Convincing My Dad Against Vegetarianism?

Diet and Nutrition
41

[quote]legendaryblaze wrote:
BetaBerry wrote:

It takes planning, but only initially. Like I said, I don’t overthink about everything I eat. I also don’t have to eat stuff that tastes like cardboard just because I’m a vegetarian. After a month or two one should have a nice selection of vegetarian foods to eat. Just like you don’t need to plan if this week you’re goin to eat your chicken breasts baked or cooked, I don’t need to sit down with a calculator and plan how I’m going to prepare my tempeh.

Enjoy your Anemia.

Your moral reasons are bullshit too, btw.
We are animals. We have canines for a reason (tear through meat). Just cause we can think doesn’t mean it’s cruel or bad if we eat meat. We have needs too. I am sick of hearing retarded people who think that just because we have a conscience that we are not allowed to look after ourself and give in to our needs and indulgences. We are allowed to be a bit selfish too. This idea is self defeating.

And you eat because if you don’t, you die. Sex is an entirely different matter. Your body has needs and those needs need to be met.

Oh, and you’re hot.

Cheers
[/quote]

Dude, seriously.

I don’t have anemia. And the “whole bleeding once a month thing” as you so smartly put it doesn’t mean women are at higher risk of developing iron deficiency anemia, only if they have abnormally heavy periods.

Your lack of understanding that some people don’t share your (rather narrow, in my opinion) point of view is ridiculous. People like you are the reason I actually feel entitled to a certain arrogance about my morals. At least I have morals, and I’ve got the strengh of mind to stick to them regardless of the number of misinformed people that will tell me how I’m going to waste away and die (which couldn’t be further from the truth).

Having a conscience is precisely the reason why we shouldn’t give in to our indulgences. Unless you think it’s OK to rape a woman when you’re horny but she says no, and it’s OK to steal something when you want it but don’t have money, or that it’s OK to hurt someone in order to look out for yourself. Not to mention that the arguement that you’re using is that we should be more like nonhuman animals, those ones you seem to think are so inferior to you. More importantly, I don’t know what you define as “needs”. Maybe you’re a spoiled little brat that thinks that driving a car, wearing nice looking clothes, and eating mass-produced meat are all needs. Newsflash, none of that is. Eating meat might be a lot of things, but it’s not necessary. A lot of people have never eaten meat and are well and alive, and that’s proof enough that meat isn’t necessary.

But the biggest problem is the unnecessary torture that comes with meat. Someone mentioned they don’tt eat veal but eat regular beef. Well, you really wish regular meat didn’t include unnecessary suffering, but it does. There’s no need for the way animals are crammed up in small areas, living in their own filthy, treated with antibiotics and steroids, castrated without anesthesia (how would you like that, tough boy?), transported in such bad conditions that some don’t even survive it, and then slaughtered in the most inhumane conditions. Oh wait, there is a reason: money. Doing things that way makes meat cheaper.

Not the “cheaper so that we can send it to Africa and cure world hunger” type of cheaper. More like the “cheaper so we can sell more and more people can stuff their faces with the food they couldn’t stand knowing how it’s made”.

So if every moral discussion has two sides, I’m fine with that. But my side doesn’t include torture, greediness, or doing things just because you think you’re supposed to.

If you don’t eat you die, if no one has sex people aren’t born. Food is tasty and fun and so is sex. I don’t go around screwing everybody because I have morals. I don’t eat dead animals because I have morals. Is it really that hard for you to get?

Oh, and you’re an a**hole.

[quote]Makavali wrote:

You used to be cool.

:([/quote]

I am cool. And to think I’m not based on what I eat makes you so not cool.

[quote]ironmaniac508 wrote:
I hate it when parents have their kids have a vegetarian diet. The kids often become very frail and sickly looking especially as they grow into teenagers. As far as I know it is very hard to get enough protein if you dont eat meat, eggs or dairy products. Me personally I eat meat maybe once a week but everyday I eat eggs, cheese, peanut butter and I drink lots of milk.[/quote]

Well then maybe you don’t know much. For one, vegetarians eat milk and eggs, Vegans are the ones who dont. And no, it’s not hard at all to get enough without eating those things.

