College Learning?

Off Topic
81

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]Tex Ag wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]Tex Ag wrote:

The issue there is how do you determine pay. Right now teaching pay is insignificant to research pay.[/quote]

Are they proportional to the income derived from them?

Granted, not every researcher is an awesome teacher, and every teacher is not an awesome research/developer, but if their pay is proportional to their value, there really is no reason to fuss.
[/quote]

Income for the university? Or for the student?

How would you determine value?

Well, I would guess most research once published is read by a few dozen people in their field. Teachers can teach 300+ a semester. Which do you think is going to make a bigger impact?

I understand some research leads to significant discoveries/inventions/changes in how we do things. But, behind much of that research are teachers who provided information & guidance that helped the person get there.

I cannot remember if it was Steve Jobs or Bill Gates (I think Jobs, so it is probably Gates) that credits a calligraphy class as being significant to his take on computers.[/quote]

Didn’t like that question, huh?

300 students at $300.00/credit for 3 credits course= $270,000.00/semester. 2 semesters per year, maybe 3 puts the total income for teaching at 540 to 770K . One Professor I know currently makes in the range of 120K/year+ earnings garnered writing textbooks. He’s getting a pretty good percentage of those earnings.

Compared to-

or

Another friend of mine worked at the same university as those two as a chief of his field of medicine. Between his duties as a surgeon and professor, he was also developing new drugs, technologies, and performing speaking engagements and demonstrations of the new technologies worldwide, all of which the institution benefited a great deal from.

It seems to me that the research guys really do earn their keep. Developing and contributing to intellectual property can be extremely lucrative.
[/quote]

It is not so much I did not like the question, as it is one that should be asked, but rather you are asking to compare two things, one you can more easily value than the other. It leads to a poor comparison at best. Also, it depends on what you think the role of a university is because that is what is going to answer the questions more than anything.

I never said that researchers do not deserve to be paid well, my point is that it is hard to determine the value teaching brings to the university whereas (as you have shown) it is easier to demonstrate what researchers can bring in. This also depends on the field of study as well. Research in the sciences have greater market value than research in the humanities.

However, I still think a main role of a university is to educate through teaching with is difficult to value, especially to the individual. I would argue that the pay is not proportional but what worries me more is how the university values research over teaching which I have highlighted before.

82

[quote]Sharp4850 wrote:
I know I’m a little late to the party, but in reference to the original post, I think a lot of this perceived and actual laziness stems from the fact that an A is the new C.
Meaning, for many courses, if you only do exactly what is on your syllabus or what is assigned, you get an A. Used to be you only got an A for work done above and beyond what was expected (or that is my perception of it). You have a bunch of people walking around with As and Bs who only put in an “average” amount of work.
That said, so far this semester I basically spend most of my free time studying. But my educational goals include more than just a good grade. [/quote]

Some of this stems from pressure to give A’s because that is what the students paid for, right? As more universities compete for students there has been a shift (I mentioned it earlier) in business models where students are consumers of the university, where a customer is always right mentality can set in. This will depend on the school but there is definitely grade inflation.

I think Harvard has the worst reputation for this, ‘you got into Harvard so you deserve A’s’. I have even seen their degrees discounted in business rankings because of this. When I taught at a very expensive NE private school I frequently ran in to students who thought showing up for most of the classes (here where most is greater than half) was enough to get an A. Parents who would start the conversation with, “I pay a lot of money to send my kid here…” But we are all special, deserve trophies for participating, and get A’s for showing up some of the time. That said, there were also some very bright and very hard working students who did not bring this attitude with them. But the entitlement attitude definitely was pervasive. I see less of that at state schools.

83

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]overstand wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]Tex Ag wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]Tex Ag wrote:

The issue there is how do you determine pay. Right now teaching pay is insignificant to research pay.[/quote]

Are they proportional to the income derived from them?

Granted, not every researcher is an awesome teacher, and every teacher is not an awesome research/developer, but if their pay is proportional to their value, there really is no reason to fuss.
[/quote]

Income for the university? Or for the student?

How would you determine value?

