So where does everybody stand in regards to this whole fiasco?? Should players be tested?? What percentage of MLB players do you think actually use roids?? How many sports commentators have made themselves look like complete idiots when they say that creatine is a steroid?? I’ve heard quite a few different opinions on this issue, but they have all come from people who aren’t exactly knowledgeable in terms of steroids, etc. That is, I’m sure we’re all aware that the media’s conception of steroids is still “roids=big muscles=anger=illegal.” I’m interested to hear thoughts from people who don’t subscribe to this misconception. Anybody??
Good question Nate. I have really mixed feelings about it and not sure what the hell they should do. On a related note, I heard Ken Camaniti(sp?) on the Jim Rome Show today and man, that is one f*cked up dood! First of all he was making NO SENSE and then he was taking back all the stuff he said in the CNN interview in regards to the steroids and how many players actually used them. Basically, he dragged baseball into this and now he’s feeling the heat big-time!! Lastly, even if they do test for it, they will find a way around getting caught. Look no further than the NBA, NFL…
One thing I’ve noticed about this argument lately is that there is a lot of misunderstanding about what is and what is not steroids. For example, I was listening to this interview with a baseball writer talking about the issue. As he said (went something like) “I went downstairs in my hotel and there was a drink with creatine in it. I mean it’s not like they are getting this stuff on the black market.” This nut think creatine is a steroid. I mean, come on! This stuff is found in red meat! Think back to McGuire. I’m sure a lot of people think he was using steroids when he used Androdiestione (sp?). Can you imagine if it were Mag-10, a pro-steroid. It seems like the public has the perception that anything that any supplement that helps you build muscle is a steroid. First step, clear up the difference between legal, league banned substances, and steroids.
Well just look at the other big drug-related thread on this sub-forum. It’s obvious that a vocal enough majority keeps pounding in the idea that all illegal drugs, just because they are drugs and illegal, are to be grouped together and equally demonized. Why take substances on a case-by-case basis when it’s easier for a moron to just be loud and simplify a situation to its most simplistic common denominator? Why take individual users on a case by case basis, either? That would force us to think too much about a situation when a slogan is so much easier to memorize. It’s just human nature to avoid thinking when someone else can do it for you and whatever requires your potential consideration doesn’t directly affect you. Let’s all chant “3 Strikes and you’re out,” while letting a rapist serve a 9 month suspended sentence.
I have my own opinion on the Mark McGwire and andro issue during his 70 home run season. I think that the andro was just a cover up for his steroid use. Who in their right mind would put a bottle of andro in their locker during a record setting season for everybody to see? People were starting to question if he used steriods, so he put the andro in his locker to make it look like that’s what was helping him. Just my two cents.
The more they test the more they’ll use. Look at the olympics, NFL…It will just cost the fan more to watch because of the drug testing politics. Personally, anything on a banned list to me is stuff I gotta get on. 'cause they only ban it if it helps. Juice in the past has been a lot easier to get and use so to say that this is responsible for balls getting out of the park is pretty stupid. It helps but give me a break, testostersone is not going to help you see the seems of the ball any better. It may make you slower depending on who you are and what you need. The fact is Babe Ruth hit 60 and Barry Bonds hit 73 or something…What is the difference between the two. Steroids? No. FUCKING DISCIPLINE, DISCIPLINE!!! BTW you guys are forgeting that Mag-10 and andro come up on steroid tests.
mcgwire had been doing ad spots for champion nutrition for a few years before the andro hoopla bullshit, and if i’m not mistaken i believe one his brothers had a vested interest in champiuon nutrition, i believe it was a great marketing ploy as well as to cover-up his steroid use, of course those clueless idiots in the media think andro is the same as juice, and that creatine is bad, and do more of a disservice to the general public because they’re to lazy to do any research or shudder investigative journalism…of course this whole steroids as testicle shriveling, cancer causing agents is all b.s. anyway, as by far the most dangerous drugs athletes use are legal and encouraged…PAINKILLERS!!! gee a player has an injury so lets numb it, shoot it up and play, irregardless of whether its torn, strained, pulled, or fractured…and of course that whole steroid crackdown by the nfl in the late 80s is b.s. anyway, because the players never got any smaller or had slower 40times after the “testing”, and half the players are hooked on painpills, because no player is healthy after week one, but the nfl will tell ya they’re drug-free because they’ve “banned” steroids and ephedrine, what hypocritical bullshit!!!