For the record, even being a vegetarian, I don’t dream of a future when everyone will be too. If I was to think of the “ideal” world, I’d say people would eat meat (beef, poultry, fish, doesn’t matter) about twice a week. The whole corporate meat industry I described above wouldn’t be necessary anymore. Plus, people would be able to afford better quality meat. And by better quality I mean cows that actually graze, hens that aren’t caged, fishing that doesn’t cause extinction, etc.

42

[quote]BetaBerry wrote:

Your lack of understanding that some people don’t share your (rather narrow, in my opinion) point of view is ridiculous. People like you are the reason I actually feel entitled to a certain arrogance about my morals. At least I have morals, and I’ve got the strengh of mind to stick to them regardless of the number of misinformed people that will tell me how I’m going to waste away and die (which couldn’t be further from the truth).

Having a conscience is precisely the reason why we shouldn’t give in to our indulgences. Unless you think it’s OK to rape a woman when you’re horny but she says no, and it’s OK to steal something when you want it but don’t have money, or that it’s OK to hurt someone in order to look out for yourself. Not to mention that the arguement that you’re using is that we should be more like nonhuman animals, those ones you seem to think are so inferior to you. More importantly, I don’t know what you define as “needs”. Maybe you’re a spoiled little brat that thinks that driving a car, wearing nice looking clothes, and eating mass-produced meat are all needs. Newsflash, none of that is. Eating meat might be a lot of things, but it’s not necessary. A lot of people have never eaten meat and are well and alive, and that’s proof enough that meat isn’t necessary.

But the biggest problem is the unnecessary torture that comes with meat. Someone mentioned they don’tt eat veal but eat regular beef. Well, you really wish regular meat didn’t include unnecessary suffering, but it does. There’s no need for the way animals are crammed up in small areas, living in their own filthy, treated with antibiotics and steroids, castrated without anesthesia (how would you like that, tough boy?), transported in such bad conditions that some don’t even survive it, and then slaughtered in the most inhumane conditions. Oh wait, there is a reason: money. Doing things that way makes meat cheaper.

Not the “cheaper so that we can send it to Africa and cure world hunger” type of cheaper. More like the “cheaper so we can sell more and more people can stuff their faces with the food they couldn’t stand knowing how it’s made”.

So if every moral discussion has two sides, I’m fine with that. But my side doesn’t include torture, greediness, or doing things just because you think you’re supposed to.

If you don’t eat you die, if no one has sex people aren’t born. Food is tasty and fun and so is sex. I don’t go around screwing everybody because I have morals. I don’t eat dead animals because I have morals. Is it really that hard for you to get?

Oh, and you’re an a**hole.
[/quote]

Your arguments are terrible.
You’re going to take a few PETA videos and assume it’s the absolute truth for every single farm out there.
My side doesn’t include torture or greediness either. Eating meat does not equate to greediness or anything along that line. Sounds to me like stupid propaganda Vegan bullshit.

I will say i find it cute how you think chickens are sad that they aren’t outside roaming the lands and conquering the land! Yeah! They’re fucking chickens.

The human body can produce certain amino acids on it’s own. Protein is basically amino acids strung up in certain chains.
However the human body cannot produce all of the amino acids it needs to function. The ones we need and can’t make, we get from food.

Just by eating one steak, a bit of chicken or some fish you have covered all your bases.
Amino acids are important in the function of your organs (most importantly your brain), blood, muscle and etc.

Now plants don’t all contain these amino acids. To get the entire spectrum of amino acids, you’d have to eat several different types of grains or\and plants. And this is just to get everything you need. Then you need to get enough.

Farming is expensive, and there are many mouths to feed. Tell me, what do you think is harder to do?
Feed several people with one cow (milk + meat) or to plant several thousand tons of crops and hope that the weather, insects and disease don’t ruin it.

Also i hope you have enough land and money (gotta water those crops, you gotta plant those seeds and you gotta pick up what you need, turn the soil, fertilize the soil, etc etc) for all that crop. Not to mention the different crops you’d need so you’d get all the proper amino acids and enough protein to be well fed.