Well, I would guess most research once published is read by a few dozen people in their field. Teachers can teach 300+ a semester. Which do you think is going to make a bigger impact?

I understand some research leads to significant discoveries/inventions/changes in how we do things. But, behind much of that research are teachers who provided information & guidance that helped the person get there.

I cannot remember if it was Steve Jobs or Bill Gates (I think Jobs, so it is probably Gates) that credits a calligraphy class as being significant to his take on computers.[/quote]

Didn’t like that question, huh?

300 students at $300.00/credit for 3 credits course= $270,000.00/semester. 2 semesters per year, maybe 3 puts the total income for teaching at 540 to 770K . One Professor I know currently makes in the range of 120K/year+ earnings garnered writing textbooks. He’s getting a pretty good percentage of those earnings.

Compared to-

or

Another friend of mine worked at the same university as those two as a chief of his field of medicine. Between his duties as a surgeon and professor, he was also developing new drugs, technologies, and performing speaking engagements and demonstrations of the new technologies worldwide, all of which the institution benefited a great deal from.

It seems to me that the research guys really do earn their keep. Developing and contributing to intellectual property can be extremely lucrative.
[/quote]

It all depends man. If you cure polio, you’re going to get a hell of a lot more grant money than if you’re studying the reproductive cycle of some new species of bacteria only found on Rosie O’Donnels right butt cheek. The former are definitely the exception rather than the rule. Tex Ag is right when he says most research might be seen by a dozen people after its been published.
[/quote]

You’re right, but I’m righter! :slight_smile:
[/quote]

So I guess that leaves me with rightest

84

[quote]Vinnie85 wrote:
went to UF majoring in Industrial eng (insert jokes here about IE not being an actual eng degree)… I coasted to high school no prob (graduated with a weighted gpa of 4.6 and 3.8 unweighted) and my first couple of semesters in college the OP’s 1st post is pretty much a good break down of what i did. Junior year started taking classes relevant to my major (not just gen ed stuff)… Started studying much much more… by my 5th year i was not involved in anything outside of seeing friends every now and then… my last semester was hell…

so in conclusion i agree with Prof X… any technical degree or pre-med track is gonna take work outside of the prodigies… if your major is aligned with the liberal arts colleges then not so much…

also in addition to the learnings i think the social aspect of a dedicated 4 year university (i.e. UF, FSU, non commuter schools, non CC) played a huge impact on the person i am today. being 6 hours away from family u cook, u clean, u take care of ureself… sure mom and dad still fronted some of the bill (got 100% bright futures) for living expenses but even then i took care of myself… in addition to that i really think in those 4 years i matured into a man (yes cliche)… there’s lessons that one learns from being away from home that a person can’t learn when going to a commuter school or a CC. yes i understand i was lucky enough to have parents that could support me, but either way there is a difference between a 4 year college and university of phoenix online… [/quote]

College is what you make it. Yes, we have all heard that before, but I really don’t think most understand what that means.

If you are starting college and you have not researched what your prospective job makes on average per year, how saturated that market is, and the long term success in a field like that, you deserve what you get.

If you are in some major that you KNOW won’t make much money, you have no one to blame when you graduate and remain flat broke or can’t find a job for 5 years.

They had us look into this in high school. By the 11th grade I knew what most jobs I was interested in made per year and was creating five year goals on paper in class. It seems as if most in college don’t even consider this shit until they’ve wasted a few thousand dollars and fucked up their GPA skipping class.

College is not to blame for this. Dumb ass students are to blame for this along with a society that allows people to make it to that age with no thought towards their future.

I went to the library myself and reviewed chapters in textbooks before the professor got to it. That way class was more of a review.

I never for once expected the teacher to hand me everything I needed to know and force feed it to me. I expected them to teach, but I was well aware that the real work was left to me on my own.

Who doesn’t know this?

