I think that AI is aways needed for TRT dosing or doing gear. T will always increase E. If your doc is not checking and managing E2 levels, get E2 blood work via LEF.org and know what you are doing.
When reversing high levels of E, changes can take a while to happen as the brain sorts it self out. In a TRT situation where E may have been up for 6 months or more, it may take 3 months for all changes to complete.
However, if libido has been down from E effects, it can show great gains in 7-10 days. That tells you that the dose is working well. If you feel that increase in libido and then it goes away, you may be an AI over responder. Get blood work or get off AI for a week then try 1/2 the dose and see if you sustain libido or go too far. I have see 2 or 3 guys who over react to anastrozole and one finds that 1/8th mg/wk works well for him. 1m/wk took him to E in the single digits and that was not good.
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
hedo wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
bigdawg011 wrote:
Headhunter, I got those levels (near identical) with 140mg per week.
Where are you injecting?
I just started dividing the dose (duh, should’ve done it sooner!). I do 200 mg in a quad on Mondays and 200 in the opposing glute on Thursday. A good friend, who knows what he’s doing, does the glute pin.
I’m starting to feel really good again. Dividing the dose rocks!!
I’m seriously considering KSman’s EOD protocol. Seriously guys, dividing the dose (which means more jabs though) is good, if you don’t mind the pins! Wow!!
HH
What size pin are you using? Did you ever try the delt? Gives you two more spots to rotate.
I like the 21s, 1.5". If I did delt, would a 1" be enough?
I draw with an 18 and have used those to inject, though those hurt more than the 21.
I don’t like the smaller gauges, like 23 or 25, because you have to fight to get the stuff in. Rainjack gave me a tip about heating up the loaded syringe on a hot pad set on low., so that helps, whenever I’ve used those.
[/quote]
Heating works great to increase flow.
A 1" is fine for a delt shot in my opinion. 21 is still big. 23 should be adequate but if the 21 isn’t bothering you no problem.
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Dedicated wrote:
Seems to me 400 mg per week is more cycle then HRT. You are going to be on top of the world for awhile, but eventually it seems like that can catch up with you in regard to high estrodial/aromatase. Keep posting your progress as it is interesting.
D
I agree completely. I am going on a low-dose protocol of Arimedex this Friday and will probably reduce the T injects slightly. As I’ve said, I’d like to be in the high-normal range, maybe 700 or 800, with E2 under control.
I am interested in HGH, as studies now show that it does NOT cause cancer (IGF-1 might) and has less sides than Test, unless overdone. HGH and a low dose T regimen…beyond sweet.
I travelled quite a ways and saw a famous TRT guy. He has DR TRT on his license plate, so I knew I’d like him.
I asked about Arimidex and he refused. He said he gets better results with weekly cyp (which he told me to cut down on) and added HCG into the mix — 2 times week.
He also said that E2 on a standard blood test is an extrapolation from women’s stats and worthless for men. He did say that there is a better test. Maybe will get Arim then.
So, I’m going to be legal for a while and see what happens. But man I love my sachets!!
Aren’t you walking around on some chicken legs with a 285 squat?
It just seems really low…
If it’s working for ya that’s cool, though.
I’m glad your quality of life is good, I’m considering looking into HRT for my old man, but I’m afraid I’ll run into the same roadblocks of uninformed doctors and docs that want to prescribe the bare minimum.
[quote]Ghost22 wrote:
Aren’t you walking around on some chicken legs with a 285 squat?
It just seems really low…
If it’s working for ya that’s cool, though.
I’m glad your quality of life is good, I’m considering looking into HRT for my old man, but I’m afraid I’ll run into the same roadblocks of uninformed doctors and docs that want to prescribe the bare minimum. [/quote]
Sorry it took so long to get back here.
I just read TCs article and am re-thinking my position.
Anyhow, I do TKD. We do hundreds of kicks on any given night. My legs are probably seriously overtrained. They’re harder than hell and veiny, esp on the calves, but I’ll never get the squat up until I retire.
[quote]e-loo wrote:
Headhunter wrote:I asked about Arimidex and he refused. He said he gets better results with weekly cyp (which he told me to cut down on) and added HCG into the mix — 2 times week.
Just curious – what is your new test cyp dosage?
–
[/quote]
150 mg. I inject HCG on the 2 days before the shot. I just read TCs banner article and now I’ve got some thinking to do.
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
I travelled quite a ways and saw a famous TRT guy. He has DR TRT on his license plate, so I knew I’d like him.
I asked about Arimidex and he refused. He said he gets better results with weekly cyp (which he told me to cut down on) and added HCG into the mix — 2 times week.
He also said that E2 on a standard blood test is an extrapolation from women’s stats and worthless for men. He did say that there is a better test. Maybe will get Arim then.
So, I’m going to be legal for a while and see what happens. But man I love my sachets!! :D[/quote]
His refusing you adex is the right thing to do. Your estrogen test was the wrong one. So until you find out an appropriate E2 number, how can he give you arimidex and properly dose it?
Hold tight, his thinking here is correct. He will probably soon give you the right E2 test when he runs new BW on his protocol.
Yes your T is high and FT is good. But E2 and its metabolites can block the action of T at the T receptors. Libido can be poor and brain fog can be there, despite the high T levels.
