How is Italy enforcing that? How is Spain enforcing that? How is New York starting to enforce that? I didn’t say people aren’t going to obey lawful orders, I said people aren’t going to obey a greyed out “Don’t go out” tut-tutting from their government. And you asking how a 15-day shut down of everything would work is a literal admittance that things haven’t even been shut down yet, which makes that entire article even more silly.
It’s a six-point list of literal day-one shit that has long since been useless, since we’ve already done ALL of that stuff, nobody has listened, and my state went from 0 cases at the beginning of this month to 219 now with several deaths, in a matter of a couple weeks, all with people being told to stay home, restaurants/bars/movie theaters/gyms being closed, and social distancing signs in every business. If you genuinely think Matt Walsh’s list is the solution to this problem, I’m going to panic for sure.
I always stop short of mentioning China - I’m well aware that people are going to discount any measures from oppressive governments as bullshit. I think there are enough non-totalitarian countries doing things the right way to show that more extreme measures need to be taken, and half-measures do nothing but prolong all of this. 2 weeks of a legitimate quarantine and shut-down enforced by law enforcement and/or military, or 1+ years of people not going to any restaurants, bars, movie theaters, gyms, sports events, concerts, or public gatherings of any sort? How do people think the former is worse?
If I hear McConnell whining again, I will throw up.
DEMS (and yes…some Republicans) want this massive bill to have stipulations…mainly that 1) some of the funds will be used to DIRECTLY help the workers (you certainly help them by keeping a Company Solvent, e.g. GM and the financial institutions of the last crisis). and 2) the vast majority is not used for things like stock buy-backs and huge executive bonuses.
I know things may be more complex than this…so I am open to counter-arguments. But the WHOLE Congress needs get their shit together and come to an agreement…and soon.
One of the Obama Administration’s point men with the last crisis said (on “60-minutes”) that the biggest “mistake” that was made was to let far too many workers be laid off. (some are inevitable). When that happens; it can take years for a substantial recovery. Jobs return VERY slowly in many cases.
I’m also leaning away from mentioning Dems vs Republicans here, since I think all of them dumped stocks in an insider trading scheme to save themselves. It just sucks that McConnell and Mnuchin are in control of this, but I can’t really think of many senators or representatives I’d actually want to control this, haha. But yes - we can’t just throw money at big companies, especially with so many of the people in a position to vote these bills in having so much money invested in the same companies they’re bailing out.
I live in upstate NY. I went to Wal-Mart, the bank and Harbor Freight today. Im going fishing tomorrow. Im honestly not sure what your getting at. Is NY’s shutdown what you envision for the whole country or something more strict. Which again begs the question, how would you enforce it?
Edit: sorry just saw your last post. Military enforcement? That would get interesting really quick.
“On Monday, Crenshaw retweeted a thread by journalist Rachel Bovard, who obtained an early copy of the 1,400-page Pelosi bill, that highlights some of the new Democratic bill’s provisions, including bailing out the post office, mandating “risk limiting audits” of elections, as well as same-day voter registration, and other non-crisis-related, long-time Democrat wishlist items, among them more strict fuel emissions guidelines for airlines, wind and solar tax credits, and collective bargaining powers for unions.”
I was referring to NYC. Would’ve thought that’d be obvious. And why are you asking ME how I’d shut it down? Do I have extensive knowledge of government oversight or martial law protocols? I’m not entirely sure how the logistics of it would work, but I know that most places are not acting in the way that NYC are due to population density, obviously. I just know that the article you posted essentially relied on the honor system for people not to make bad decisions.
Which begs the question, since you seem to be so fond of asking me how I would get people to stop going out, are you actually disagreeing with me that just telling people to not do dumb things is enough for them to not do dumb things? Since YOU believe that that article’s list made sense, why would military/law enforcement be ineffective?
The best part about this, is everyone’s already been told not to go out unnecessarily.
And they are.
So you asking pointed questions to poke holes in my theory is silly, because my ‘theory’ that people don’t do the right thing if it inconveniences them in the slightest, isn’t a theory, it’s just fact, and we’ve already been watching that unfold.
Do you actually have a rebuttal to any of the points I made about that article besides “well what would YOU do?”
Bailing out the post office seems legit. And actions taken to ensure elections aren’t affected by the virus and related shit show seem legit, especially with a presidential election coming up.
GOP gets to bailout big business buddies with this bill, Dems attach programs to help poor/disenfranchised. Seems like compromise. Trickle down - grow from the bottom… Meet in the middle?