85

[quote]Sharp4850 wrote:
I know I’m a little late to the party, but in reference to the original post, I think a lot of this perceived and actual laziness stems from the fact that an A is the new C.
Meaning, for many courses, if you only do exactly what is on your syllabus or what is assigned, you get an A. Used to be you only got an A for work done above and beyond what was expected (or that is my perception of it). You have a bunch of people walking around with As and Bs who only put in an “average” amount of work.
That said, so far this semester I basically spend most of my free time studying. But my educational goals include more than just a good grade. [/quote]

College is the new high school. Simply going to college for a basic degree is not enough anymore to push you into a higher income bracket or field of study. Grad school, med school, dental school, law school are the new “college”.

A basic college degree is so common now that you NEED way more on your resume just to stand out. It seems this is still news to many.

I will say that if I saw an applicant for a job who had NO college education at all, they would likely not get hired aside from very menial tasks.

86

Speaking of law school, I hear the market is waaaay over saturated in the US. Apparently new law schools are popping up everywhere.

87

[quote]therajraj wrote:
Speaking of law school, I hear the market is waaaay over saturated in the US. Apparently new law schools are popping up everywhere.
[/quote]

It is oversaturated at this point. Everyone and their momma is always talking about how they are going to get their degree once they finally pass the bar exam.

The field with the greatest long term potential is still health care.

You have people going to school majoring in gym class complaining that college is a waste of time.

Research before you go to college and I bet much of the current confusion would die down.

88

I’ve mentioned this in a previous thread, but if you are a business major you need to focus on building your social and networking skills more than any other major. It’s important to join clubs, go to career nights and socialize regularly. Sure, a business major is not as class intensive as other majors, but you won’t be successful in this field without great social skills.

If you are the type of person who is quiet and likes to stay home on Saturday nights watching a movie , then this major is not for you.

89

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:
Speaking of law school, I hear the market is waaaay over saturated in the US. Apparently new law schools are popping up everywhere.
[/quote]

It is oversaturated at this point. Everyone and their momma is always talking about how they are going to get their degree once they finally pass the bar exam.

The field with the greatest long term potential is still health care.

You have people going to school majoring in gym class complaining that college is a waste of time.

Research before you go to college and I bet much of the current confusion would die down.[/quote]

Yeah healthcare will always be tops.

Shit my parents tried pushing me to become a doctor. But after taking grade 11 biology and having to dissect a fetal pig, I said fuck that. I couldn’t get the smell of formaldehyde out of my nose for a week!

90

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:
Speaking of law school, I hear the market is waaaay over saturated in the US. Apparently new law schools are popping up everywhere.
[/quote]

It is oversaturated at this point. Everyone and their momma is always talking about how they are going to get their degree once they finally pass the bar exam.

The field with the greatest long term potential is still health care.

You have people going to school majoring in gym class complaining that college is a waste of time.

Research before you go to college and I bet much of the current confusion would die down.[/quote]

lol @ majoring in gym class.

My mom works at a physio clinic, kiniseologist makes $17/hour and part of their job is doing laundry.

91

Also, professor X now I’m curious. Will you share with us the details of your efforts to secure a record deal?

What kind of records were you making?

92

[quote]therajraj wrote:
Also, professor X now I’m curious. Will you share with us the details of your efforts to secure a record deal?

What kind of records were you making?[/quote]

I was much smaller and had curly hair. I fit a different image and my voice matched it. My voice is a little deeper now so if you heard any of those songs, you would think I sounded like a member of Nsync in comparison. I tried to follow the styles of Maxwell, Sade and people like that. No, I won’t put any of those songs on the internet at this point because I don’t sound the same and hopefully I could do better at this point…but I had tons of songs recorded in studio, had tracked down random artists just to hand out my demo, and was actually offered a deal with Elektra but I was underaged at the time and my parents were completely against it.

Edit: There was a group named “Ideal” that had one or two hits that was our main competition in talent shows on campus in college. They got a record deal but didn’t last very long…which is the main reason I am glad I got my degree in the end.

That’s all I will say about that.

93

Go figure…they have their own Wiki page:

94

I’m a 3rd year student studying economics and accounting.
My average day:

10 hours of sleep
12 hours relaxing
1 hour at the gym
1 hour of class

I’ll only go to 1 class a day, and I don’t crack open any books, ever. In fact I don’t even study for some of my finals, university is such a joke.

