Not my specialty, but I think you are rightâan immunocompromised host is a key element in the development of escape variants.
This is correct.
You might want to go back and read through your posts again because I donât know how anyone can read them and not come to the conclusion that you are anti vax.
I mean Iâm not here to fight you on whether you consider yourself for or against, but your postings in here donât track with what youâve said. Itâs an odd thing to clarify that you arenât after calling stuff snake oil and arguing against them for multiple posts.
But whatever and if I remember right English is not your first language? Still the logic behind can still get virus and can still die means they donât work is very very poor.
As best as I can remember they were never touted as being 100% effective? Very few preventative treatments in medicine are 100% effective anyways. Doesnât make them garbage.
I see this brought up a lot by those who are anti vax. Hence my earlier post in the stupid thread where (paraphrasing) anti vax people on Facebook were sharing an image that showed the vast majority of deaths were people who werenât vaccinated and saying âsee you can die from it even if vaccinatedâ despite the image giving clear proof it was completely counter to their arguments.
And I again will say Iâm not against Ivermectin or any other treatment option. More weapons is better off. However it seems that the evidence for it at this point isnât nearly as strong as the evidence for vaccination? Although I must admit Iâm certainly not staying up to date on everything Ivermectin in the least bit. The overwhelming amount of stuff Iâve read says needs more data. Which does not mean doesnât work.
I also think itâs very crappy if the message has become vaccines donât work and Ivermectin does among the anti vax crowd. Because they are likely not bashing that on science. They are using a drug not approved for it and some are poisoning themselves. Meanwhile things approved for it that have been proven to help are being ignored as these people have already made up their mind that they donât work because of politics and not science.
I got the Moderna. the reason is, there is this huge global pandemic, and of all the needed pharmaceutical capacity some of it is producing mRNA, so I just accepted that that was what they were going to give me.
Lmao. I am not reckless like Obama. Do not worry. There are antibody tests, you can check if you ever got it.
I think heâs saying vaccines are supposed to prevent infections and transmission, not just reduce symptoms and deaths. To be honest, the data for the former against delta has been quite disappointing.
Where I live, real anti-vaxxers have generally written off ivermectin. Other than a pretty vocal minority, most of them think the idea of using it is dumber than getting the vaccines.
Vaccine hesitant people here are generally afraid of the mRNA ones and since neither AZ nor J&J have been brought in, lots are opting for the China ones instead or seeking alternatives which include ivermectin. Others are waiting for the non-mRNA one from the US.
you sir get it.
So it is pretty easy to say vaccines can be the snake oil as well, just as you can say it about ivermektin.
Vaccines are threatment. We need more threatment and better threatment. They are not the end game for the pandemic. Delta shows it, the next mutation will expose it.
We need rational approach. I am not smart enough to fix a pandemic. I just dont like where it goes. I think I have debated with most of you climate change. I am a denier, but not really. I do not like mandates, taxes and my life ruined because government likes an idea.
Instead of mandating vaccines on work place, what about mandating home work where it is possible? Just as an easier solution without making a choice for the regular person.
What is this hate between us? For vaccines? I think we are pretty reasonable people in the forum and if someone has covid they will stay home. Most of us are also healthy adults with self care standarts and love for sports.
Yet I see online vaccinated people hating on unaccinated. On top of that supporting an authoritarian decision of the American government. I come from Bulgaria, large town about 90000 people. Even at my local grocerie store where people from the neihbourhood gather to have morning coffee before work, were commenting on vaccine mandates in US. Regular tradesmen were discussing mandates and were saying if it happens in America it will come to Europe.
No, that would be a false equivalency. The vaccines have been proven to be highly effective at preventing severe illness and deaths and allow us to accept covid as endemic as long as the vaccination rate is high enough. They substantially slow the rate of mutations, which lessens the chance of a worse strain than delta emerging before medical science can catch up:
https://www.duke-nus.edu.sg/allnews/media-releases/new-study-boosts-hopes-for-a-broad-vaccine
There is simply no comparison with ivermectin at this time.