Another interesting point is you talk about steroids (is there a ronnie coleman cow out there? Ain’t nothing but a moooooooo) and antibiotics in meat but failed to point out the tons of pesticide and other shit they spray on their crops so they can grow bigger and faster.
You really think that sort of abuse is only restricted to live stock?

You are right in saying that certain farms do abuse their animals. That’s because by doing it that way, it’s easier to mass produce. And you are also right in saying that they do it for money.

However there are farms (little family owned farms usually) out there that treat their animals very well. Yet again, it has to do with money. The more space you give to a cow or chicken, the more you are spending on that one cow or chicken. That means you have to charge more. If you’re so interested in fighting the good fight, why not buy from them? Like that those little farms can stay up.

It will cost you a little more but at least you’d be getting your meat from people who treat their animals well. So what’s your excuse now? By not buying from them, you are the reason they go out of business. Then the big money grabbing farms that stuff chickens in small cages continue on and make more money, cause there’s no one else to buy from.

By buying no meat at all you hurt both the big bad farm and the good little farm. If you buy from the good little farm, it can continue onwards, you get your meat and the bad farms get nothing. Isn’t this a better way to fight against terrible conditions for animals?

If that still bothers you, you can always go hunting. One well placed bullet through the chest is quite painless for the animal (most likely white tailed deer). The meat will be un-Ronnie Coleman’d (no steroids) and you will have enough food to last you for months. You will have killed the animal humanely (painlessly and quickly) and you’d be able to eat your meat.

Mind you, you’d have to purchase a gun, a scope, get a license, take a safety course, buy the bullets, drive to the proper location and if you don’t own land, you’d have to go on a hunting reserve and pay a fee. Also after your kill (for which you have to claim and pay a tax usually), you’d have to bring the animal to a butcher who specializes in wild meat and pay him a few hundred dollars for him to skin it and separate all the parts (removing bones, separate the different parts like the filets, ribs, etc).

My point here is that there are many means in which one can acquire meat in a humane manner.
However they aren’t always methods that are easily practiced. I am university student so i can go out and hunt and get my meat. Someone who works 40-60 hour weeks and has a family to feed and growing kids that won’t eat their vegetables needs a quick solution so his family can be well fed and happy.

Sure, eating meat isn’t necessary.
Lions can survive on grains too i’m sure but it’s just complicating life.
You can eat meat. So why restrict yourself? I gave you two great alternatives (cause i’m nice like that) where you can make a difference and eat meat.

So are you going to do that and start eating meat or are you going to complain that it’s too expensive, takes too much time or some other bullshit excuse? In which case you prove my point that vegetarians are full of shit lazy dumb faggots that talk about change but never actually do anything themselves and just like to feel self important and pretend to be moral.

And you don’t sleep around with everybody? I dunno, that’s debateable cause your profile picture screams attention whore.

Attention WHORE.

If you wish to prove me wrong, then please PM me naked pictures of you and i will concede defeat.

Until then, i rest my case.

43

[quote]BetaBerry wrote:
Unless you think it’s OK to rape a woman when you’re horny but she says no,
[/quote]

I don’t care what you eat or why as long as you’re happy, but I have to point out that rape typically has ZERO to do with being horney. So your analogy is very much flawed.

Okay, carry on.

44

I know 2 kids (16 and 17, not related) who claim to be vegetarians, yet neither of them eat actual vegetables. Both avoid animal products out of principle, yet consume pasta and breads almost exclusively. As a result of their enzyme and protein deficient diets, both kids are suffering with health problems. One of them has had her gall bladder removed, and the other is developing slowly and he’s weak and sickly. My wife and I have spoken to their parents about healthy eating programs, but of course teenagers think they know everything, and our advice is for naught.

45

[quote]BetaBerry wrote:

Well then maybe you don’t know much. For one, vegetarians eat milk and eggs, Vegans are the ones who dont. And no, it’s not hard at all to get enough without eating those things.

For the record, even being a vegetarian, I don’t dream of a future when everyone will be too. If I was to think of the “ideal” world, I’d say people would eat meat (beef, poultry, fish, doesn’t matter) about twice a week. The whole corporate meat industry I described above wouldn’t be necessary anymore. Plus, people would be able to afford better quality meat. And by better quality I mean cows that actually graze, hens that aren’t caged, fishing that doesn’t cause extinction, etc.