Either Bonds and Mcguire have great genetics to build big bodies or they are both on the juice. At the beginning of their careers they were borth normal sized people and then all of a sudden they are huge and hitting lots of homeruns.
Speaking of baseball and steroids, my school is playing in the DII national championship today. One of our players made the all american team and it is universally known at school that he uses steroids. In fact, most of the team has used at one time or another. Two guys on the tennis team this year got kicked off the team for using. If its happening at the DII level. Its happening everywhere.
I find it rather obvoius regarding steroid use involving McGwire and Bonds. I think back a few years to former Rockies player Donte Bichette put on 40 pounds in one off season (also Mike Piazza and others have done this). This being too frequent and quick to have been achieved through genetics. That is simply too much too fast to have been otherwise.
Camaniti stated that steroids enabled many deep flyouts to become home runs. Even if steroids caused a mere 5% jump in distance p/400ft this would bring an extra 20 feet per fly ball. Quite a difference.
Regarding tainted records (if one considers them as such) I think a far larger issue would be the ever shrinking ballparks. More than the steroids you see these opposite field home runs in particular because of the increasingly shorter distances that are requiered for a four-bagger. Example: IN 1998 McGwire hit 70 Home runs. The ballpark included approximately 372ft power alleys and a centerfield of 402. IN contrast to “Old Yankee Stadium” in 1927 in which Ruth achieved 60 home runs. LF power alley: 460 CF: 490 PR power alley: 395-415 (judging from aerial photos). Out of simple curiosity I purchased a book that indicated each of McGwire’s home runs. With the distance of each one I placed that in Ruth’s park (plus an averaged out distance of the others he played on the road) and conclusion is very enlightening. His 70 HR’s drop to only 36HR’s!
That is almost HALF (this is only one factor, This does not even cover strike zone size, the baseball and bats themselves, nor expansion). The point I’m trying to make here is that steroid use makes a difference yes. But not even close to the results drastically smaller outfield distances generate in eschewing historic records.
Next: Camaniti’s retraction of his accusations are obviously pressure induced. Plus his blatant steroid abuse did him no favors either. Not including cycles in his steroid routine was extremely…well dumb to be blunt.
Lastly, I do believe they should test for steroids. However, there are many ways around these tests as demonstrated in the NFL, NBA, and Olympics. I find it rather impossible to end steroid use in sports. The only other alternative (an unattractive solution obviously) would be armed gaurds with hte players 24/7. Something impossible and not even right. Quite a quandry this situation is; provided one is concerned about this issue.
These guys do have great genetics, juice or no juice. Every pro athlete has gifts that normal people will always struggle to understand. The fact is that when Barry was playing in AZ(farm league) he had his forearm strength tested and he tested higher that the organization had ever seen. That was back when he was a skinny shit talking stick with an afro. McGuirre was a frigging pitcher. These guys just have what it takes to succeed. Juice may have helped but maybe not. Arnold never had a problem admitting to using Steroids but he said it was only 5% of the whole pie to his success. I think that is what it is for any other athlete as well. And you never really know how these guys trained before they got to the pros. A lot of these guys depend strictly on good genes to get by and eat McDonalds all the time, they are so gifted they can get through college and their first few years in the pros. Then come higher expectation, so naturally they look at their training and nutrition. And they have such sick genetics they blow up in a few years. If you don’t believe me talk to Coach Davies, he has seen plenty of world class athletes take humongous strides once they train properly. And stop eating KFC everyday. But damn that SI issue with the needles on the front is soooooooooooooooo typical media. I think every high school Baseball player just went out looking for juice after that.
Nevertheless it is extremely rare for anyone period to gain much kind of muscle in so short of time span. However I dont doubt his strength beforehand. But as I stated other major changes in baseball has contributed far more to the record-shattering than steroids. At least as a collective group.
McGwire was always, big but he just got bigger as he got older. A lot of people fill out as they get older. Also, McGwire had 48 or 49 homeruns his rookie year. I bet you that McGwire and Bonds have been hitting a lot of homeruns since they were little kids. I’m not saying that they didn’t used, but juice will not make you a better ballplayer if you suck already.