People are upset at real anti-vaxxers. Anti-vaxxers are a fucked up bunch of asswipes who just wonât stop vocally denouncing the vaccines on social media and spreading fake news about them where I live. The promotion of ivermectin in some countries amongst them is incidental. It could be any other drug.
I might be sympathetic if they were reacting against the introduction of vaccine passports. But they were already like this when the vaccines were first available. I recently had to extract data from a large local forum (for other reasons) but what I read from them sickened me to the core. I used to rely on that forum to get compilations of links to news on covid from various news sites that some nice fellows would post so I didnât have to go read every news site individually but the fucking anti-vaxxers took over.
Also, you wrote âvaccines cause mutationsâ lol. English isnât my first language either so I kinda understood that you were probably saying âvaccines donât prevent mutations because they donât prevent infectionsâ, which, either way would be false.
This graph explains pretty much everything youâve posted in this thread.
Few things are worse on this planet that conclusions reached by people in the Balkans discussing pressing world issues in front of their grocery shop. Iâm being completely serious.
A quick look at the charts shows the death toll is a little over 3.5% and since delta was only confirmed to be the dominant strain in mid August, thereâs a high probability that cases will increase exponentially in the coming weeks unless the number cases for previous waves were highly underreported (which explains the high death rate) and a large amount of people in the population already have natural immunity.
EDIT:
Shit, I went and did some quick calculations and the death rate for the last month has been around 5%.
But Iâm also not sure how âdeaths due to covidâ are classified there. The previous guideline from the WHO was something like âcases where there was a clear chain of causation resulting in patients dying from pneumonia, respiratory symptoms or complications during pregnancyâ. Several countries expanded this to stuff like âno clear alternative cause of death that is not related to COVID-19 infectionâ.
Just checking on your in laws. My dad (vaccinated) caught covid at a convention, got fever and thought he originally had a summer cold of symptoms. Seemed to get over it in about 10 days. 5 dqys of tested results are required before any serious medical care, unless one is unable to breathe. East Texas currently leading state in per capita cases, but rednecks still wonât get shots, after attending funerals. Sigh.
Treco - Iâm glad your Dad is OK now. Are you saying that you have to have 5 days of positive test results before you can get medical care?
Theyâre doing relatively ok. MIL has some long covid symptoms, but overall theyâre managing.
I guy I trained BJJ with died last week - early forties, three kids, unvaccinated. He was a good guy and he fell down the IVM rabbit hole through MMA forums and JRE podcasts - hence my âevil dwarfâ comments above.
My explanation was a bit uneven.
If you test positive, but seem mild enough to not be hospitalized, it was a 5 day period before you could get the infusion cocktail. My dad was prescribed ivermectin along with the standard zinc, vitamin d etc by MD.
I called him and said FDA said stop ivermectin immediately. He had taken human dosage a couple of days but ceased.
Did anyone not instinctively know this?
Edit: disclaimer: Itâs safer to just attribute all deaths and hospitalizations to COVID, because we know our truth.
Maybe youâre unaware of this. Many Americans love browbeating, punching down on, bullying, and controlling other Americans.
Fortunately for us, we usually have enough stubborn bastards around willing to piss people off and make a stink about it to eventually put a stop the the most egregious behavior among us.
EventuallyâŠ
âThe study did run through June 30, however, when the Delta wave was about to break, and it did not find that the proportion of patients with moderate to severe respiratory distress was trending upward at the end of the observation period.â
You had 17,000 cases on June 30 and almost a 50% full vaccination rate (Iâm not confident of the accuracy of the the vaccination rate chart on google so Iâm just throwing out a ballpark figure).
If the claim that >99% of deaths are amongst the unvaccinated is accurate, the current death rate looks really fucking bad for them. Iâm guessing the total cases are way undercounted because more vaccinated people with infections are asymptomatic.
In the âleakedâ CDC report, even they estimated the amount of cases of delta were undercounted by 50% so I donât think itâs that bad.
EDIT:
Sorry, had a brain fart. The figure would look even worse for unvaccinated people.
What does supposed to even mean in this context?