Giving gobs of taxpayer money to big businesses without setting up any type of structure for what they do with it is absolutely insane. Previous bailouts have shown that.
Fuck Democrats and Republicans who don’t put any limitations on what can be done with that money. I will support anyone blocking legislation until it has explicit detail about how the money will go towards jobs and wages.
Well I didn’t say I entirely agree with the article but some of it definitely. Im just curious why dying from bullets is better than virus. A military enforced shutdown of the US would come to that, quickly.
What is my suggestion? Protect those at risk and everyone else life as usual. A full shutdown would be worse than letting it spread. But to weigh that we need numbers that we won’t ever really get. Most wont get tested or treated, skewing everything.
Long story short, you dont want martial law and I can’t even believe how many people are begging for it. Same as it ever was “please keep us safe, the boogey man is coming.” This is post 9/11 level hysteria. Let’s get patriot act 2 drafted quickly.
Completely agree. Ban any stock repurchasing using this cash and tax any increase in CEO salary and bonus at close to 100%.
This money must be used to help people who have been forced not to work by the shut down. If they push ahead with anything other than that, they should expect Washington to be burnt to the ground.
We Brits have some expertise at that, if the plebs need it.
You should live in NY. All we do is piss away tax money to big business. Not too far from me is a company that recieved 600 million dollars of NY state tax money. Not a tax credit, a legit grant of 600 million.
How do you protect those at risk? What percentage of the US population do you suppose is “at risk”? How long should they be protected?
Conservatively 30% of the population has an identified known risk. Probably need to ensure their family andor caretakers also be protected, right? Pushing 40% now, conservatively.
Now, the other healthy 60%. At its peak, 30-40% of the population would be infected (73.5 million). 2-5% will need hospitalization (1.5 million @2%). There are 170,000 ventilators in the US. So 11% of people in need, get one. Fucking yikes.
That is why we are flattening the curve with economy killing measures.
This is hyperbole. First off I don’t see a military enforced shutdown as something that is being seriously considered at this point (forgive me if someone linked an article in here I missed). Second off even if that happen we have no idea how people would respond. Someone said if we shut certain things down there would be mass riots. Many places have already done that to an extent and we aren’t seeing that at this point. A few people fighting over toilet paper or some shit. Crime is down.
People not at risk are still risks to people at risk. And how long does the protection last for a pretty sizeable portion of our population? Certainly enough to have a pretty crappy effect on our economy by itself, given how long it could run or how many waves could come.
So, again, more people are dying of bullets in Italy than the virus? This is a big assumption you’re just laying down as foundation for your argument. Still though - I can’t say you’re wrong that it could turn nasty. Definitely could.
Again, what are you basing this assumption off of? That statement is a big part of what’s been discussed thus far in this thread, but I’d say it’s still on the table.
To be clear: I have a 3 and a 4 year old (both boys) and while I sometimes wish I worked less so I could spend more time with them, I do not want to spend 15 days locked in a house with my fucking children. If there are parents here who want to, power to them, but that’s a hard no from me. None of us are particularly at risk for the virus either - all healthy, exercise, in good shape, and oldest in household is 36. No grandparents, one parent who, despite being 65, is in PHENOMENAL shape and ran a half marathon not too long ago. I don’t have much confidence that my corporation company would pay me either. I’m kind of advocating for something that would totally fuck me over because I genuinely believe we need stricter rules for a shorter period of time rather than more stringent ones for a longer period of time. I just know that what we’ve been going through isn’t a shutdown. We barely closed things down in terms of the whole country, and we’re already discussing opening the floodgates when it’s still spreading faster than we can work to prepare for it in the places that haven’t gotten it yet.
A completely unregulated derivatives market was a huge issue in the last crash. AIG had 400 employees collectively making 3.5 billion over seven years who needed bailed out. Then when we went to work on legislation to say how can we prevent this from happening again we let those fuckers have a huge hand in what we did. And we let them say “you can’t tie our hands it will hurt people!”
We got sold crack by a dealer, spent money on rehab, then got out and made a relapse plan with the crack dealer involved in crafting it.
With all respect, as you’ve been around for a long time and I’ve enjoyed you’re posts through the years, “business as usual” is not a sane plan. This is not going away, and it’s not likely to be affected by the seasonal change like normal flu.
7 days ago we had less than 5,000 confirmed cases in the US. Today we have over 41,000 confirmed cases. That’s 10x increase in 7 days. 10x of 41,000 by next week, 10x of 410,000… Come on man. You cannot do business as usual here.
And while a 1.5% mortality rate is not bad, 1.5% of say 10,000,000 people is still a shitload of people dead.
