most pre existing conditions are stuff like diabetes and high pressure, that are extremely common as people age and that normally require some mild medication for people to live on for years;
-as opposed to other countries, Italy has been counting deaths that include those with pre existing conditions for the simple fact that… it makes most sense. We too would have a 0,something% death rate if we only counted people with no other patologies, but the point is… those patologies are so common and the virus is obviously devastating for those who have them, that it would be dumb to use a microscopic approach, it underestimates how effective this thing is. The province I live in had more deaths in these 2 weeks than the number of deaths it usually has in months.
Kinda hard to argue death rate when coffins are literally amassed. Then again, we might argue that the average age of deaths is high, but I guess most people have parents they care for and wouldn’t want them to die alone in a Covid hospital, without getting to see them and without any funeral;
-someone already mentioned, but obesity is nowhere near as close to the US in Europe. I would be worried for correlated diseases (like, diabetes, heart weakness and such) in relatively young obese people, which I think is a relevant number in the US. Take this bit for what it is;
-one of our latest deaths is a 32yo guy. Other than that, being unconscious for days with a tube down your throat isn’t exactly a walk in the park, and the chinese are now checking healed people, it’s possible that this thing has a long term effect on reducing lung capacity since there’s a % of people who recovered who still has breathing difficulties and gets out of breath very quickly, is often tired and so on. There’s also the chance that asymptomatics DO have lungs fibrosis running and damaged lungs, has yet to be confirmed tho
Isn’t that the most relevant statistic? You seem to like arguing just for the sake of arguing. I already know you agree with everything the government is doing so unless you have something new to add there is no need for a response.
People should just stop bickering over petty bullshit. And I don’t get why nobody cares about the economy, the whole system is on the brink of collapse and everything needs a bailout. That can lead to more shit than this virus.
No one knows the perfect thing to do. We’ve never had something like this.
You may be right. No idea. I would say at this point we don’t even know what health issues is guaranteed to put one at risk. If it was that simple I would be in full agreement. No one knows for sure if we’re doing the right thing. This would have economic effects no matter what we did. What you’re saying just has the potential for much much worse economic effects if it doesn’t go well.
Again I think it’s very possible we look back and say well we went too far and didn’t need to do all that. But it seems like that is a much better risk than saying we didn’t do enough and now look what happened.
No one is saying don’t think for yourself. No one is saying they know for absolute certainty what would happen if we did something different. What people are saying is it’s going to be way easier to bounce back if we overreact than take it as serious as possible at this specific moment in time. Again armed with the knowledge of what we know now. We can Monday morning quarterback the thing later. Right now we’re calling timeout to try and prevent being down by just two touchdowns. With the idea that if we don’t we may be down 50 touchdowns.
Economic pain is happening either way. It’s just going to be way easier to come back from one scenario than the other.
Any substantiation on this Alex? I’m not trying to win a stupid argument but all I’ve heard is “underlying health issues”. I’m genuinely interested to hear. The only thing I’ve heard offered is a 45 year old man died from it who had Motor Neurone Disease. Hawking had that for over 40 years.
The fact that Italy has such a wide spread outbreak surprises me not at all. It’s their culture. They are very hand-sy folks and do not regard personal space. That’s not a slight, it’s just the way it is there.
There are many good things that come out of that kind of friendliness, but virus protection isn’t one of them.
Not sort. It is the epicenter. And their nastiness with their eating habits have caused the last 3 epidemics world wide.
I don’t care what they eat, but keep your diseases to yourself. I hope that bat was delicious, because it put the whole world in some serious hurt.
I haven’t been this pissed off since the Syrian “Red Line”. China put the world in danger, again and it’s time they reap the whirlwind. #CHINAISASSHOLE
I actually think the other path is by far the most dangerous one. This one gives us a better chance. And one economist saying that doesn’t change my mind. I’ll stick with what the majority of the medical community is saying. If we’re going to be wrong let’s be wrong in the way that has the best potential for comeback.
That’s true, and yet we didn’t have any super spreader like S.Korea had for example. You’re grossly underestimating how easily this virus spreads. You don’t need to be all touchy, there are people who touch other people for a living… like, medics, healthcare workers. One of the factors that helped the outbreak here is that people rushed to the hospitals when they (thought they) had symptoms, and hospitals became one of the sources of outbreak, for example.
Like people panic buying. Like people still gathering for religious functions. Like allowing <10 people bbqs.
Shaking hands and hugging is far low on the list of hazardous behaviours here.
The lack of personal space means that people are breathing on you and flinging little droplets of spit when they talk. And you can get it from surfaces, hands and all sorts of stuff. That’s the way Italy is. I don’t get the criticism here. We’re doing “social distancing” for a reason. In Italy, by default, people are much closer to you. They get in your face, they breath on you, that’s a nightmare for a virus like this.
I’m not joking. 129 doctors and nurses are currently in isolation because of one imbecile. Also, now it’s a great time to shut down multiple hospital wards.
Not to mention several patients that are 80+ also tested positive, so they’re most likely done.
But hey, fresh powder and blue skies - can’t miss that.
A similar story with the Italian “patient one” - “I have a heavily pregnant wife at home but my friend just flew back from China that is under lockdown due to a deadly virus - better have lunch with him as soon as possible so that he can tell about the virus face to face”