If you drop the T with the E levels still up, you could feel off…
Hold tight, his thinking here is correct. He will probably soon give you the right E2 test when he runs new BW on his protocol.[/quote]
I don’t see the why one needs a special E2 test. I use the LabCorp serum E2 (0-53) test. When I had E2=37 I felt like crap and had many of the sympoms of hypogonadism even with high TT and FT levels. My doctor added anastrozole and I felt WAY better. Next blood work showed that I had E2=22.
Feel like crap with symptoms of elevated E2, level of E2 obtained, used anastrozole to lower E2 felt better and the next E2 test showed that the AI worked. What else is there to need in E2 lab work?
[quote]pushharder wrote:
Is LEF’s $299 - $400 price for male hormonal blood work a good deal?
What could I expect to pay if I stop by my local general practioner’s office and he sends it off to a lab?[/quote]
When I started my TRT with my Doctor’s lab, it cost about twice as much as LEF. I pay out of pocket. I get the lab orders when they are on sale in April/May. The lab orders are good for six months, so get one and use it right away, then the second can be purchased near the end of the sale period and used 6 months later if you are into doing things every six months.
The LEF male panel checks for some things that the doctors lab orders did not cover.
Hold tight, his thinking here is correct. He will probably soon give you the right E2 test when he runs new BW on his protocol.
I don’t see the why one needs a special E2 test. I use the LabCorp serum E2 (0-53) test. When I had E2=37 I felt like crap and had many of the sympoms of hypogonadism even with high TT and FT levels. My doctor added anastrozole and I felt WAY better. Next blood work showed that I had E2=22.
Feel like crap with symptoms of elevated E2, level of E2 obtained, used anastrozole to lower E2 felt better and the next E2 test showed that the AI worked. What else is there to need in E2 lab work?[/quote]
Im not sure the exact test he had or were it was done.
But check this out, and I quote headhunter
“I’m currently injecting 400 mg/week of Testosterone Cypionate”
I am assuming his Dr is going to work first at getting that dose down, LOL. He wants to see where his E2 number is at with a lower dose of T, probably 100mg per week.
Hold tight, his thinking here is correct. He will probably soon give you the right E2 test when he runs new BW on his protocol.
I don’t see the why one needs a special E2 test. I use the LabCorp serum E2 (0-53) test. When I had E2=37 I felt like crap and had many of the sympoms of hypogonadism even with high TT and FT levels. My doctor added anastrozole and I felt WAY better. Next blood work showed that I had E2=22.
Feel like crap with symptoms of elevated E2, level of E2 obtained, used anastrozole to lower E2 felt better and the next E2 test showed that the AI worked. What else is there to need in E2 lab work?[/quote]
The Dr. told me that only the ‘sensitive’ test is for men, that the standard test is an extrapolation from data for women.
I DO feel worse now, though the HCG seems to be helping. Going from 400 to 150 cyp is not pleasant, which he told me would happen. He basically said I was a drug addict and that I had to ‘pay’ for using so much Test. I do miss the ‘top of the world’ feeling that Test (esp when I used Dbol with it) gives. He did say I’ll feel good again once I stabilize.
One thing about the guy: he is VERY sure of himself, so I’m not going to convince him of anything. He’s an Alpha Male type and, hell, for all I know he may be running a gram a week! (J/K Doc, if you’re reading this! )
HH, find out what primary organization your doc learned his Age Management Medicine from. The biggest org is Cenagenics, the second biggest A4M, and there are several others up and coming. I am studying every protocol I can get my hands on or pay for.
For example, Cenegenics docs typically will not treat E2 under 50. Some protocols not til over 55. But some of the new orgs allow wiggle room for 30-40 if patient is symptomatic. If he won’t tell you, look for plaques on his wall. Post the org and I’ll see if I can help give you ammo to get on Adex. Longshot, but I might be able to help.
BTW, I agree with KSman (what’s new?), the E2 test is the gold standard and I have not read of alternative tests of merit. Doc
I’m actually considering chucking the whole thing. In 3 years, the only time I felt any difference was when i was on the high dosages and the DBol. I’m really beginning to NOT see the point.
I may simply keep getting the Test prescription filled and simply have a nice cycle during my competitive season. That seems to be the best thing to do.
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
I’m actually considering chucking the whole thing. In 3 years, the only time I felt any difference was when i was on the high dosages and the DBol. I’m really beginning to NOT see the point.[/quote]
My doc tells me (and it seems to feel right to me) that while you can usually tell within 4 weeks whether a dosage will work, it takes about 3 months to evaluate whether a dosage change is working.
[quote]Dr.PowerClean wrote:
HH, find out what primary organization your doc learned his Age Management Medicine from. The biggest org is Cenagenics, the second biggest A4M, and there are several others up and coming. I am studying every protocol I can get my hands on or pay for.
For example, Cenegenics docs typically will not treat E2 under 50. Some protocols not til over 55. But some of the new orgs allow wiggle room for 30-40 if patient is symptomatic. If he won’t tell you, look for plaques on his wall. Post the org and I’ll see if I can help give you ammo to get on Adex. Longshot, but I might be able to help.
BTW, I agree with KSman (what’s new?), the E2 test is the gold standard and I have not read of alternative tests of merit. Doc[/quote]
My original doc only uses the Q-Estradiol test for Estrogen with a range of 0-54, and she is a big believer in the use of a-dex. The new doc is a-dex friendly too, but I will have to maneuver him for a “Q-E” test.
