[quote]rasturai wrote:
Fighters can go on strike! lol No fight? No Money!![/quote]
That would be interesting. I wonder what would happen if a few of the top guys organized a union and walked out for unfair wages. If nothing else it would be brief entertainment.
The point you’re missing is that fighter’s pay greatly increases their marketability.
UFC is a brand that is defined THROUGH its fighters.
Inter Milano or Real Madrid doesn’t pay it’s players big bucks because they are technically worth every million. No, far from it.
They pay and inflate “superstars” like Cristiano Ronaldo because then things like t-shirt sales go through the roof.
It’s capitalism at work.
I think Dana would play Moneyball with his best fighters, if there were anyone to play against. Seriously though, other than Fedor, who is going to turn down the UFC for Strikeforce, King of the Cage, WEC, or one of the other smaller promotions? Dana may not pay well, but he’s still the biggest payday in town, and he’s the only one selling enough face time to get an endorsement deal.
I was hoping the IFL would take off. I liked the concept; the league was set up to raise the pay and benefits of every fighter involved, and could have provided a stable environment for up and coming fighters until they had the name recognition to go solo. Sadly, as a business and marketing concept it didn’t work out as well, but maybe someone (Dana?) will try it again.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]rasturai wrote:
Fighters can go on strike! lol No fight? No Money!![/quote]
That would be interesting. I wonder what would happen if a few of the top guys organized a union and walked out for unfair wages. If nothing else it would be brief entertainment.[/quote]
I thought about this before, and came to the conclusion that it won’t happen as long as the UFC holds market dominance.
One guy walking out would head to SF and get decent coin. When a bunch of top dogs walk out because of pay I doubt they’d find a promotion willing to match their collective demands, the UFC is all there is. It’s one of the reasons that, though I’m not always a fan of the cards SF puts out, I pull for them; orgs like them need to chase the UFC down to keep the sport healthy.
You guys are not taking into account their sponsor checks. That is where the money is coming from.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
I believe that at some point, when the time is right, the pay will explode.
-MMA must grow a bit worldwide, perhaps get a tad more timid (ellbows etc)
-MMA being olympic would help a lot here.
-UFC must have secured global dominance
-the financial side must be secure (duh…)
-a charismatic superstar who’s marketable worldwide must appear. He shouldn’t be too much of a freak or too american (if he’s american). He must be very dominant.
If that is the case, paying him 10x more isn’t just realistic, it actually makes a lot sense for the company.
[/quote]
I don’t disagree that fighters pay will ultimately go up. However, there is no reason that they couldn’t pay more right now. They have multiple streams of revenue.
UFC fight gate
UFC PPV
UFC video Games (they sold 4 million over the past year)
UFC Spike Ultimate Fighter series
They are not just worth a great deal they are also cash rich. [/quote]
You and I have had this argument before so just edited highlights.
I disagree with you. The top level guys make very good money. Mediocre guys make more money than they ever would have as BJJ stars or wrestling coaches at highshools, or IT support guys or whatever. They also are able to make big money from opening gyms, hosting seminars, selling videos, appearing in movies etc. The low level guys make money on a par with low level boxers.
The only real difference is the insane ammounts of money guys like Mayweather, Pacman etc make. To my mind the issue is that the Boxing guys get paid too much. This makes it very hard to put the fights together that people actually want to see.
The UFC has a business model that has created money for a large number of MMA fighters, it has proved to be sustainable and is growing. Other promotions that have tried different concepts have gone bust owing money to fighters.
[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
You and I have had this argument before [/quote]
And apparently we’re going to have it again.
Not in comparison to the top level guys in just about every other sport. Why? It’s simply because Dana White and Company can get away with it at this point as they control the market. It’s business 101 - if you’re the only guy selling widgets you charge what you want. When a second widget company opens you suddenly drop your prices. Simple stuff.
As my High School Wrestling Coach used to say; that’s a piss poor argument! What would all of the mediocre guys who are making decent money in other sports be doing? Coaching Tennis or Golf at a high school? Come on Cockney…
What does that have to do with how little Dana White pays them? What you are stating is that they have the opportunity, from their own efforts to parlay that into some extra money. Still I don’t think you see many low level mma fighters able to make a dime doing seminars, or selling videos.
I am comparing what the UFC pays their fighters to every other professional sport, not just boxing. The UFC fighters are the lowest paid athletes of any major sport.
First of all the UFC business model is to rake in as much cash as possible, while doing great job in opening new markets and creating new fans. However, part of the model is to underpay fighters. They bring in revenue from many sources, here are just a few:
UFC fight gate
UFC PPV
UFC video Games (they sold 4 million over the past year)
UFC Spike Ultimate Fighter series
They pay out as little as possible to their fighters because THEY CAN. Name the top level players in any other sport and compare what they’ve made to what guys like Lesnar and GSP have made. There is no comparison. Other top level athletes are making $10m to $20m per year. Lesnar will be lucky if he clears 2 million in 2010.