Hell, I say forget the testing in ALL sports. I say it will level the playing field. It’s a fairly-known fact that most sports have a large, chemically-enhanced population. So I say, quit trying to find them. Then at least the athletes would not have to take more drugs to mask the performance enhancing drugs. Take all the money they spend on testing and give out free hot-dogs and baseball caps!!!
First of all, the media has blown this topic way out of proportion. With Ken Caminiti and Jose Canseco saying that 50-85% of players uses steroids (like Jesse Ventura would say) is just a load of crap. They were two former MVPs that became angry because they were not able to compete with the new guys and the older power-hitters and wanted to discredit and defame superstars of their stature. The media has not been handling the situation in a professional manner. Their interviews with the baseball superstars have been nothing but invasion of privacy. The media has been pushing their luck with the players. Why do you think that Sammy Sosa became irate when being interviewed by Reilly? Hey media, BACK OFF!!!
Barry Bonds and Sammy Sosa are two homerun hitters that have taken a lot of time and effort to make themselves the best baseball players they can be. Barry’s off-season training is intense, probably like that of Jerry Rice’s. Sure, he and Slammin’ Sammy have grown a lot since the time they were rookies. With proper nutrition and strenuous exercise, it is no problem. Do you think we can compare players in college with players in the pros? In just about every sport, players would grow bigger and stronger as they age.
Like I said earlier, the media has been pushing their luck with the players. Bonds and Sosa said they were in favor with testing for steroids. The media would say that’s a load of crap. I don’t think that either one of them was hiding behind the baseball union to protect them from something. They don’t have anything to hide.
To the media: Instead of asking superstar players to promote the testing of steroids in baseball, why don’t you ask average size players to show everyone that their numbers are real. It is possible that superstar players are genetic freaks. Hey, even you as the media are genetic freaks, especially Skip Bayless. Skip Bayless, I call you Skip Dickless. I dare him to interview Barry face-to-face. I’ll bet your balls would shrink as fast as WorldCom and Enron’s bank accounts.
In regards to your division II remark. To me it seems there are almost more users at the lower collegiate levels because they are tested less often. But it could be the division I football programs I have been associated with just cover it up more. But in my mind, I still have to give them the innocent until proven guilty.
Anyone seen the new SI? there’s an interesting little blurb in there (pg.25) from wade Exum, the former drug control administrator for USOC. He says that the USOC covered up positive tests for medal winners, and that he’s going to name names in a few months. And then there’s the articles on T-Mag with Charlie Francis, in which he discusses Olympic doping control. As far as training goes, I see college athletes training over the summer, and I’m left scratching my head and wondering why they haven’t injured themselves yet given their horrific training methods. Most athletes that I’ve known never took weight training very seriously, they were able to rely on their natural gifts. It was the guys who weren’t very gifted athletically that made the most progress in the gym because they knew that their natural abilities wouldn’t carry them very far, so they worked hard, and worked smart. I still argue with kids over the benefits of weight training. A lot of them just don’t see the point. Of course, these are the kids who are naturally gifted athletes. In the case of Bonds and Big Mac, I think that we’re seeing the combination of juice and good training.
fans pay money to see homeruns. The more homeruns the more money for the people up top. Players who use steroids will increase their ability to hit more homeruns thus bringing in more money. Testing will probably force ticket sales to increase and possibly decrease the amount of homeruns. It’s all about money.
The testing is SUCH bull shit. If they caught every user then there would be no one to play the games. Sure, some of the athletes are probably clean but they are in the vast minority… You have to have incredible gifts and then agument them to be a pro athlete, sad but true.
And speaking of pros and juice, did anyone watch Wimbleton? Does tennis test? Have the Williams sisters been tested?
Someone earlier mentioned the NBA. Do you think testing for steroids is just a waste of time there, or do you think anybody there uses anything? I could see possibly some of the centers in an attempt to not get pushed around so much by Shaq. They certainly should try something. And does anybody think that steroids may aid batting average? I never played much baseball, but I was really curious about this. Let’s say that a player just got stronger without adding muscle mass, for the sake of argument. Could that improve bat speed? If so, would that not allow more freedom with reaction time? Obviously we’re talking about very small percentages, but very small percentages separate the players at that level. Also, do you think control of the bat would increase? Think of swinging a twenty pound bat and ten pound bat. Which one would be easier to control? Just curious.