College Learning?

Off Topic
61

[quote]pja wrote:

[quote]Tex Ag wrote:

Case in point, the ability to get outside funding in more important than ability to teach when it comes to gaining employment as tenure track jobs (based on a decade of looking at the job ads and talking to department chairs/deans/etc.)
[/quote]
As a University professor (I am as well) you should know better than anybody that Universities are profit driven. This isn’t going to change. Also the research professors do can benefit the classes that they teach and the funding that professors bring in, which for most R1/R2 universities dwarfs the total money they gain from tuition, goes towards improving computer labs, recreation facilities,etc. 50% of all research dollars I bring in gets sucked up by the university never to be seen by me…its called “overhead”
[/quote]

Technically For-profit universities are profit driven… The lack/cut of gov’t funding over the past few decades has forced a change in the business model of universities. Their realities changed. I am not anti-research, I think there is a general benefit to humanity and some real benefit for students who get to participate in it. My problem is that the emphasis on research and external funding necessarily subordinates the traditional role of universities, which is educating. I think there are places for research only faculty and teaching only (by only I mean more like 80/20).

The issue there is how do you determine pay. Right now teaching pay is insignificant to research pay.

62

[quote]Tex Ag wrote:

The issue there is how do you determine pay. Right now teaching pay is insignificant to research pay.[/quote]

Are they proportional to the income derived from them?

Granted, not every researcher is an awesome teacher, and every teacher is not an awesome research/developer, but if their pay is proportional to their value, there really is no reason to fuss.

63

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]Tex Ag wrote:

The issue there is how do you determine pay. Right now teaching pay is insignificant to research pay.[/quote]

Are they proportional to the income derived from them?

Granted, not every researcher is an awesome teacher, and every teacher is not an awesome research/developer, but if their pay is proportional to their value, there really is no reason to fuss.
[/quote]

Income for the university? Or for the student?

How would you determine value?

Well, I would guess most research once published is read by a few dozen people in their field. Teachers can teach 300+ a semester. Which do you think is going to make a bigger impact?

I understand some research leads to significant discoveries/inventions/changes in how we do things. But, behind much of that research are teachers who provided information & guidance that helped the person get there.

I cannot remember if it was Steve Jobs or Bill Gates (I think Jobs, so it is probably Gates) that credits a calligraphy class as being significant to his take on computers.

64

[quote]Tex Ag wrote:
The context of my curiosity is that I am a university professor and am well aware of the back and forth of what ‘no one is learning anything in college’. I am more interested in what are current student expectations and what can be done to engage the student more/raise their expectations of both the class and themselves as a student.

Exaggerated cliff notes:
According to reports, half of college students are lazy and their education sucks.
Why?[/quote]

I am now “faculty/staff” i.e., was full time faculty for several years before getting a great full time research gig at a university.

One other bit of thinking on this comes from a very good book on surviving disasters (as in who does and why) called “Unthinkable”. The author points out that the most reliable stats we have on heros comes from the Carnegie Hero Fund. A demographic shift has occurred and in the last 30 years, of the 300 or so people who have earned a medal for a self-less act of heroism, only four or around 1% had gone to a university. This ought to be the most alarming statistic you’ll read if you are teaching at a university. It means that an education systematically renders moral choice or action impossible, even in dire emergencies (such as helping victims of a plane crash). These are the people who will take over the country and run it, eventually, too…

As for learning itself, I realized long ago I cannot teach anyone anything (normally I get excellent teacher reviews, I might add). People must teach themselves and more importantly, must find a reason to do the work. The osrt of supermarket approach to classes cranks out hordes of barely literate students. While there are happy exceptions, by and large they find no reason to do anything and indeed, mostly cannot. About all I can see getting out of a university education is enough of an overview of a field that if you can sometime figure out a reason to do so, you can teach yourself what you need. This is the practical effect of mass education in the US. (I also went through the German university system too, and have another set of gripes about that, but we’ll keep it simple.)

And as always, I might just be full of shit…

– jj

65

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Squiggles wrote:
College is a waste of time and money.

People say bullshit like it builds life skills, but that’s crap. College is a bubble - kids go there, move into a room, and they live in this little fake-world known as ‘campus’, and don’t really grow up much at all. If one’s looking to mature and get experience and whatnot, join the military or travel to a different country or volunteer with people in a completely different socio-economic class.

I got freaking A’s throughout college and did nothing of worth. Read hundreds of pages of crap I could find on the Internet in 5 seconds, had stupid ‘discussions’ with peers who are dumb as doorknobs, did million of mini quizzes and extra curricular crap, and the entire time I was thinking, “I can teach myself this stuff with a couple weeks of intense study on my own.” I felt like I was wasting my time so much that I dropped out during my junior year because I couldn’t stand the worthlessness of it. I’m making good cash now and am smarter than the majority of individuals I meet.

There’s college, and there’s education. One is a game and the other is life.

EDIT: I should clarify that college has it’s place – but it’s expanded beyond that. College is a place where people should study medicine, law, science. Everyone should learn the basics in high school. College has become a money game, and now everyone ‘has’ to go and there’s ten million BS majors that are completely and utterly WORTHLESS. Higher education has been subsidized to the point that it’s made itself a joke.