I don’t mind that you think this is okay, because in a free market system it is okay. But don’t pretend that there are not reasons for this. The reason being there is no legitimate competitor who has yet risen. The ones who have tried and failed have failed for a multitude of reasons, not the least of which is inexperience in world of mma. In addition to that they need to take losses for probably 5 years in order to slowly draw the best fighters from the UFC. Trump didn’t have the stomach or (believe it or not) deep enough pockets to do this. When a serious competitor dose arise, and they eventually will, the pay will rise in the UFC, not until.
I agree man…its a professional sport…they get paid the less out of ALL sports…baseball, basketball, tennis, everything! boxers don’t get overpaid…its a hard fuckin sport…so is MMA, they should get paid a million if it’s a title fight for a championship. At least Fedor made a mill on a fight lol
[quote]rasturai wrote:
I agree man…its a professional sport…they get paid the less out of ALL sports…baseball, basketball, tennis, everything! boxers don’t get overpaid…its a hard fuckin sport…so is MMA, they should get paid a million if it’s a title fight for a championship. At least Fedor made a mill on a fight lol[/quote]
Just remember what Frank Shamrock said, a few years back when he was a real power in mma: “UFC stands for U Fight Cheap.”
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
You and I have had this argument before [/quote]
And apparently we’re going to have it again.
Not in comparison to the top level guys in just about every other sport. Why? It’s simply because Dana White and Company can get away with it at this point as they control the market. It’s business 101 - if you’re the only guy selling widgets you charge what you want. When a second widget company opens you suddenly drop your prices. Simple stuff.
As my High School Wrestling Coach used to say; that’s a piss poor argument! What would all of the mediocre guys who are making decent money in other sports be doing? Coaching Tennis or Golf at a high school? Come on Cockney…
What does that have to do with how little Dana White pays them? What you are stating is that they have the opportunity, from their own efforts to parlay that into some extra money. Still I don’t think you see many low level mma fighters able to make a dime doing seminars, or selling videos.
I am comparing what the UFC pays their fighters to every other professional sport, not just boxing. The UFC fighters are the lowest paid athletes of any major sport.
First of all the UFC business model is to rake in as much cash as possible, while doing great job in opening new markets and creating new fans. However, part of the model is to underpay fighters. They bring in revenue from many sources, here are just a few:
UFC fight gate
UFC PPV
UFC video Games (they sold 4 million over the past year)
UFC Spike Ultimate Fighter series
They pay out as little as possible to their fighters because THEY CAN. Name the top level players in any other sport and compare what they’ve made to what guys like Lesnar and GSP have made. There is no comparison. Other top level athletes are making $10m to $20m per year. Lesnar will be lucky if he clears 2 million in 2010.
I don’t mind that you think this is okay, because in a free market system it is okay. But don’t pretend that there are not reasons for this. The reason being there is no legitimate competitor who has yet risen. The ones who have tried and failed have failed for a multitude of reasons, not the least of which is inexperience in world of mma. In addition to that they need to take losses for probably 5 years in order to slowly draw the best fighters from the UFC. Trump didn’t have the stomach or (believe it or not) deep enough pockets to do this. When a serious competitor dose arise, and they eventually will, the pay will rise in the UFC, not until.
[/quote]
I am not going to go round and round on this again because, I can’t be arsed.
Just want to say. They get they sponsorships, seminars, gyms etc BECAUSE they have name recognition from the UFC.
The top guys in a lot of sports are insanely overpaid to the detriment of the sports.
[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
You and I have had this argument before [/quote]
And apparently we’re going to have it again.
Not in comparison to the top level guys in just about every other sport. Why? It’s simply because Dana White and Company can get away with it at this point as they control the market. It’s business 101 - if you’re the only guy selling widgets you charge what you want. When a second widget company opens you suddenly drop your prices. Simple stuff.
As my High School Wrestling Coach used to say; that’s a piss poor argument! What would all of the mediocre guys who are making decent money in other sports be doing? Coaching Tennis or Golf at a high school? Come on Cockney…
What does that have to do with how little Dana White pays them? What you are stating is that they have the opportunity, from their own efforts to parlay that into some extra money. Still I don’t think you see many low level mma fighters able to make a dime doing seminars, or selling videos.
I am comparing what the UFC pays their fighters to every other professional sport, not just boxing. The UFC fighters are the lowest paid athletes of any major sport.
First of all the UFC business model is to rake in as much cash as possible, while doing great job in opening new markets and creating new fans. However, part of the model is to underpay fighters. They bring in revenue from many sources, here are just a few:
UFC fight gate
UFC PPV
UFC video Games (they sold 4 million over the past year)
UFC Spike Ultimate Fighter series
They pay out as little as possible to their fighters because THEY CAN. Name the top level players in any other sport and compare what they’ve made to what guys like Lesnar and GSP have made. There is no comparison. Other top level athletes are making $10m to $20m per year. Lesnar will be lucky if he clears 2 million in 2010.