[/quote]

I agree that it’s possible to get adequate nutrition while being a vegetarian, but it’s clearly more difficult. As a whole, parents do a poor job with nutrition as it is. I don’t think they need yet another factor working against them.

Just because something is possible doesn’t mean it’s ideal, or that it will even work in practice.

46

There are so many arguments for and against, that it is impossible to pick a “best” side. Not only that, but most arguments are simply conjecture e.g. “cavemen did x,y,z” or “we have canines for tearing meat” and so are useless at best.

Just do whatever the hell you want. It’s more about the intelligence of the individual with regards to their nutrition rather than simply a case of meateater vs vegetarian.

I will say that a diet rich in meat suits me better in terms of progress in the weightroom, but maybe that’s not for everyone.

47

I’m vegan too. I only eat organic grass fed meat. For “moral” reasons not “health” reasons. I also do not preach not do I act superior because I’m vegan.

48

So, back to the OPs original question:

  1. Assuming the OPs dad can obtain the nutrition he needs for his fitness goals from a vegetarian diet.
  2. Assuming none of you on this forum are authoritative enough to impose your lifestyle on others.
  3. Assuming the OPs dad thinks his friend is hot.
  4. Assuming said friend will help the OPs dad transition to a vegetarian lifestyle
  5. Assuming the OPs dad isn’t already in a committed relationship.

I believe the answer is that I see no reason why the OPs dad shouldn’t try to leverage this issue to obtain sexual favors from said female friend.

49

[quote]legendaryblaze wrote:
BetaBerry wrote:

Your lack of understanding that some people don’t share your (rather narrow, in my opinion) point of view is ridiculous. People like you are the reason I actually feel entitled to a certain arrogance about my morals. At least I have morals, and I’ve got the strengh of mind to stick to them regardless of the number of misinformed people that will tell me how I’m going to waste away and die (which couldn’t be further from the truth).

Having a conscience is precisely the reason why we shouldn’t give in to our indulgences. Unless you think it’s OK to rape a woman when you’re horny but she says no, and it’s OK to steal something when you want it but don’t have money, or that it’s OK to hurt someone in order to look out for yourself. Not to mention that the arguement that you’re using is that we should be more like nonhuman animals, those ones you seem to think are so inferior to you. More importantly, I don’t know what you define as “needs”. Maybe you’re a spoiled little brat that thinks that driving a car, wearing nice looking clothes, and eating mass-produced meat are all needs. Newsflash, none of that is. Eating meat might be a lot of things, but it’s not necessary. A lot of people have never eaten meat and are well and alive, and that’s proof enough that meat isn’t necessary.

But the biggest problem is the unnecessary torture that comes with meat. Someone mentioned they don’tt eat veal but eat regular beef. Well, you really wish regular meat didn’t include unnecessary suffering, but it does. There’s no need for the way animals are crammed up in small areas, living in their own filthy, treated with antibiotics and steroids, castrated without anesthesia (how would you like that, tough boy?), transported in such bad conditions that some don’t even survive it, and then slaughtered in the most inhumane conditions. Oh wait, there is a reason: money. Doing things that way makes meat cheaper.

Not the “cheaper so that we can send it to Africa and cure world hunger” type of cheaper. More like the “cheaper so we can sell more and more people can stuff their faces with the food they couldn’t stand knowing how it’s made”.

So if every moral discussion has two sides, I’m fine with that. But my side doesn’t include torture, greediness, or doing things just because you think you’re supposed to.

If you don’t eat you die, if no one has sex people aren’t born. Food is tasty and fun and so is sex. I don’t go around screwing everybody because I have morals. I don’t eat dead animals because I have morals. Is it really that hard for you to get?

Oh, and you’re an a**hole.

Your arguments are terrible.
You’re going to take a few PETA videos and assume it’s the absolute truth for every single farm out there.
My side doesn’t include torture or greediness either. Eating meat does not equate to greediness or anything along that line. Sounds to me like stupid propaganda Vegan bullshit.
[/quote]

No, I used to live in a farm town back in Brasil, actually one of the biggest producers of Zebu cattle in the world. Half of my friends had farms. The things I’ve mentioned I’ve seen with my own eyes. Note, that was in Brasil where Cows are always grass fed. The situation here is worse.

