[quote]Mr.Purple wrote:
Would you drop the workout carbs if dieting, or just cut out starchy carbs outside of the gym, and keep the PWO shake?[/quote]
Yah exactly. When dieting I focus most of my carbs around breakfast,pre and post workout. I just limit them in the other meals.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Yes, that is mostly because they ate like shit the rest of the time and not because it was a protein shake specifically. If you see better progress from it, keep doing it. That isn’t the point being made. The point made is that not drinking a protein shake should not decrease anyone’s progress unless there are some major defects elsewhere in what they are doing overall.
I don’t drink a protein shake because I have zero appetite for the first hour after training and that shake would end up on the floor if I tried to shove one down right after a workout. It would end up spewed like the backside of a rocket if I tried to drink one on leg or back day.
I simply eat as soon as my appetite comes back.[/quote]
I’m just curious here, I know you said you would not be able to stomach it, but don’t you think having a shake within 5 minutes of finishing your workout is more beneficial than having to wait an hour to be able to stomach solid food? On top of that you have to then allow like 30-45 mins for digestion before any nutrients actually get to your muscles.
I mean with my setup I get 1100 calories, 168g carbs, and 92g protein within 5-10 mins of finishing my workout. I’d say that is going to trigger a pretty massive anabolic response.
What you are doing is obviously working but I’m just kind of playing the devils advocate here 
-be skepitcal of online training “experts” who preach extreme training philosophies and disregard other strategies…
Example:
“the only way to get big and strong is to use an upper/lower split with free weights, training three days a week and never use a machine to do isolation exercises. by the way, NEVER train arms directly!”- Coach Know-It-All
[quote]waylanderxx wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Yes, that is mostly because they ate like shit the rest of the time and not because it was a protein shake specifically. If you see better progress from it, keep doing it. That isn’t the point being made. The point made is that not drinking a protein shake should not decrease anyone’s progress unless there are some major defects elsewhere in what they are doing overall.
I don’t drink a protein shake because I have zero appetite for the first hour after training and that shake would end up on the floor if I tried to shove one down right after a workout. It would end up spewed like the backside of a rocket if I tried to drink one on leg or back day.
I simply eat as soon as my appetite comes back.
I’m just curious here, I know you said you would not be able to stomach it, but don’t you think having a shake within 5 minutes of finishing your workout is more beneficial than having to wait an hour to be able to stomach solid food? On top of that you have to then allow like 30-45 mins for digestion before any nutrients actually get to your muscles.
I mean with my setup I get 1100 calories, 168g carbs, and 92g protein within 5-10 mins of finishing my workout. I’d say that is going to trigger a pretty massive anabolic response.
What you are doing is obviously working but I’m just kind of playing the devils advocate here ;)[/quote]
I get simple carbs in me immediately. I have done that for about a decade now and yes, it works just fine. There is just no reason for me to force a protein shake down when doing so would leave me feeling like I’m going to vomit.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
I get simple carbs in me immediately. I have done that for about a decade now and yes, it works just fine. There is just no reason for me to force a protein shake down when doing so would leave me feeling like I’m going to vomit.[/quote]
Ah ok, I was under the impression that you were waiting an hour + before you put anything into your body. I was kind of confused lol
[quote]waylanderxx wrote:
Professor X wrote:
I get simple carbs in me immediately. I have done that for about a decade now and yes, it works just fine. There is just no reason for me to force a protein shake down when doing so would leave me feeling like I’m going to vomit.
Ah ok, I was under the impression that you were waiting an hour + before you put anything into your body. I was kind of confused lol[/quote]
Dude, you just saw me write that the goal is to get some type of food in you immediately. Everyone can’t stomach a full meal or meal replacement minutes after training. If Gatorade is all I can grab, that’s what I’ll have.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
waylanderxx wrote:
Professor X wrote:
I get simple carbs in me immediately. I have done that for about a decade now and yes, it works just fine. There is just no reason for me to force a protein shake down when doing so would leave me feeling like I’m going to vomit.
