I can’t believe everyone is missing one of the most important parts of training, the abs. A tree with a weak trunk soon becomes a stump.
Amen. I couldn’t believe it when some idiot at the gym (this was 5-6 years ago) told me not to do sidebends because I’d get a “blocky” waist. What a pansy. I now pride myself on being able to do 8 rep sidebends with bodyweight, as well as 1-arm snatches, cleans, and push presses, all lifts impossible without strong midsection/obliques.
Kato, could you give us some principles to use when designing an ab circuit? Are they done in a complex(circuit-type fashion)? Some examples wouldn’t hurt, thanks in advance.
Good point Kato. It seems as though Coach Davies enjoys a variety of ab exercises using the medicine ball. Any other thoughts or comments on ab/core training? And what size medicine ball should we use? Thank you!
Why does ab training have to be so complicated? It’s not. It’s just more muscle. Weighted situps or cruches, sidebends, and any kind of non-symetrical overhead lift (bent press, 1-arm presses, cleans, snatches) will do it. Hard and heavy. 150 crunches won’t do anything. 10 crunches with a 150lbs dumbbell will.
greg, i am afraid you are wrong. first, 10 heavy reps may help some, but not others. Go back to the charlie francis articles. Ben Johnson did hundreds of lightweight reps in his sets. training is ALWAYS relative to your goal. Additionally, i would say that perhaps it is not the abs that are overlooked but the erectors of the lowerback.
Greg
You are wrong. Our athletes do thousands of crunches and chinees. Muscles used for stability or slow twitch muscles need to be trained both with mass volume and heavy weight. We train our abs every day all day. Our base exercise is a chinee. This description is for Kelly on another thread.Lay on the ground. Legs flat, arms on the side. Bring on knee and your and torso together. And return them to the starting position. Next, bring the other knee and your torso together. Do this as fast as you can but in a controlled fashion for 30 seconds. Then rest for 30 seconds. Try this for 3 reps. The Renegade Alpha program (the basic program that all of our athletes start with) calls for Chinees on a daily basis. My athletes can do this workout for 10 minutes. As for in the weight room, try bench, squatting or deadlifts with more weight on one side. This blows everyone away in a gym. They will rush over to stop you our try to add weight. You tell them you want it that way. Now you are a Renegade.
Fine, stay with the science fiction. Reminds me of these 500lbs benchers who can’t press a 200lbs sandbag overhead because they spend their days training on their back.
Interresting. I like the idea of assymetrical squats or DL, but I still think it’s better to just do overhead lifts with 1 arm. How much weight difference are we talking about here? Say with 4 plates (180) on 1 side, how much weight on other side? As for the 1000s of crunches, I still think time could be more valuably spent elsewhere. I’d say those heavy squats and DLs do a lot more for trunk development than those crunches with no weight.
Greg
You would be surprized what the crunches can do. When you start adding different angles and positions and turn it into a complex,it is a killer. We have many killer ab complexes that we employ. Again, we want to build volume in the stabilizing areas and “grease to groove”, as Pavel says, for that portion of our body. For the unbalanced weights, all you need is a 5-15 lb difference. 1 Arm deadlifts and 1 leg deadlifts are nice also.
Greg-great point regarding the bench pressers and sandbag lifts. I should point out that we utilize a wide hybrid of movments you mentioned but also a variety of volume abdominal work. I know this will set off the “overtraining” types but are abs get it from every angle.In faith, Coach Davies
can u please give a few examples of ur core complexes?
Try this for starters. This is our Crunch circuit:do ten of the following with no rest for 3 sets
1.straight leg crunches
2.Bent knee/feet on floor crunches
3.Bent knee/ feet off floor crunches
4.Legs Straight in the air crunches
5.Straight legs split-reaching through the middle crunches
6.Bent knee-folded over oblique crunches(right)
7.Bent knee-folded over oblique crunches(left)
repeat
Good Luck
Hey Irontank - I was wondering where you went, we were talking 'ball then lost track of you. I know Kato will respond later, but we use a variety of high repetition movments in which the positioning of the legs differ. In addition we use a few heavy weight exercises besides the core strengthening movements that Greg had noted. Still would like to give you some ideas with 'ball. In faith, Coach Davies
Thanks coach davies and kato…anything u can toss my way would be great…i picked up a jump rope, but i can’t go for 3 mins straight yet, i will keep working on it till i can, but for now i will have to modify your warm-up to only a min or two of jump roping…i am trying to get access to the one-man sled for some spp, but i think my coach is alittle reluctant since i would be wearing any pads and what not…u mentioned in one of ur post that u and Pavel got into a discussion on how linemen should train, I would love to hear what both of ur thoughts on it are (I play tackle both ways and I am hoping to play DT at a D-1aa or d2 school)
Irontank - tell me about your agility & combative work. A sled would be great, but you need a pulling sled (check into Dave Tates and a Wheelbarrow - check in WalMart). Have you done any reactionary combative work and looked at John Randles tapes. Lets talk some 'ball. In faith, Coach Davies
I rarely do any agility work on my own, I have always like my coach take care of that is past, but it is my senior year and am ready to do anything to get to the playoffs as well as make myself a better player, i have never thought about during combative work, but it does make alot of sense…i never knew john randle made tapes where could i find them? I will be posting something later on begging for your help, but for know i have to go lift
NEVER wear a belt, keep your form PERFECT, and abs in on all exercises and other than sport specific exercises you will never have to do ab exercises. deads w/600lbs and no belt do more for my abs than ANY crunches (wtd. or not) could EVER do. remember I said there are reasons to do sport specific exercises, but telling me after a set of squats w/no belt and 500+ lbs on my back that I need to do crunches is crazy! just a thought;)
your athletic development must be built around agility, speed and power. All training must emcompass this. Without covering each of these areas in a sport specific manner, your training will be incomplete. Each is dependent upon the other, if developed properly. Your rope work is an immediate priority - while it may hurt, push through it - NOW. Remember why you want this and dont allow yourself to stop. - Lets go through your training, one step at a time - tell me about your flexibility. In faith, Coach Davies
i stretch light before and after ever lifting session, then i stretch “heavy” the next day, i try to use different stretches then the day before, my flexibilty is really good, the only testing i can think of is the sit and reach which they do at my school for hamstring flexability, i alway score in the elite numbers on that