And you’re a fucking moron! And yet I’d still defend you if someone tried to kill you inhumanely. Showing compassion for your won kind is meaningless, for it’s only a reflection of your compassion for yourself. Showing compassion for those you consider inferior or different, that is the hard one.

Wow, did you go to college to learn all that? For one, I drink milk, and have mentioned it before, so your arguement is empty. Second, the fact that you have to eat two or three different types of grains is hardly an inconvenience. Unless you’re preaching the advantages of a one food only diet, I think we all agree variety is the key to a health nutrition, vegetarian or not.

This arguement is so flawed I dont know where to begin…

What do you think farm cows eat? They eat grains. You still have to plant tons of if and use pesticides and hope the weather is good, the only difference is that then you feed those grians to the cows and lose about 70% of energy in the process. for a cow to grow into 400kgs, it needs to ingest at least 400kgs of food (cows don’t create their meat out of thin air). In fact, it needs to ingest a whole lot more than that, because they don’t absorb everything they eat, just like us (yea, cows poop) But a 400kgs cow doesn’t have all that weight in consumable meat. A cow has bones, organs, soft tissue, and other parts that are thrown away after slaughter. So you’re taking over a ton of grains that could be feeding people and instead you’re feeding them to a cow, which yields less than 200kgs of meat.

I didn’t mention pesticides because it’s off point. I’m fully aware of it and still don’t see how it’s relevant to the discussion.

[/quote]
You are right in saying that certain farms do abuse their animals. That’s because by doing it that way, it’s easier to mass produce. And you are also right in saying that they do it for money.

However there are farms (little family owned farms usually) out there that treat their animals very well. Yet again, it has to do with money. The more space you give to a cow or chicken, the more you are spending on that one cow or chicken. That means you have to charge more. If you’re so interested in fighting the good fight, why not buy from them? Like that those little farms can stay up.

It will cost you a little more but at least you’d be getting your meat from people who treat their animals well. So what’s your excuse now? By not buying from them, you are the reason they go out of business. Then the big money grabbing farms that stuff chickens in small cages continue on and make more money, cause there’s no one else to buy from.
[/quote]

My excuse is that you’re repeating what I said in my post. About how if people ate less meat there wouldn’t be need for mass production. Plagiarizing is bad, you know? If you wanna sound smartass you might wanna try using your own ideas. Also, while there are some small farms that use humane methods, they are very few, and most people don’t care or can’t afford that kind of meat. To say “some people are doing it right” doesn’t justify that most of them are doing it wrong.

Farmers will switch to crops instead of livestock.

Again, I barely know where to start…

I would hunt if I needed it for my survival. I’m not lost in the jungle and I’m not starving, so hunting would be killing for entertainment, which I find disgusting.

So far all you can come up with is that meat, while unnecessary, is good and we should do it just because humans have always done it. Why on earth would I take that as a reason? I don’t pretend to have principles, and I certainly don’t base them on “it’s what we’re supposed to do”. Also, to whoever said that vegetarians shouldn’t drive cars, well, that’s just plain silly. It’s not about living an entirely harmless life, it’s about minimizing suffering and abuse whenever I can. That said, I don’t have a car. Public transportation is the way to go, and while that sucks here in the midwest, if I ever decide to buy a car it’ll be a hybrid. Also I don’t wear fur, leather, feathers, and avoid animal tested products.

[quote]
And you don’t sleep around with everybody? I dunno, that’s debateable cause your profile picture screams attention whore.

Attention WHORE.

If you wish to prove me wrong, then please PM me naked pictures of you and i will concede defeat. [/quote]

Sweety, you are pathethic. I’m sorry I’m pretty but there’s nothing I can do about that. There’s two pictures of me. My avatar shows a little shoulder (hmmm naughty, eh?). The other picture is blurry and I’m all dressed in it. I didn’t know you had a shoulder fetish, or I would have avoided that picture.

The only one here kicking and screaming for a attention is you. I’m merely defending my point that you so fiercely tried to attack.

50

[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:
nik133 wrote:
these animals are bread to be killed

Well, Freud was right.