Ah ok, I was under the impression that you were waiting an hour + before you put anything into your body. I was kind of confused lol
Dude, you just saw me write that the goal is to get some type of food in you immediately. Everyone can’t stomach a full meal or meal replacement minutes after training. If Gatorade is all I can grab, that’s what I’ll have.[/quote]
And to support what X said, X told me to do this half a year ago.
Needless to say, I’m nearly 200lbs now (then I was around 160 then, I believe).
awesome thread… question, does the amount of fat consumed have any effect on whether or not PWO becomes more anabolic, or is it just protein for muscles, and carbs for the insulin spike?
anabolic is correlated to speed of absorption/utilization. Fats slow this process therefore PWO carb/protein drink no fat, however PW meal thereafter good fats are a likely Go.
someone more versed correct me if i’m wrong.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Dude, you just saw me write that the goal is to get some type of food in you immediately. [/quote]
You said “soon”, and then along with the fact that you said you have no appetite until an hour later, I just put two and two together. Too much room for interpretation
It’s crystal now though.
[quote]cyruseven75 wrote:
anabolic is correlated to speed of absorption/utilization. Fats slow this process therefore PWO carb/protein drink no fat, however PW meal thereafter good fats are a likely Go.
someone more versed correct me if i’m wrong. [/quote]
You worded that well, thats pretty much the gist of it. I prefer to have no fats in my PWO shake and then stick with <10g for the following meal. After that, I up the fats.
I see guys drinking protein shakes in the locker room. Yuck.
Trust me, 130lb guy, you will not shrink if you wait till you get out of the locker room to drink that.
Yeah the people who focus way too much in details (insulin sensivity, very strict timing, rest periods, exact tempo) and think they failed to grow because of that WILL fail. Looking at the big picture and doing with consistency is the way to go. A succesful mindset is also crucial.
[quote]waylanderxx wrote:
cyruseven75 wrote:
anabolic is correlated to speed of absorption/utilization. Fats slow this process therefore PWO carb/protein drink no fat, however PW meal thereafter good fats are a likely Go.
someone more versed correct me if i’m wrong.
You worded that well, thats pretty much the gist of it. I prefer to have no fats in my PWO shake and then stick with <10g for the following meal. After that, I up the fats.[/quote]
Honestly though, if you are getting enough calories throughout the day, how much difference do you think a pwo shake vs. meal makes?
sweet cheers, didnt realise fat slowed anabolism
[quote]pro-a-ggression wrote:
sweet cheers, didnt realise fat slowed anabolism[/quote]
What? Fat does NOT slow “anabolism”. that doesn’t even make sense. “Anabolism” is the term given to the act of building up body tissues. Fat may slow DIGESTION but there is no way fat can “slow anabolism”.
Again, most of the guys here would do better buying a college level biology book before they buy even one more book from a personal training author.
[quote]dre wrote:
Honestly though, if you are getting enough calories throughout the day, how much difference do you think a pwo shake vs. meal makes? [/quote]
The whole point is that a shake allows me to get enough calories. I have four 550 calorie shakes throughout the day. On top of that I eat 5 solid meals. There is no way I could sit down for 9 meals with school and a job.
And like I said my PWO shake is over one thousand calories. If I actually ate a solid meal with that much it would probably take me 45 minutes just to eat it all. I’d rather drink it and not have to worry about it.
And it really does come down to timing your nutrients. That window PWO is crucial and I don’t want to waste it.
[quote]waylanderxx wrote:
dre wrote:
Honestly though, if you are getting enough calories throughout the day, how much difference do you think a pwo shake vs. meal makes?
The whole point is that a shake allows me to get enough calories. I have four 550 calorie shakes throughout the day. On top of that I eat 5 solid meals. There is no way I could sit down for 9 meals with school and a job.
And like I said my PWO shake is over one thousand calories. If I actually ate a solid meal with that much it would probably take me 45 minutes just to eat it all. I’d rather drink it and not have to worry about it.
And it really does come down to timing your nutrients. That window PWO is crucial and I don’t want to waste it.[/quote]
That’s exactly what I thought you were going to say. Just wanted to make sure I understood what you were saying. Thanks.
To throw arbitrary numbers around:
98% of people who use supplements think the supplements will make up for their lack of effort in the gym or for their poor diet (my past self included).
86% of statistics are made up on the spot.