Congrats to Sammy Sosa!

Off Topic
41

“Yes I think somebody could gain 50 lbs over their lifting career, thats very probable and likely. But McGwire wasn’t lifting long enough to call it a ‘lifting career’”

Not only has he not been lifting long enough but the big 3 (bonds, sosa, mcguire) put on their LBM after the starts of their pro careers. How much time can a pro-ballplayer spend on hypertrophy throughout the year? I don’t think they could reach those levels during their 5 month off-season and then maintain for the rest of the year.

42

It’s like finding out John Holmes used a stunt dick.

43

Have you seen bonds and sosa. THEY ARENT THAT BIG. Good god people. Maybe if you weigh 140 lbs then they are huge to you or if you are some pencil necked sports reporter then maybe. But There are guys at my gym that have no idea what they are doing that are bigger than them. Is it not possible that two guys in the majors lift weights and gained some mass? And Ive played baseball? For most of the game you are sitting or standing around. I also lifted during the season with no problems. Is it such a stretch to think that major league players could do the same?

44

Corked Bat & (abbreviated) Physics Lesson

The Law of Conservation of Energy basically states that energy can neither be created no destroyed. In our bat and ball example the energy being transferred between the two is Kinetic Energy (KE) which is equal to 1/2 Mass*Velocity^2.

The KE of the bat is going to be roughly equal to the KE of the Ball after contact. [KE(bat) = KE(ball)]

Substitute in the KE equations (Bat on the left half, ball on the right half:

[1/2MV^2 = 1/2MV^2]

Since the Velocity is squared and the mass is constant, you can see from the equation that bat SPEED is much more important than bat MASS when it comes to transferring energy.

I don’t think anyone will question that you can accelerate (swing) a lighter bat faster.

Now obviously there is a knee in the bat weight curve - an optimum weight bat for each individual depending on their strength. You don’t want a bat that weighs nothing. I’m starting to have a reaction to this pocket protector though, gotta go!

45

I’m actually a huge Cubs fan, as is my best friend. In fact we’re leaving for Chicago this Saturday for the Cubs-Yanks game on Sunday at Wrigley! (Man this put a bit of a damper on our weekend…lol). So most would think I’m biased and believe Sammy’s “batting practice” story. Let my just say this right up front…I don’t. I think it’s crap. My best friend and I beat this one to death last night, and he, being a huge Sosa fan and inclined to believe his story, didn’t like what I had to say last night.

One: I too heard on the radio the Yale physicist stating that corked bats don’t necessarily mean greater batting power, longer hits, etc. Okay. Then why are they still around? Oh, wait…someone said maybe it’s a mental edge. Okay, maybe that’s true, but last time I checked, isn’t tampering a bat in that way still illegal, cheating, etc.?

Two: “I use them for batting practice.” Isn’t the whole point of practice to make you better in a real game situation? How in the HELL is using a tampered bat going to improve your hitting power, bat speed, etc. in a real game? I know in my playing days, it was using the heavier bats (you know, swinging it with the weight ring in the on-deck circle) that improved my hitting, bat speed, made the bat feel lighter in my hands, etc. I don’t see a lot of oly/powerlifters throwing around rubber weights to get them pumped and ready for a big meet…

Three: “I like to please my fans.” That’s cool, we like that you like to do that. But I got an idea…do it the real way…Maybe you just thought that if you did indeed only used it before games we would never know? Man, looks like now that risk wasn’t quite worth it, huh? How impressed is everyone going to be by your pre-game show now?

Four: Sosa has close to 8,000 career at-bats (it’s somewhere in the 7,900’s, I just don’t feel like looking it up right now). Kind of weird that the ONE time in his ENTIRE career he JUST HAPPENED to make a mistake and pick up the wrong bat. Man, if that’s true that’s about as awful a twist of fate and bad luck as I’ve ever heard…

Five: I’m not going to quote him verbatim on this, but I know that last year Sammy said something about how special his bats are to him, how he used to sleep with them at night, etc. (If someone really MUST have the quote I can probably find it somewhere). I also know that most other players feel the same way from various other interviews, statements throughout the years. This is their job, for crying out loud! These are their “tools o’ the trade.” These guys don’t just go around picking up the first one lying around in the dugout and say “Yeah this one feels about right” and go swinging away. They all pay close attention to detail on exactly how their bats are made, which ones are working better for them lately, etc. And, while those who don’t have a lot of experience with the game may think that one ounce seems insignificant, anybody who played can tell you that you can tell a huge difference with one ounce when holding the bat in your hands…I have a hard time believing Sammy just picked up the bat and didn’t realize that it was noticeably lighter than his normal bat.

