Front shot 5 months after endurance pic
blurry back/biceps 5 mo after endurance pic
[quote]conwict wrote:
detazathoth wrote:
conwict wrote:
detazathoth wrote:
Sorry if I’m going to come off as an ass but…
Why are you going to V-Diet?
To get lean. I’d rather do an all-out type diet for 4-6 weeks than a “moderate” diet for 12-16. I don’t know what my actual bf % is, I’m guessing 11-12, but I’d like to get down to 7.5-9 and see my abs, have some muscle separation, etc.
Am I huge, no. I have made some big improvements from where I started, though. My short-term goal is 16-16.5" upper arm measurement, 28" thighs, and lean enough to see my abs. Thighs are currently a hair over 27" and upper arm is a hair over 16".
Long term goal would be something like 29.5-30" thighs and 17" upper arms, lean. I’m guessing I could do that at a lean 205.
After V-Dieting I expect to be around 185-190.
If you’re actually worried about “coming off as an ass,” you didn’t. If that was one of those “No offense, but…” prefaces meant to confer offense and you’re implying that I shouldn’t get lean because I’m not big enough or something, I really don’t listen a whole lot to that type of opinion :-p
Fair enough, I just don’t think you have much fat to lose, and you’ll be spending close, if not $400+ dollars on fat loss, I did mine because I had 20+lbs to lose, I don’t think that applies to you, but whatever you want to do.
Sorry dude, I was in a bit of a bad mood. I actually edited the last paragraph a little but it didn’t take. Your comment was pretty benign, but there are a lot of people (usually not in dialog with me) who are overwhelmingly negative on these forums. I think my fed-upness with that kinda got misdirected.
I don’t have much fat visible in pics, but I think my thighs would be much more striated because I seem to be a “hip/thigh” fat storer. Also if I lost the love handles I think I’d sport a fairly impressive V taper, being that I feel my lats are a strong point and my shoulders are decently wide.
You know how it is…just a whim in a way, but most effort is good effort when it comes to fitness and health.
I’m intrigued that you V-Dieted. I have perused your log about 4 or 5 times, enough to notice you listed your weight at about 20lbs less than last time I looked, but not enough to notice that you V dieted. Pretty cool, I’m interested in your thoughts on the way you look and feel, more than the numerical changes.
So did you notice a dramatic visual difference afterward? Did others notice? Strength (I take it) remained about the same during the period? Did you do your usual PL-style training?
Conwict[/quote]
I switched to 10x3 during the V-Diet, lost some strength on the bench, and lost about 1/2 inch on my arms as well.
I’m not a fan of total body workouts.
The arm measurements could be explained by fat loss, if you had a significant amount of fat there of course…if not, too bad.
From a “results” standpoint I am a fan of TBT. I am leaner and put more mass on if I work total body.
Waterbury has said, and I happen to agree, that some people need to really blast a particular muscle group in order to get an anabolic response and protein synthesis in the desired area. I’m not that kinda person though, as far as I can tell.
Also, if you look at the workout Chad said he does in his latest interview, it is pretty high volume (per session). He does push in vertical, pull in vertical, push and pull in horizontal, and a dead and squat variation (or at least hip dom and quad dom). When I have enough time to recover that is what I’m going to start doing.
Personally I think split style training and TBT are both great, and have different uses, but for most people who have a limited amount of time to spend in the gym (<40 min including any warmup) I think TBT is much more time efficient. YMMV of course.
[quote]conwict wrote:
The arm measurements could be explained by fat loss, if you had a significant amount of fat there of course…if not, too bad.
From a “results” standpoint I am a fan of TBT. I am leaner and put more mass on if I work total body.
Waterbury has said, and I happen to agree, that some people need to really blast a particular muscle group in order to get an anabolic response and protein synthesis in the desired area. I’m not that kinda person though, as far as I can tell.
Also, if you look at the workout Chad said he does in his latest interview, it is pretty high volume (per session). He does push in vertical, pull in vertical, push and pull in horizontal, and a dead and squat variation (or at least hip dom and quad dom). When I have enough time to recover that is what I’m going to start doing.
Personally I think split style training and TBT are both great, and have different uses, but for most people who have a limited amount of time to spend in the gym (<40 min including any warmup) I think TBT is much more time efficient. YMMV of course.[/quote]
Honestly, and Im not trying to be a dick here, how do you know what “really works for you”? You havent been training for very long and so far youve gone from looking like a prisoner of war to looking like a regular, athletic person.
When you hear people talking about how they are tired of people who have not accomplished much yet pontificating about training on this website, this log is the sort of thing I feel like they are talking about. Honestly, how much time have you spent training any way besides full body? And by that, I dont mean dicking around in the gym while using a split and then not eating. I mean seriously training hard using a split and eating sufficiently.
Do you really know what does and doesnt work best for you because youve put in the time to figure it out or have you just talked yourself into thinking that this works best for you because Chad Waterbury said it would? Not trying to be a dick, just trying to help keep things in perspective.
Stronghold, the original pics I posted were from Dec 05. The updated ones I posted were from April 06, five months later. If you think I look like the April 06 pics, you’re mistaken. I weighed about 175 in those. Now I weigh about 200 at the same BF%.