I don’t mind that you think this is okay, because in a free market system it is okay. But don’t pretend that there are not reasons for this. The reason being there is no legitimate competitor who has yet risen. The ones who have tried and failed have failed for a multitude of reasons, not the least of which is inexperience in world of mma. In addition to that they need to take losses for probably 5 years in order to slowly draw the best fighters from the UFC. Trump didn’t have the stomach or (believe it or not) deep enough pockets to do this. When a serious competitor dose arise, and they eventually will, the pay will rise in the UFC, not until.
[/quote]
I am not going to go round and round on this again because, I can’t be arsed.
Just want to say. They get they sponsorships, seminars, gyms etc BECAUSE they have name recognition from the UFC.
The top guys in a lot of sports are insanely overpaid to the detriment of the sports.[/quote]
In essence what you’re saying is the because they fought in the UFC they have gotten recognition. No one is disputing that. However, if it were not for those fighters Dana White would not be sitting down to $100 thousand dollar hands of black Jack. Also, one more thing to keep in mind, other sports have their players who also get recognition from their main sport, but actually get paid well while doing it. Tennis, basketball, hockey, boxing, golf, in fact every sport pays better than the UFC. And those participants STILL parlay their name to make additional profits in endorsements, sports wear etc.
No, the argument cannot be that UFC is akin to a waiter’s job - the real money comes in from tipping.
They should pay more.
However, let me state again that at one point in the (not to distant) future, I’d be downright idiotic for the UFC itself to underpay their fighters.
At some point they WILL inflate a few fighters with millions, just to put them on a pedestal.
MMA has to be big for that to happen, the champ must be charismatic and very dominant and the structure of making fights will have to change a bit, probably for the worse for us fans (less fights).
But it will happen. If just for the reason that otherwise MMA won’t be taken seriously.
p.s. a fighers’ union would kinda rock, but is pretty darn unrealistic.
[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
p.s. a fighers’ union would kinda rock, but is pretty darn unrealistic.[/quote]
It was because of people like Dana White that unions became so popular in the earlier part of the 20th century.
People like Dana White are the only reason MMA is a going concern in the United States today. Without him and guys like him we’d all be watching boxing, getting satellite to order K1 fights, or buying bootleg fight dvd’s from some guy at the gym. Don’t like how he does business? Find someone who can put together a better organization and keep it funded. Many have tried, one even had major network backing and put all its events on TV for free. Guess who’s still standing, Pay per View and all.
^x2
White may not be a likeable character to some, but MMA fans seem to forget that he and the Fertittas helmed a sinking ship to dock. The hate for him may stem from some of the ‘heavy-handed’ business tactics he pulls (Pride purchase, Affliction, Fitch’s likeness, low fighter pay on the undercard). I personally see no reason to concern myself with the way someone conducts his business, as though fighter pay were some extraordinary humanitarian cause (most seem to do alright for themselves either way). Watch the fights, support the sport, and things will change.
In fairness to other (failed) promotions, most didn’t have the financial backing of casino moguls. Then again a good portion of the high profile failures came with excess ambition (Affliction, EliteXC, IFL). The promotion that survived at this level (SF) tends to stick to fighters and cards within their paygrade.
on the whole thing about mma fighters getting paid jack shit… even considering their sponsorship checks/gyms etc… they’re not making much comparatively. Just look up the net worth of some of the supposedly top guys.
I think we are only repeating arguments at this point.
So let me repeat mine 
No, really, I think it’s something most here underestimate: the power of a high paid hero.
Many heroic athletes are overpaid for reasons you could call Marketing and also PR.
It’s crazy how effective that is.
Once you’re the most “expensive” athlete or among the top, EVERYONE looks at you and it’s only getting easier maintaining that aura - at least as along performance is good.
Such a guy is definitely harder to come by in MMA then in Baseball or Boxing, where every great fighter is fed cans for at least half of his matches.
To those who state that Dana White made mma, I take nothing away from the good he has done. My only beef is that he regularly underpays his fighters and that’s wrong. This will only stop when there is viable competition and he has to pay them more.
Zeb, you don’t think Zuffa will inflate a promising champion via money like they do in the NBA, FIFA etc, at some point in the future?
It certainly paid out for them.
They’ll pay more when fighters are popular enough to boots the promotions earnings above the megamillions they’re demanding. I thought maybe Fedor would be the one to do it, he was certainly playing games trying to get Dana to offer him the biggest UFC contract ever. Dana, however, doesn’t play nice and doesn’t like being strong armed. He effectively called Fedor’s skill into question, and took away the perception that the UFC was illegitimate without him.
So long as Dana picks up the most promising fighters from Strikeforce, DREAM, et al, I don’t see anyone being able to build up a reputation that will let them have leverage on the UFC. It’s going to take a rival promotion.