Six: While this is not directly related to Sosa…I’m going to wait about three more years before I really push this point strongly, because it’s hard to tell by only one year…But, as most already know, this year is the first year that the MLB has implemented random steroid testing. Has anybody noticed how numbers have drastically dropped this season, as compared to recent years? During the big three (Bonds, Sosa, Mac) homerun chases everyone used the “parks are shorter, pitching is watered down, balls are juiced” crap. Okay, but even so, that means we can still compare the next five to ten years to the last five, because it’s on the same level now. And if indeed the numbers continue to drop, anybody who believes that nothing was going on is naive. So how does this carry over to Sosa? Perhaps it goes something like “I can’t juice anymore. What else can I do to give me just a little bit more of an edge?” This would seem especailly likely in a time when a nagging injury has kept him out for a while and maybe he just needed a little something to get him back on his feet for a couple of games…

I would like to say, however, that I in no way doubt Sammy’s power and ability. It takes a huge amount of skill and proper technique to hit a baseball, juice/corked bats or not…

So that’s my take on the Sosa situation. I also have a couple of other things I want to touch on, however, after reading some of the posts here…

It seems that some people (and I’m not talking about anybody on this board particularly) are of the mind-set that cheating in baseball is just part of the game. As in “It’s been going for years, get over it!” Yes, cheating in baseball has been going on since the very first days of the game, with the doctored balls and what not, but that’s why over time rules are made that TRY to prevent these measures (while not always successful). The point is that the game evolves, and in turn do the players evolve with it. Yes, athletes are always going to look for an edge until the end of time, and I imagine that over time, when a certain edge seems to step outside the boundaries of the game a rule will be made barring it. It seems some people just want to let cheating go on uninhibited. So are we just supposed to give up on trying to prevent cheating? Is this really what sports are about? Is this supposed to be okay?

And lastly, the steroid issue…as in, do players really use them? Let me just say this. I have several friends who play baseball at the college level. I also live in the same apartment complex as our local minor-league baseball team (a Houston Astros affiliate) so I see them at the pool a lot. I even know a guy who pitched at the major league level for a while (Dave Voit for the Brewers, he lives here in Lexington now). From talks I’ve had with some of these people, and some of the conversations I’ve overheard, steroid use is rampant at these levels. So, if that’s the case with college and minor league ball, I can only imagine what it’s like at the major-league professional level. Dave even told me which ones are good for what, and he was a pitcher! Hey Goldberg (and please don’t think I’m doing this to point you out because I don’t even know your personal standpoint on this issue, this is just something from another thread that I saw you post), you said that you’re pretty good friends with David Kelton I think (who I might add for the Cubs fans out there is an awesome third base prospect :-). Anyway, ask him if, in all of his playing days, steroids have ever been a big issue around the club house. If he says no, I would be ecstatic, knowing that at least my favorite organization stays away from them (Sammy Sosa aside). I’m kind of in the same boat as a lot of people, though, in saying that putting on 40-50 pounds over 2-3 years is highly unlikely in only a 4-5 month offseason without the use of androgens. Training for strength and size during the season makes one injury prone, so most probably don’t do it, nor do they have the energy, recovery time. etc.

Whew! Sorry about this being so long. I’m just deeply saddened by recent developments in baseball, as it’s my favorite sport and I’m quite passionate about it. Guess I just had a lot to say. And, as always, the opinions expressed here are solely my own and are in no way intended to point fingers, ridicule, or put ANYONE else down or what they say.

46

Goldberg, let me ask you a question. Do you believe the smaller professional wrestlers are on anything?

47

You guys kill me…just some one ins not a monster doesn’t mean theyare not on steroids…you have to look at the toal LBM gained. The big 3 were are skinny sons of bitches when the came into the pros. Go get a Sammy Sosa rookie card and see how dinky he was. Compared to that now, he’s huge, big hulking thighs and forearms.