While I am not freakishly huge or strong, I am definitely more muscular and strong than most people who are my age, and definitely than most people who have been training for the amount of time I have (just 2.5 years roughly).
I’ve been training seriously since Dec 05, so I haven’t been training THAT long…however, I have probably spent…this is without looking back over the training logs that I have…
At least 6 months using splits
The rest of the time using full body or some variation of it, like splits and full body in a HFT template
The results are, in fact, different. That’s for me. And I have intentionally claimed otherwise - that someone else’s results and mine would be identical, etc. In fact I’m much less “absolute” in my claims than most people on here.
I think I should add that it’s a bit of an insult that you imply that I worship Waterbury or something.
I happen to think he has one of the most cogently expressed and rich training philosophies out there, one that isn’t reliant on any one set of variables or presumptions, and that he considers a lot of different variables more effectively than other coaches.
But my success and faith in his programs never precludes me looking at something else. Do I also have an irrational exuberance for Dan John, Eric Cressey, Mike Robertson, Bill Hartman, Dave Tate, and Joe DeFranco, O Chairman of the Forum?
If you’ve been training for 3 years like your profile says, or even four, you seem to be giving an awful lot of advice if you believe your own truism, as expressed to me. My 707 posts are mostly “my opinion is” or “this worked for me,” whereas my reading suggests that your 1600+ posts are mostly “Do this,” “Here’s what you need to do.”
Now that’s fine…but maybe you ought to consider your own stance and, as Dan John would say, physical capital.
Today I did this:
30s lx ball rolling
180s backwards running
Jump squat 12x6 20lb, held goblet style / 30 sec rest
30s lx ball rolling
3x8 sternum chin-up (bwt)
3x8 flat bb bp 185lb
Skipped back squats because those jump squats are taxing. I dread having to do my complex on the same day as the jump squats.
Here’s a vid of how I like to do the jump squats.
Hold DB goblet style, lower under control, and launch. Extend the hips fully while in the air, and point the toes at the ground. Land and repeat, whilst trying to minimize time spent on the ground. Go down as far as possible.
My friend is an idiot and arrived late, so these 3 reps were filmed AFTER I did the 12x6; thus I’m launching myself all of 4 inches vertically. He also couldn’t figure out how to stop the video…
For those with slow browsers, site lag, or a penchant for pics of guys with acne and peach fuzz…
Bottom position. The only thing to add is that you should really be contracting your muscles to hold the db in place, or you’ll be flopping like crazy on the eccentric portion and you’ll have a weird and unstable landing.
Wanted to get a pic of me in the air, but this is as close as I could get. I am about to extend my hips and contract the calves to launch.
The left calf is already starting to look better, btw.
[quote]conwict wrote:
I think I should add that it’s a bit of an insult that you imply that I worship Waterbury or something.
I happen to think he has one of the most cogently expressed and rich training philosophies out there, one that isn’t reliant on any one set of variables or presumptions, and that he considers a lot of different variables more effectively than other coaches.
But my success and faith in his programs never precludes me looking at something else. Do I also have an irrational exuberance for Dan John, Eric Cressey, Mike Robertson, Bill Hartman, Dave Tate, and Joe DeFranco, O Chairman of the Forum?
If you’ve been training for 3 years like your profile says, or even four, you seem to be giving an awful lot of advice if you believe your own truism, as expressed to me. My 707 posts are mostly “my opinion is” or “this worked for me,” whereas my reading suggests that your 1600+ posts are mostly “Do this,” “Here’s what you need to do.”
Now that’s fine…but maybe you ought to consider your own stance and, as Dan John would say, physical capital.[/quote]
I was not implying that you worship Waterbury, I was openly stating it. If you dont realize that this is the way it appears, then you should take a step back, calm down, and then go back and read your own log and realize how much of a fanboy you sound like saying things like “this training is making me brutally strong” and the like.
Most of my posts that say “do this” are telling people who want to gain weight that they need to eat, people that want to lose weight that they need to eat less, and people who want to get strong that they need to train heavy. Im not dispensing my own training philosophy in every post, but rather common sense that people on this site lately seem to be lacking.
Im not sure how to take the fact that you went back and read through my posts to get some dirt on me, but maybe somewhere in your reading you would have learned that in the past 1.5 years I have gained 40 lbs and weigh roughly the same as yourself at 5’7". One year ago, I was 170 lbs, now I am pushing at 200. We are similar in training age and weight. Heres the difference: I am recommending common sense and hard work and you are pushing your next greatest program every month or so and dealing in gimmicks.
As far as this statement: “I happen to think he has one of the most cogently expressed and rich training philosophies out there, one that isn’t reliant on any one set of variables or presumptions, and that he considers a lot of different variables more effectively than other coaches.”
Im assuming you havent really read much of his stuff where he calls his philosophies “the only way to train” and says that any other type of training is wasting your time unless you are using steroids. This statement is the EXACT opposite of the way CW comes across in his articles. That pompous attitude is apparently contagious judging from the video you recently posted.
