Coronavirus - What Happened?

This is a really good post and one reason I think people like ActivitiesGuy have the jobs they have lol. I do think that the data comparison is meaningful, but a) it has to be careful and b) you have to dig down enough to figure out how to match apples to apples–different reporting practices are confounding factors for many nation comparisons. Economic “freedom” and crime statistics are two other big areas that come to mind with the same difficulties.

I think a quick and dirty comparison is of some use as a way to surveil the big picture and start to ask questions about WHY the stats are different from country to country, but it’s of very limited use for rigorous comparison purposes. You mentioned a number of things that are big factors, which people need to understand (density and population size, use of public transportation or driving private vehicles, etc.)

I really love to see people leading from the front.

It’s 3.5 or bust for me. Not that 5e is bad…

But I like my math :joy:

Good gracious that is a beautiful spot for a ceremony, and with history galore. Good choice.

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Modeling and extrapolating to population level from something like this is quite difficult. Not to throw their conclusions under the bus, because this is important work to be doing, and as quickly as we can.

Just saying, there will most likely be a wide range of prevalence reported with further studies by other groups, and a fierce academic “fight” over which results are more likely.

It’s also possible that the validity of the serology tests they used are not truly known via independent scrutiny. I don’t know enough about the tests they used to have a good idea, but it is the Wild West for these currently.

As noted earlier, Dr. Bhattacharya is doing a nationwide one with the help of MLB.

I also remember someone citing an Oxford (strictly?) modeling study weeks ago postulating a similar outcome, which was quickly shouted down. Now, the first indications using actual data are also pointing in that direction.

I’m a simple man. I actually believe that where there’s smoke, there’s fire.

Please post these if you see them. It would be a welcome relief from all the “opinion pieces” and “anecdotal evidence” that seem to be so much more well received here.

The stock market posted another strong performance on Friday, with the Dow Jones Industrial Average rising more than seven hundred points. It has now regained about half of the losses it suffered between late February and late March, as the death toll from the coronavirus mounted and great swaths of the economy were closed down. Indeed, the market is only about eighteen per cent below its all-time peak, which came on February 12th.

Investors were reacting to some encouraging news about a possible treatment for people hospitalized with covid -19 and to the prospect of parts of the economy reopening soon. On Friday, Texas announced the lifting of some restrictions, and Michigan’s governor, Gretchen Whitmer, expressed the hope that some of her state’s economy could “re-engage” as early as May 1st. These developments came a day after the White House released a set of guidelines for reopening the economy, which envisage a three-stage process, with states moving from one stage to the next as they meet various “gating criteria” related to the incidence of the virus, testing capacity, and hospital capacity.

Within the past week, the virus claimed roughly two thousand lives a day in the United States. Within one twenty-four-hour period, more than forty-five hundred people had died from covid -19 and the President’s medical advisers have acknowledged that any reversal of the shutdowns, even a limited one, will be risky. Some Asian territories that seemed to have the virus under control, including Japan, Hong Kong, and Singapore, recently experienced a second wave of infections. The possibility of something similar happening here surely explains why Trump, in a conference call with governors on Thursday, said, “You are going to be calling your own shots.” “Trump’s the-buck-stops-with-the-states posture is largely designed to shield himself from blame should there be new outbreaks after states reopen or for other problems,” the Washington Post reported, citing current and former Administration officials who have been involved in the crisis response.

Despite a month of shutdowns and distancing measures, the virus hasn’t stopped spreading, but the rate of new infections has gone down. At a national level, based on figures from the Covid Tracking Project, the number of cases is rising by about 4.7 per cent, which is down from about 7.5 per cent a week ago. Ian Shepherdson, the founder of Pantheon Macroeconomics, has been looking at what’s happening in other countries, too. In the past week or so, Germany, Spain, and Italy have announced limited steps to reopen stores and other businesses. These countries waited until the daily new infection rate had fallen to a bit below the current U.S. level, Shepherdson said. By this time next week, the U.S. rate may well have closed that gap.

In absolute terms, however, the number of new infections is still much higher in the United States, because the over-all number of cases is so large. So far, most governors, Republican and Democrat, have resisted the idea of lifting stay-at-home orders. But the economic cost of the shutdown is rising—in the past four weeks, more than twenty-two million Americans have lost their jobs or been furloughed, figures released on Thursday showed. And in some Democrat-run states, conservative protesters have staged demonstrations against the restrictions, with Trump openly egging them on.

The big question is what will happen if some businesses do start to reopen. Shepherdson said that the outlook in the United States is complicated by a pattern of infection that varies greatly across regions and states. “If you are in a state that has done well, the danger is that if you open up you could get flooded by people from next door,” he said. He cited the experience of Rhode Island, which is situated between two hot spots—New York and Boston—and where the number of cases is still rising by about nine per cent a day.

Practically everybody agrees that comprehensive testing will be vital going forward. For example, in “National Coronavirus Response: A Road Map to Reopening,” released at the end of March, the American Enterprise Institute, a conservative think tank that carries influence at the White House, said that we need “better data to identify areas of spread and the rate of exposure and immunity in the population.” During Thursday’s briefing about the Administration’s new guidelines, Dr. Deborah Birx, the coördinator of the White House’s virus-response task force, claimed that the necessary data would be available from three different sources: test results from people exhibiting covid -19-like symptoms; reports of influenza-like symptoms across the country; and expanded “sentinel surveillance”—i.e., testing of people in high-risk areas, such as indigenous communities, nursing homes, and “inner-city federal clinics.” Right now, about a hundred and twenty-five thousand tests are being carried out each day. By the end of April, the U.S. will have administered more than five million tests in total, Vice-President Mike Pence said at Thursday’s briefing.