Ps. I go to a school with a well respected econ program.

95

One of my friends who is 42 now spent the ages 24-30 trying to get his band to take off after graduating university. It didn’t so he began his career and now makes a 6 figure income.

Although he failed, I thought it was still pretty cool he pushed hard to follow his dream.

96

[quote]graudani wrote:
I’m a 3rd year student studying economics and accounting.
My average day:

10 hours of sleep
12 hours relaxing
1 hour at the gym
1 hour of class

I’ll only go to 1 class a day, and I don’t crack open any books, ever. In fact I don’t even study for some of my finals, university is such a joke.

Ps. I go to a school with a well respected econ program.[/quote]

No offense, but those of you only going to one class a day…why post that here as if your schedule is an average day for a college student?

I took 19 hours one semester. Trust me, there was no “10 hour sleeping” going on or 12 hours of relaxing.

If you guys are bullshitting your way through college, OF COURSE you have tons of free time.

97

[quote]therajraj wrote:
One of my friends who is 42 now spent the ages 24-30 trying to get his band to take off after graduating university. It didn’t so he began his career and now makes a 6 figure income.

Although he failed, I thought it was still pretty cool he pushed hard to follow his dream.[/quote]

Oh, I didn’t stop until I lost contact with a decent producer. I was still writing some music in dental school until that point. He was the keyboard man though and I relied on his ear for music. I am the last person to tell someone not to go for a dream like that. I just know that a smart person has a back up and for me, while my heart was in music, I was still busting ass in class as well. That world is EXTREMELY shady. People in it have the one goal of making money off of you regardless of what actually happens to you.

98

Its the get something for nothing, you owe it to me just because I’m here, mentality of alot of members of this generation. When your parents are paying for your school, or you’re taking out loans and aren’t thinking about the consequences of paying back that money, you don’t appreciate the value of the education, and thus aren’t as dedicated to getting as much out of it as possible.

That doesn’t apply to everybody, but I think it applies to more people than it doesn’t. Both my dad and grandpa had to join the military to get school paid for. I would imagine they appreciated their education more than the prince/princess who has dad paying for school and spends all weekend partying with the sorority/frat bro-skies rather than studying.

I had to get a scholarship to be able to attend school. I spent a lot more time studying and appreciating the opportunity because if I didn’t maintain a certain gpa, I would have got the boot. Granted the scholarship was for athletics, but the principle still applies.

99

I think the GPA increases are due to more students taking PE credits like weightlifting and Elective credits like Fly Fishing or Billiards. Some schools only give you a P/F which doesn’t affect the GPA, but other schools will give you letter grades, everyone gets an A who shows up, boosting the GPA.

100

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]graudani wrote:
I’m a 3rd year student studying economics and accounting.
My average day:

10 hours of sleep
12 hours relaxing
1 hour at the gym
1 hour of class

I’ll only go to 1 class a day, and I don’t crack open any books, ever. In fact I don’t even study for some of my finals, university is such a joke.

Ps. I go to a school with a well respected econ program.[/quote]

No offense, but those of you only going to one class a day…why post that here as if your schedule is an average day for a college student?

I took 19 hours one semester. Trust me, there was no “10 hour sleeping” going on or 12 hours of relaxing.

If you guys are bullshitting your way through college, OF COURSE you have tons of free time.[/quote]

Hard to believe students are having trouble graduating in 4 or even 5 years. Can you believe six year programs are becoming more normal - not including a masters? Many campuses do not have classes before 9:30 a.m. and none on Friday because they are unpopular with the students. The average course load I have heard from my students is 14 hours. Once I found out my college did not charge for extra hours over 18, I had 19 to 23 hour semesters because I wanted to take the extra classes for free so I could learn about topics outside my major. I found it easier to focus on learning when I was busy learning. Maybe there is a lesson there.

But then X, we are over 30 so they should not listen to us anyways.

I am glad there are more examples of those striving to make the most of the college educational experience on this board (so far) than not.