Go get the Sports Illustrated issue were (i forget his name, he was a pitcher I think) was saying how basically his entire team was on steroids. Canseco admitted it too, and wouldn’t name others but said a shitload more were juicing as well.

So Canseco was a small guy right?

The sooner you accept the fact that most ballplayers are on steroids the sooner you’ll get over it.

48

Yea, to see pictures of Sammy, Bonds, and McGuire from 10 or so years ago are pretty telling but I’ll concede that it doesn’t necessarily mean that they are juicing,but Bonds put on 45 lbs. That’s a lot of chicken.
I want to believe Sosa. I really do. And this issue is seperate from the steroid issue. I still can’t get past 2 things:
First, there wasn’t very much cork in that bat. I know it only takes an ounce or 2 away but the demonstration I saw on TV drilled down about 5 or 6 inches. Why would he put it on the line for a fraction of an inch?
Secondly, he didn’t react like a guilty man. Of course he might just be a good actor.
As for bat speed (baseball lingo) it’s pretty damned important from the aspect of an ounce or 2. I have always favored a lighter bat. I’m a tall guy and liked to stay back on the ball as long as I could and still have good bat control. I never gave up power with a light bat vs. a heavy bat, but I sure did if my bat wasn’t quick because solid contact (making square contact with a round bat against a round ball) was harder to atain when I had to read that pitch that much quicker.

49

Im sure that some of the smaller wrestlers do use steroids. But are they the cream of the crop genetically? I think not.
Thats a good idea about asking David. He only comes around my hometown every now and then and i dont live there anymore so I see him sporadically. The last time i saw him he was visiting the mall where i live now and he grabbed my arm as I walked by the store he was in. I dont like call him on the phone and have chats or anything. He was at my moms middle school basketball game this year not that i think about it. His brother plays football, basketball, and baseball and some say that he is better than david was at that age.
Im not saying that these guys havent used anything. What i am saying is that they are not juice monsters and all they have done is not attributed to drugs. As far as numbers dropping, Bonds was hurt much of last year and saw absolutely nothing to hit (199 BB). Yet he still hit 46 homeruns. If he gets the same amount of at bats as last year hes on pace to hit 43. Thats not too much of a drop off. And you should expect some drop off from him as hes what 39? Yes bonds is my favorite player.

50

Corked bats really do not help you that much. I have used them and my brother who played minor league baseball used them in batting practice. It is a common thing for players to use them in BP to woo the fans. The risk of getting caught is not worth the negligible amount of help a corked bat will give you. I completely believe Sammy’s story. If it is so easy to hit like he does, why isn’t everyone corking their bats and hitting 60 home runs a year?

51

The reason I bring up wrestlers is that I know a very famous “smaller” professional wrestler who uses gear. You would never think he did simply because he’s not that big. I’m sure one of the biggest reasons he takes stuff is to recover and maintain what he has with such a chaotic travel schedule. RECOVERY!! I’m not saying steroids help guys hit the ball and I’m not trying to take anything away from these guys’ god given talent. I agree that these baseball players aren’t that huge, but they are able to hold onto their size inseason with a little help.

52

So you’re a Bonds fan, huh Goldberg? :slight_smile: That’s cool man, absolutely nothing wrong with that. In fact, I don’t even really include him in my “numbers dropping off” argument because, well, nobody will pitch to the guy anymore! I did bring that up when talking with my buddy last night. Barry Bonds, like him or not (and 'roids or not for that matter), has one of the most beautiful and fundamentally sound swings in the game. In fact, I’d probably say he has THE best swing in baseball now. Short (arms close to the body), fast, great contact. Bonds is just a freak of nature when it comes to baseball talent, right up there with A-Rod. All around, I still argue that A-Rod (sometimes maybe Guerrero) is the best player in the game. But when it comes to pure hitting, Bonds takes the cake. So…he doesn’t count :slight_smile: And yeah some will say I’m blowing a lot of smoke up his ass, but to be honest I don’t even like the guy. I think he has an attitude problem. But there’s no denying his talent. However, I will still stand for my argument for most everybody else. Because if there is a big difference in a couple of years and no one else is routinely hitting forty, fifty, sometimes close to sixty home runs a year like they have been, that’s just too coincidental to go unnoticed.