But many governors, medical experts, business leaders, and economists are highly skeptical about the extent of testing, which is still largely confined to people who have already developed symptoms. The key to keeping down the infection rate is locating and isolating asymptomatic carriers and then doing contact tracing.

“The reality is we are not even testing health-care workers,” Paul Romer, a Nobel-winning economist who is a professor at New York University, told me on Friday. “We need to be testing all of them regularly, and many others, too. Trump’s medical advisers are stuck with blinkers on. They are not stepping back and looking at the big picture.’’ In Romer’s view, this involves creating a public-health strategy that can be sustained for a year or eighteen months, until a vaccine is developed. The only available options, he said, are continued shutdowns or a massive expansion of testing to find and isolate asymptomatic carriers before they spread the disease. Romer, who served as the chief economist at the World Bank from 2016 to 2018, is calling for at least ten million tests per day , and ideally as many as twenty million or thirty million.

Absent large-scale testing, the outlook is grim, he said. “As soon as we stop the shutdowns, we’ll go right back to exponential growth. It won’t even help us much if we get down to very low rates of infection first, because exponential growth is so fast you get right back there very quickly.” Given the limits to testing capacity and the Trump Administration’s refusal to take the lead in this area, Romer suggested that the most likely outcome is a series of reopenings and renewed shutdowns, as the infection rate rebounds. “From an economic perspective, that is almost as bad as a permanent shutdown,” he said. “Nobody is going to invest. Nobody is going to reopen a restaurant.”

Not everybody agrees with that analysis, of course. But there is general agreement among economists that even under optimistic scenarios, where the rate of infection doesn’t shoot back up immediately, restoring the economy to health is going to be an extended and difficult task. “Absent a vaccine or treatment breakthrough, reopening will be gradual,” the economists at Goldman Sachs wrote this week. “Several other countries have taken steps toward reopening. We see three lessons from their experiences. First, initial reopening timelines often prove too optimistic. Second, even countries at the forefront of reopening have gradual and conservative plans. Third, recovery is easier and quicker in manufacturing and construction than in consumer services.”

Today’s American economy is predominantly a service economy, of course. Private-service industries, such as retail, finance, lodging, entertainment, and restaurants, contribute close to seventy per cent of the gross domestic product. Even if some restaurants do defy Romer’s prediction and reopen, they will have to meet social-distancing requirements, which will reduce their capacity. The same goes for airlines, hotels, gyms, and many other businesses. “No amount of stimulus spending is going to change those realities,” Shepherdson said. He is predicting that G.D.P. will plummet at an annualized rate of thirty per cent in the April-to-June quarter, before rebounding somewhat, but not fully, in the second half of the year. For 2020 as a whole, Goldman Sachs is predicting that G.D.P. will decline by more than five per cent. That would be the biggest fall since the aftermath of the Second World War.

For now, the stock market is focussing on the upside. Shepherdson said that institutional investors, whose performance is often measured against the market, can’t afford to miss out on a rebound, and they are placing a great deal of faith in the Federal Reserve. “If you are out of the market now, you are fighting against the momentum, you are fighting the stimulus, and you are fighting the Fed,” he said. “The only thing you have going for you is the truth—the recovery is going to be very slow, and on the virus front there are going to be relapses.”

I don’t believe I shouted it down, and I don’t believe I shouted down this last link either. I merely added some other information.

I’m not actively looking for them, but I will if I do

Food can’t get sick.

I hope nobody finds it gauche that I post this, but somewhere I think I wondered what prostitutes are going to do to ride out the pandemic. This story just appeared:

Canada does have the Canadian Emergency Response benefit, but undocumented income doesn’t allow one to qualify. Thus many are dirt broke.

As to Canada’s laws, in 2014 the former Harper government brought in legislation that is similar to Sweden’s. The actual prostitute isn’t directly prosecuted, but the customer is. Still, there are all kinds of limitations to what the prostitutes can and can’t do, such that it isn’t really workable for them. (I think I heard a challenge to the law happened in court, but I forget the outcome).

It turns out that some are going against social distancing and working anyway.

That’s fair, it’s the system my group feels comfortable playing. I’ve played 5 and pathfinder, but I’m open to other systems tbh, I’m not a system zealot.

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Was ride out intentional?

I think examining all aspects of how people are impacted makes sense.

Just busting your chops friend!

I’ve played 2, 3, 3.5 (mostly), 4, pathfinder. I’m not old enough to remember 2 but I have gamed with a couple of OGs who go aaaaallll the way back and we did a fair amount of retro quests

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Of course I knew that! I’d never expect anything other than charity from yourself.

I’d like to try the OG stuff, but man, I’ve heard it’s so different I may as well be playing a separate game.

I want to try GRUPS too, but I’ve heard it is crazy complicated.

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Old white men causing trouble as usual.

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We just can’t help ourselves. I don’t get out of bed for less than a global pandemic to maintain the hierarchy.

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It’s the only time I don’t social distance…

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The “No Mask” Club. I hope restrictions on businesses are soon lifted, but I hope people are encouraged(without legal consequences) to remain sheltered-in-place and wearing masks when out. I’ve never seen a better indicator that someone is an idiot(of course, there are going to be some at-risk folks that get lumped in with idiots…but profiling can not be 100%).

A twitter thread about the Anti-Mask League of San Francisco. In 1919.

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Like I said, I hope the people doing so continue to do so.

Anyone got a spare supertanker lying around? They’ll pay us 30 dollars a barrel to take it away :joy:.

Now, when you pour crude into a barrel, you lower the value of the barrel.

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2020: the year when buying a barrel of oil paid more than the minimum hourly wage.