The conventional line of thinking has a person drop creatine 4-6 weeks out from competition game day as it can promote water retention.
I’ve been coming across the occasional statement (blogs, personal websites) that discuss cutting creatine 4-6 weeks out then loading it 7-10 days out. The principle is the same as carb depletion/loading. I’m having no luck finding any true professional articles/discussion. I’m wondering if anyone knows of any articles/more detailed info relating to this?
I’m currently 10 weeks out from a competition and am interested in this concept as it seems logical. I don’t jump on bandwagons or think “I work with a dude who knew a dude who dated some chick whose brother guarantees this works” is a valid argument.
I thought the ‘water retention’ was where you want (or need) it, i.e. in the muscle. Dont see why cutting it ou would help, dont see why creatine would make you hold water where you don’t want it (i.e. subcutaneous) its not loaded with sodium afterall.
[quote]Old Dax wrote:
I thought the ‘water retention’ was where you want (or need) it, i.e. in the muscle. Dont see why cutting it ou would help, dont see why creatine would make you hold water where you don’t want it (i.e. subcutaneous) its not loaded with sodium afterall.[/quote]
It does tend to make the stomach bloat a bit.
I think it depends on how much though. If you’re only taking around 5 grams per day (maintenance), you needn’t worry about bloating.
Scants - If no-one more experienced gives you any more clues, I’d follow what they do when carb loading. Carb loading only lasts 2-5 days precompetition (the period it takes to “load” up the muscles, but not enough to get water under skin). So you would stop the creatine for a month or so, and then load up a few days before the competition…
It should only take 2 - 5 days for the muscles to “fill up” using creatine, so I wouldn’t load up on it for long…otherwise you’d probably risk looking soft.
Everyone’s different, some people can carb load for 3 or 4 days before seeing any negative effects, and others have to stop a load after just 2 days.
[quote]Old Dax wrote:
I thought the ‘water retention’ was where you want (or need) it, i.e. in the muscle. Dont see why cutting it ou would help, dont see why creatine would make you hold water where you don’t want it (i.e. subcutaneous) its not loaded with sodium afterall.[/quote]
It does tend to make the stomach bloat a bit.
I think it depends on how much though. If you’re only taking around 5 grams per day (maintenance), you needn’t worry about bloating.[/quote]
Bloating? I can imagine getting stomach bloating when using a large dose of monohydrate with insufficient water, perhaps.
And what is the logic behind stopping and then loading creatine?
[quote]Old Dax wrote:
I thought the ‘water retention’ was where you want (or need) it, i.e. in the muscle. Dont see why cutting it ou would help, dont see why creatine would make you hold water where you don’t want it (i.e. subcutaneous) its not loaded with sodium afterall.[/quote]
From what I can piece together, the principle of dropping it a few weeks out is to dry you out (not true “drying out” as in depleting water the day before game day) and then loading up at the last few days in order to fill the muscles. The idea is not to be on it long enough to risk subcutaneous water retention.
[quote]Old Dax wrote:
I thought the ‘water retention’ was where you want (or need) it, i.e. in the muscle. Dont see why cutting it ou would help, dont see why creatine would make you hold water where you don’t want it (i.e. subcutaneous) its not loaded with sodium afterall.[/quote]
It does tend to make the stomach bloat a bit.
I think it depends on how much though. If you’re only taking around 5 grams per day (maintenance), you needn’t worry about bloating.[/quote]
5 grams a day is not “maintenance”, it is the maximum your body can absorb and seriously I don’t know why people keep talking about “loading” because if you take more than 5g or so it won’t be absorbed by your body. There is nothing scientific behind the idea of loading.
As I stated in another thread:
The idea of loading (20-25g per day for 7 days) came from professor Harris, initiator of research relating to the effect of creatine on the muscle of the sportsman, and reveal how he came to use this protocol: This researcher came from London to make his research in Stockholm. In order to reduce his costs of transport, he left England on monday and had to come back the next sunday. He did not have very much time to take his measurements; where the idea of the megadose during 5 to 7 days. This protocol has nothing scientist and is certainly not optimal, it also distorts the results of many studies.
So please, stop talking about loading and the sad part is that it is still encouraged because companies sells more creatine!
as shown in this study 20 grams is a lot more than your body can absorb in a day, let alone for five straight days. the study shows that you lose about 8 grams on the first day. That goes up to 12 grams on the third day â?? more than half of your daily intake in the loading phase.Vandenberghe K, et al. Long-term creatine intake is beneficial to muscle performance during resistance training. Journal of Applied Physiology 83: 2055-2063. 1997
5g is an indicator, It is roughly more or less 5g but I assume you knew what I meant. Like glend’s post show, the body can’t absorb that much. We can affirm 5g(maybe a bit more) being roughly the maximum your body can absorb daily to short or long term. By loading, creatine urinary loss are important and the internal production of the body risk to be affected. There is no real need to go beyond that daily intake.
I don’t know why you are asking me this question, I am just relating a fact. I assume he did this because he tought that a megadose would full the muscle of creatine faster. It is obviously unuseful and do not speed obtaining a finding.
As I said, I’m no expert on creatine. Personally, I don’t “load” as in the sense of taking mega doses (never take in more than 5g/day).
Last time I’ve seen studies on creatine was where they said that if you didn’t want to “load up” you can take in small amounts and it would take about 30 days to “fill up”.
I still feel that you can enhance creatine uptake (and get a “fuller” effect)…
[quote]Old Dax wrote:
I thought the ‘water retention’ was where you want (or need) it, i.e. in the muscle. Dont see why cutting it ou would help, dont see why creatine would make you hold water where you don’t want it (i.e. subcutaneous) its not loaded with sodium afterall.[/quote]
It does tend to make the stomach bloat a bit.
I think it depends on how much though. If you’re only taking around 5 grams per day (maintenance), you needn’t worry about bloating.[/quote]
Bloating? I can imagine getting stomach bloating when using a large dose of monohydrate with insufficient water, perhaps.
And what is the logic behind stopping and then loading creatine?[/quote]
I think the bloating depends on what you said, and quality.
The cycling creatine part was only going along with what the OP said he was going to do. I meant if he is going to do it, just to follow the same procedure that he would when carb loading. Personally, I wouldn’t see the benefit in stopping/starting it.
5g is an indicator, It is roughly more or less 5g but I assume you knew what I meant. Like glend’s post show, the body can’t absorb that much. We can affirm 5g(maybe a bit more) being roughly the maximum your body can absorb daily to short or long term. [/quote]
What I asked was, what basis do you have for claiming absorption is limited to 5 g per day? All you are doing is asserting it again rather than providing even a trace of evidence.
“Obviously unuseful” ?
Again, do you have a trace of actual evidence?
From your posts, it would seem that you just run things by what seems “obvious” to you and if your mind answers back “it’s obvious” then you present it as a fact.
But what is needed is an actual trace of evidence.
It may well be (I don’t know) that only about 5 g of creatine is absorbed at a time, but to claim this as a daily limit surely needs a trace of evidence behind it.
What, you can absorb 5 g if you take it in the morning let’s say, but if you try to take anything also in the evening it can’t be absorbed because 5 g was taken up in the morning?