(Movie reference… anyone?)[/quote]

yeah, and a great one too.

51

[quote]redgladiator wrote:
I’m vegan too. I only eat organic grass fed meat. For “moral” reasons not “health” reasons. I also do not preach not do I act superior because I’m vegan.[/quote]

LOL.

To OP:

Let your dad experiment. Even if he don’t last long on it maybe he’ll learn something from it, like the values of more vegetables. In no way am I a vegan or vegetarian. I don’t knock it unless one of them starts to preach it to me.

52

[quote]DeadRamones wrote:

Let your dad experiment. Even if he don’t last long on it maybe he’ll learn something from it, like the values of more vegetables. In no way am I a vegan or vegetarian. I don’t knock it unless one of them starts to preach it to me.

[/quote]
Maybe you should try it before you start knocking it :slight_smile:

53

What she said!

54

What I don’t understand is how people can stop eating cows because of how they are mistreated while living, yet still eat eggs and milk. Both dairy cows and hens are usually very mistreated as well, hens in particular. I remember reading in Omnivores Dilemma about how egg laying hens are the most inhumanely treated out of all the farm animals. How with the lack of space they get they end up scratching off their own feathers, and how if you saw the state of the chickens you were getting eggs from you would not be able to eat their eggs.

Another thing I don’t understand is the lack of knowledge of the conservation of energy and at the very least the conservation of matter. These bones and other “unusable” parts of the cow don’t get eaten… by humans at least. But when these parts are thrown away where do they think they got, they don’t just disappear do they? They are organic matter that slowly decomposes and becomes nutrients for the soil.

I’m also aware of the food energy pyramid, how the higher up you go producer → primary consumer → secondary consumer etc… the more energy is “wasted”. Only about a third of the energy a “higher form” takes from the lower is used for growth the rest goes to waste (poop) and metabolic heat. The poop just gets used by the earth in it’s soil eventually by those selfless plants, and the heat just sits around, getting absorbed by dead or living things (some gets lost into space, but is that really a problem considering how much people are worried about “global warming”?)

To me it seems like vegetarians are really lacking in the big picture of things, hardly nothing is lost, almost everything stays on earth and goes back in this big complex cycle that has been running for millions of years.

Lastly, one thing I’ve noticed is that a lot of gung-ho proponents for vegetarianism thrive on a high carb diet. BetaBerry I assume since you are from Brazil and your skin color that you have ancestry closer to the equator, while I’m nearly albino and mine is closer to the north pole. Your ancestry had access to carbs pretty much all year long. Based on your profile pic I’d say you probably thrive on carbs. My ancestry had access to carbs during a couple months out of the year right before winter.

My ancestors were naturally selected to get fat on these carbs (get fat before scarce times), and become less active (many believe that depression plays a physiological role in helping conserve calories during the winter). Based on this info I switched to a primarily animal diet with only 50 carbs or less a day about 2 years ago. Ever since then, I’ve become leaner, more muscular, sharper, and have had a greater sense of well being. Before when I was on a high carb diet (even though I ate clean) I was skinny fat, sluggish, and depressed.

Now if I was only eating meat a few times a week like in that “ideal” future, I’d be skinny fat, and depressed right now because my body just doesn’t thrive on carbs. A vegetarian diet pretty much has to be high carb, and I’d never trade my new lifestyle for the old, ever.

55

[quote]dudinator wrote:
What I don’t understand is how people can stop eating cows because of how they are mistreated while living, yet still eat eggs and milk. Both dairy cows and hens are usually very mistreated as well, hens in particular. I remember reading in Omnivores Dilemma about how egg laying hens are the most inhumanely treated out of all the farm animals. How with the lack of space they get they end up scratching off their own feathers, and how if you saw the state of the chickens you were getting eggs from you would not be able to eat their eggs. [/quote]

Both eggs and milk can be obtained with minimal suffering. If you ever owned a pair of hens (like I used to), you’d see that they lay eggs on their own, and there’s no harm in eating those. I wish I had the space to have a cow or a goat so I could have my own milk, but unfortunately for now, I just have to pick brands that are more cruelty free.

I wasn’t talking about physics, I was debunking that dude’s argument that producing meat is cheaper than producing grains.