Stronghold,
On this site there is a lot of hyperbole. Does anyone really think that HOT-ROX Extreme quintuples fat loss, Se7en is too hardcore for the average woman, Alpha Male will make you into a raging sex machine who can’t leave the gym, etc, must I go on?
Now, these statements are hyperbolic, but that doesn’t make the products themselves bad. Far from it; Biotest puts some of the best products on the market out.
Use a little bit of logic. Waterbury’s articles are a function of the site, a tool to attract an audience, and they use the same tool. They, too, use hyperbole. I don’t blame Biotest in the least for using hyperbole. That’s just the way advertising, and particularly the internet, is. If you can get past a little hyperbole, which apparently you can’t, Chad does a good job manipulating a lot of variables and at the least providing food for thought for trainees. My training philosophy is a mesh of a lot of different coaches’ and writers’ material. As a matter of fact, if you look at Chad’s personal statements on the forums and the like, he is a pretty open-minded guy and even says “splits can be best for some people.”
I was telling Det Azathoth, someone who has been training for under 2 years (and making damn good gains), that full body seems to work best for me. He finds that splits work best for him. Then you, who have been training for three years, come along to tell me that I shouldn’t express my opinion? Hmm.
Oh, and forgive me for using a little hyperbole, myself. “Brutally strong”…I probably have to add 23.25% to my current strength level in under 3 months to technically have “brutal strength gains.” I forget that here on Testosterone, you have to be exact with your figures of speech.
As far as my alleged pomposity - which video are you talking about? Unless I have a pompous air whilst jump squatting, you must be referring to my video about how I like to perform a technique recommended on this site. Was it my formation of complete sentences that offended you, or what?
That’s great that you’ve put on however many pounds you’ve put on in however long, and I mean that. I mean, seriously, it’s great. I’m a pretty positive guy who likes to see others make improvements. I wish you’d approached this discussion to offer some advice based on what works for you - since it does, in fact, work for you. That is ultimately the purpose of these forums. And you might see that, if you would stop beating your chest.
P.S., this shot was taken ~14 months after the “prisoner of war” pic and I am about 65 lb heavier, while fitting into the same pair of shorts (although a bit more snugly). Mr Olympia, no…put some beef on, yeah.
Had to get a little chest-beating in, myself.
Well, perhaps you don’t have the genes for bodybuilding in that you don’t have long and full muscle bellies and small joints, but it certainly doesn’t look like you added 65 lbs. of muscle mass. Although full body seemed to work for you in the beginning perhaps you really should consider splitting up your body parts, if you want to be a BODYBUILDER.
Let’s be honest, there isn’t a single bodybuilder who trains like Waterbury claims is the best way, and bodybuilders have been experimenting with training routines/styles for ages. Yet each and every one of them eventually comes up with split routines, even amateurs and naturals. Let’s not forget that science often plays catch up with bodybuilding doctrine.
Years ago the scientific community though high protein diets and full squats were bad, only to find out later that this is not the case, something bodybuilders already “knew”. I think it is the same way with full body / split routines.
I also think that Waterbury is just trying to make a name for himself with trying to come up with something unique that supposedly works better than traditional routines. He uses science for this and very very selective anecdotal evidence.
So far, however, I have not yet seen someone who made tremendous gains on his system. Also, every year Flex magazine has a 12 or 8 or however many weeks muscle gain plan. The results that the readers have with those routines, at least judging from their sent in pictures, are much better than the “HFT progress pics” you find on T-Nation.
Never mind, you must be a troll after all.
From a BB stand point, I think I made the most progress on a legs & core/push/pull routine. 9 months later, I wasn’t much stronger than I had been before, but more used to the high volume low frequency.
Switching back to a TBT style, I made much greater strength gains.
However, I’m now doing WS4SB which is an upper/lower split. I still have yet to decide what works for me, but if I am focusing on strength, I am going TBT all the way. This is especially true for being a tall skinny bastard.
gabex, I think the amount of growth is in the diet. However, if you can do the right program at the right time and eat enough, you CAN make better gains. A sure way for me to make some gains is HFT for a lagging group.
Today
30s rolling
180s bkwds running
8x6
DB tibialis raise 15lb
Seated calf raise, uni, w/ tt DB 65 lb
Seated leg press calf raise uni w/ tt 90lb
Did 4x6 for right foot on unilateral exercises
Then
3x5 complex
Clean grip snatch
Split jerk
Front squat
Jump shrug
127.5 lb
Complex is still kickin’ my ass.
I’ve decided to quit the calf program for several reasons:
The leg press is about the most popular thing in the gym, and I’ve been having trouble utilizing it
My left calf is literally half as strong as my right calf. I want to get some acupuncture and/or active release for it before I spend 8 weeks trying to bring it up
With limited time, and a sort of ADD type attention span, it’s really tough for me to spend 40 min every time I go to the gym doing calves. For that matter, I can’t make it to the gym more than three times per week right now easily due to classes, compounded by the fact that the leg press etc is generally taken by fat guys leg pressing 600 pounds 1/4 the way down.
Excuses, I’m weak, I know. But this combo of factors has really got me bummed, so I’m going to switch altogether over to a modified Westside type workout.