P.S. I mentioned David Kelton in my earlier post, but for the Cubs fans totally forgot to say he plays for the AAA Iowa Cubs. This guy has amazing promise for third base, especially with Bellhorn looking like he’s on his way out the door.

53

Oh joy, another physics lesson.

Here, lets approach it from another standpoint. The best golfers with the longest drives and best ball control have a technique that has been developed to maximize what the club and ball already give you. Its not about beating the fuck out of the ball, its about club speed that is generated with technique, mass of the implement, and the core of the ball to react to finding that sweet spot. I suspect a corked bat merely increases the sweet spot making it more likely to allow technique to take over. Its probably worth it to reduce the mass of the bat to increase the likelyhood of finding the spot on the ball that sends it into the cheap seats.

All I know is when I didn’t hit the ball right, it felt like hitting a wall. When I hit it right it was like hitting a superball which is odd when you are holding a baseball. The difference in ball placement on the bat was neglegible between the arm-shaking miss-hit and the solid smack over the fence.

Anyone watch McGwire? Nice, relatively lazy cut with perfect technique, perfect placement on the ball, coupled with the mass of the bat and the momentum of proper body movement put it way out.

Could it be bat speed? Perhaps. Could it be something else, maybe. Could it be a placebo, MAYBE. The truth is that batters do it for a reason and that reason is they tend to smack the ball better.

54

Don’t assume that because major leaguers do it that it must be of benefit to them in their craft. Just beacuse they play at the highest level doesn’t mean they accomplished what they have by applying intelegent concepts to their game.
All you have to do is look at the swings of some very sucessful players to see that they do things and get by on natural talent. If you had a kid and you taught him a good swing and showed him video of say Jeff Bagwell, he’d never believe that this guy could hit a ball like that. So why doesn’t Bagwell have a better, more technically sound swing? Is he about to get run out of baseball? Has he figured out something that nobody else has? No on both of the last 2 questions but he’s got so much God given ability that he can be stubborn and still mash.

55

Bonds is the greatest! Oh wait, that was a thread we had about 6 months ago.

Hey, I gained over 100 lbs over the last 10 years. I know pretty damn well I’m not on the juice. I’d venture to say Goldberg has probably gained 100 lbs over the last 10 years as well.

56

Renegadedragon-I was about to say that you were right except ten years ago i was 14 and weighed 215. so ive only gained 40 lbs since then. haha. i was such a fat ass then.

57

Ahh… 10 years ago I was 12 and about 130.

58

EC,

I can’t believe you’re hating on Sammy like this. Sammy’s my boy! Fo’ shizzle my bizzle!

59

Congrats to Sammy Sosa

60

Sammy Sosa will still be remembered as a legend and this will not tarnish his image. Babe Ruth got caught corking his bat in 1923 and nobody thinks that made him any less dominant. Plus the guy was on a liquid diet.

I will agree with the people that say it’s possible to put on that much size naturally. But with players like Caminiti, Canseco, and Gwynn coming out and saying how rampant drug use is in baseball, you’d be naive to deny that the biggest sluggers are juicing. Especially when they were 30 lbs lighter when they came into the league. That said, I don’t care if they do use steroids. The fact is, they are benefiting the most from the abililty to recover, and only a little from strength. How many people out there take steroids just to make themselves look better? These guys actually have a good reason to do it, and they have the best doctors monitoring their health.

Barry, Sammy, and Big Mac were all talented hard working players to begin with, that’s how they got to the majors. They’ve transformed themselves into super heroes and a lot of people out there look up to them. Sammy is the man and he’s under a lot of pressure to perform. Granted, we’d like to be so lucky to be in his shoes, but when superstars are suddenly unable to perform at their highest level, they freak out. I honestly believe that Sammy just used the cork because he wasn’t doing shit since he got beaned and this was an isolated incident.

I love Sammy because he plays hard every day and he’s good to the fans. I’m not a Cubs fan, but it’s hard not to like a guy like Sammy. He is a class act and people need to stop the hating.