I’m half hungarian, half portuguese. None of my grandparents were born in Brasil, they’re all european. My dad’s family even speaks hungarian at home. Absolutely no equatorian bloodline here. My tan is a result of the enviroment, not genetics.

[quote]
My ancestors were naturally selected to get fat on these carbs (get fat before scarce times), and become less active (many believe that depression plays a physiological role in helping conserve calories during the winter). Based on this info I switched to a primarily animal diet with only 50 carbs or less a day about 2 years ago. Ever since then, I’ve become leaner, more muscular, sharper, and have had a greater sense of well being. Before when I was on a high carb diet (even though I ate clean) I was skinny fat, sluggish, and depressed.

Now if I was only eating meat a few times a week like in that “ideal” future, I’d be skinny fat, and depressed right now because my body just doesn’t thrive on carbs. A vegetarian diet pretty much has to be high carb, and I’d never trade my new lifestyle for the old, ever.[/quote]

Maybe carbs don’t work for you, but I believe that’s a personal thing. Trying to justify it with genetics is a far stretch, in my opinion. Assuming that everything about a person body is in written in their genes is like fat people’s excuse for being fat. Also, a vegetarian diet doesn’t necessarily mean a high carbs diet (common layman mistake to think so). I have tried low carb before, as a vegetarian, and while it wasn’t hard from a technical point of view (there’s a several low carb, high protein vegetarian options out there), I pretty much hated it. Not just because I was grumpy and couldn’t sleep well. For me (and again, this is personal), it was simply boring. Yes, I’ll say it out loud: I love my carbs. I eat bread, potatoes, pasta, and the occasional chocolate. That has nothing to do with not eating meat, that’s just the kind of food I have a taste for. I also drink milk like a calf, not to make up for meat, but because milk is so yummy. My husband likes meat (mostly fish), and I prepare it for him. I heard from several people that I make a darn good tenderloin roast too. My only requirement here at home is that the husband needs to buy at least organic, free range meat, eggs, etc.

I’m just saying this to point out that I understand that people have personal tastes, and I’m not on a crusade to change anyone’s mind, and that’s why it pisses me off when people go on preaching about how I should change my mind.

56

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
I don’t answer any thread that uses the word “anyways” twice.[/quote]

but you just did.

See what I did there?

57

[quote]Makavali wrote:
BetaBerry wrote:

You used to be cool.

:([/quote]

She has itergrity. Having itergrity is cool.

58

[quote]BetaBerry wrote:
Both eggs and milk can be obtained with minimal suffering. If you ever owned a pair of hens (like I used to), you’d see that they lay eggs on their own, and there’s no harm in eating those. I wish I had the space to have a cow or a goat so I could have my own milk, but unfortunately for now, I just have to pick brands that are more cruelty free.

I wasn’t talking about physics, I was debunking that dude’s argument that producing meat is cheaper than producing grains.

I’m half hungarian, half portuguese. None of my grandparents were born in Brasil, they’re all european. My dad’s family even speaks hungarian at home. Absolutely no equatorian bloodline here. My tan is a result of the enviroment, not genetics.

Maybe carbs don’t work for you, but I believe that’s a personal thing. Trying to justify it with genetics is a far stretch, in my opinion. Assuming that everything about a person body is in written in their genes is like fat people’s excuse for being fat. Also, a vegetarian diet doesn’t necessarily mean a high carbs diet (common layman mistake to think so). I have tried low carb before, as a vegetarian, and while it wasn’t hard from a technical point of view (there’s a several low carb, high protein vegetarian options out there), I pretty much hated it. Not just because I was grumpy and couldn’t sleep well. For me (and again, this is personal), it was simply boring.[/quote]

How many eggs does a hen lay per year? What are maintenance costs to humanely raise a hen? I ask because steak can be obtained with minimal suffering however it usually costs a lot more. If everyone in the world went vegetarian I can guarantee that demand for eggs would skyrocket, as would mistreatment of chickens. I’m curious though about the raising a hen thing for eggs (or multiple hens for my diet).

