raising even more therapeutic possibilities for this supplement. As if to spit on your grave, if you’re supplementing with creatine, G-amine may also decrease its uptake by muscles (Zugno et al., 2003).
Sadly, the FDA has already spoken to the company that produces this “combo of harm,” because another of its supplements caused liver damage -you’d think that they would have learned. Unfortunately, these substances aren’t just isolated to a single product -they’re popping up in all kinds of different supplements (including some protein powders)! It’s my opinion that products containing either of these substances should be pulled off the market and the formulas changed, but the FDA can’t do anything until harm has already been done. This means that it?s up to us to spread the word about these substances. Most importantly, before you supplement with something, do your research and KNOW WHAT YOU?RE CONSUMING!