The conservation of energy argument wasn’t directed at you but mainly at the people who think raising animals is somehow making energy and matter disappear.

http://www.wordtravels.com/Travelguide/Countries/Portugal/Climate/ 50 degrees in the winter? Doesn’t sound like you’d need to conserve many cals there. Not to mention the fact that native (we’re talking millions of years) ancestry has very little to do with Portugal since the Moors invaded it and most Portuguese ancestry would be traced back to Northern Africa since Africa had such an influence on it.

I don’t understand, how are genetics “stretching it”? Could you explain this a little bit better? How can carbs not work for me, work for someone else, and genetics not be to blame for it? Or are you just one of those people who believes the pc notion that genes have very little to do with who we are? Nothing about my lifestyle (lifting, football, volleyball, soccer, very active) changed when I went low carb, yet I became much leaner, stronger, and felt better. How can you explain that?

The low carb vegetarian diet has piqued my interest. Could you explain a typical day on a low carb vegetarian diet? My typical macros for my diet these days are 60F/40P/trace carbs, could this be emulated in a vegetarian diet? I think the fact that you couldn’t sleep, and were irritable on a low carb diet shows that you have genetics to thrive on carbs, I’m the opposite. How could genes not be to blame for that?

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[quote]BetaBerry wrote:
blablabla

[/quote]

Huh? I asked you why you don’t eat meat. You said it was because people are doing it wrong. So why not buy from the people who are doing it right? I eat both meat and vegetables. I love both.
And hunting by definition is in consideration to food. You have your definition grossly misunderstood, sweetheart. And even if it was for entertainment (which it most certainly is not), if YOU were the one hunting, you’d be doing it just for the food right? So there would be no problems if YOU did it because YOU would be doing it only for the meat. What do you say to that?

And i agree that vegans or vegetarians shouldn’t drive cars. I think you guys should either use public transportation, walk, run or take a bike.
You’ll still get to point B from point A, even though it will take more time and is a little less convenient.

You can mirror that arguement for the meat and grains one. However it’s good that you do use public transportation. At least you’re not a hypocrite.

Farmers will switch to crop instead of livestock? Either way, the big farms who mass produce crop while using pesticide and all that shit are no different than the livestock farms.
You didn’t address the fact concerning the families that don’t have the type or the luxury to research, buy and prepare several types of grain.
You honestly believe everyone in the world should stop eating meat? Mass production of meat is a necessary evil because there are a massive amount of people in this world.

Again, do you have the money and capabilities to produce massive amounts of food in minimal time? Cutting corners is necessary so everyone can be well fed. Not everyone has the luxury to choose. Again, one steak can feed a family well. Not everyone has the money to buy tons and different sorts of grains and vegetables.

I realize that beans, tofu and all that bullshit is cheaper than meat. However to get the equivalent nutritional value as meat, it is much more expensive. I’ll have 300 grams of meat and you can have 300 grams of tofu. I will have eaten more.
People opt for unhealthy foods because they are cheaper. Meat is not necessarily unhealthy but again, sometimes eating meat IS out of necessity because the other stuff is too expensive and tedious to cook.
In meat you have proteins, carbs, water, fat (the good kind), minerals and so forth.
Grains you need several types and in large quantity to equate to the same nutritional value. Every vegan and vegetarian i have met has been borderline anorexic (no joke). Minimizing suffering is great but if every one is on the brink of starvation, it’s a bit ridiculous, don’t you think?

You argue well, your cow arguement was true but i find it very odd that someone would go so far for animals that are bred to be killed so they may be eaten.
You are arguing against fellow humans, some who are not able to buy vegetables in large quantities because they aren’t able to. And yet you’d rather send them off to starve to protect a bunch of dumb animals that are bred for food.

I think it’s nice (attractive maybe? wink wink) that you believe so strongly in your morals. Though i wonder if you realize how unrealistic your dreams are? We NEED meat to survive. We need to eat well. It is a convenience as well as a necessity. Meat offers that easily and cheaply.

I would still like those pics though.

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[quote]redgladiator wrote:
I’m vegan too. I only eat organic grass fed meat. [/quote]

You’re not a vegan, you’re a dumbass…

Vegan’s don’t eat any meat.

http://www.vegan.org/about_veganism/index.html

I bet you have a leather wallet too.