My first two years of classes were BS, basically a fast review of everything learned in high school. I don’t want to be a scientist or a doctor, so why bother going? People don’t think like that, though, they just assume college is a rule.[/quote]

I loved college. I learned a ton about people and life in general. What major did you have? I didn’t need to study as much as some others…to the point that I was tutoring other people in the same classes I was taking, but I would never in a million years pretend that the Biology degree with a math minor was as easy as some of you are pretending.

It makes me wonder what all of you geniuses are doing now that you are done with that institution holding you back.

I hope it is something spectacular.

I spent much of my free time my first couple of years trying to get a record deal. I probably spent more time writing music and lyrics than I ever did studying…and I wouldn’t trade one minute of that.

No, college isn’t for everyone…but people acting like it is a waste should be blowing the hinges off the world once they get out…or else it seems like ALL TALK.[/quote]

You can rap?

66

[quote]WhiteTiger711 wrote:
I’m in Biomedical Engineering and nothing pisses me off more then hearing the marketing people in the library complain about their stupid projects. /endrant[/quote]

U mad?

67

[quote]ashylarryku wrote:
I don’t know what these kids are smoking in the OP’s post, but that is NOT how I spend my day. The majority of my day is spent in class, in the gym, in the library, in the kitchen, on T-Nation (lol), and then I’ll have a few hours to kill to hang out with friends. I’m in my 5th semester of civil engineering though, it’s a joke how easy the business majors have it here at KU (no class on Fridays!)[/quote]

Don’t hate, just because I am majoring in the second and tenth highest paid fields in the world and don’t have classes on Friday. Haterz gonna hate!

68

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Squiggles wrote:
College is a waste of time and money.

People say bullshit like it builds life skills, but that’s crap. College is a bubble - kids go there, move into a room, and they live in this little fake-world known as ‘campus’, and don’t really grow up much at all. If one’s looking to mature and get experience and whatnot, join the military or travel to a different country or volunteer with people in a completely different socio-economic class.

I got freaking A’s throughout college and did nothing of worth. Read hundreds of pages of crap I could find on the Internet in 5 seconds, had stupid ‘discussions’ with peers who are dumb as doorknobs, did million of mini quizzes and extra curricular crap, and the entire time I was thinking, “I can teach myself this stuff with a couple weeks of intense study on my own.” I felt like I was wasting my time so much that I dropped out during my junior year because I couldn’t stand the worthlessness of it. I’m making good cash now and am smarter than the majority of individuals I meet.

There’s college, and there’s education. One is a game and the other is life.

EDIT: I should clarify that college has it’s place – but it’s expanded beyond that. College is a place where people should study medicine, law, science. Everyone should learn the basics in high school. College has become a money game, and now everyone ‘has’ to go and there’s ten million BS majors that are completely and utterly WORTHLESS. Higher education has been subsidized to the point that it’s made itself a joke.

My first two years of classes were BS, basically a fast review of everything learned in high school. I don’t want to be a scientist or a doctor, so why bother going? People don’t think like that, though, they just assume college is a rule.[/quote]

I loved college. I learned a ton about people and life in general. What major did you have? I didn’t need to study as much as some others…to the point that I was tutoring other people in the same classes I was taking, but I would never in a million years pretend that the Biology degree with a math minor was as easy as some of you are pretending.

It makes me wonder what all of you geniuses are doing now that you are done with that institution holding you back.

I hope it is something spectacular.

I spent much of my free time my first couple of years trying to get a record deal. I probably spent more time writing music and lyrics than I ever did studying…and I wouldn’t trade one minute of that.

No, college isn’t for everyone…but people acting like it is a waste should be blowing the hinges off the world once they get out…or else it seems like ALL TALK.[/quote]

You can rap?[/quote]

No…now tell me again just how many stereotypes I actually fit into.

69

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Squiggles wrote:
College is a waste of time and money.

People say bullshit like it builds life skills, but that’s crap. College is a bubble - kids go there, move into a room, and they live in this little fake-world known as ‘campus’, and don’t really grow up much at all. If one’s looking to mature and get experience and whatnot, join the military or travel to a different country or volunteer with people in a completely different socio-economic class.

I got freaking A’s throughout college and did nothing of worth. Read hundreds of pages of crap I could find on the Internet in 5 seconds, had stupid ‘discussions’ with peers who are dumb as doorknobs, did million of mini quizzes and extra curricular crap, and the entire time I was thinking, “I can teach myself this stuff with a couple weeks of intense study on my own.” I felt like I was wasting my time so much that I dropped out during my junior year because I couldn’t stand the worthlessness of it. I’m making good cash now and am smarter than the majority of individuals I meet.

There’s college, and there’s education. One is a game and the other is life.

EDIT: I should clarify that college has it’s place – but it’s expanded beyond that. College is a place where people should study medicine, law, science. Everyone should learn the basics in high school. College has become a money game, and now everyone ‘has’ to go and there’s ten million BS majors that are completely and utterly WORTHLESS. Higher education has been subsidized to the point that it’s made itself a joke.

My first two years of classes were BS, basically a fast review of everything learned in high school. I don’t want to be a scientist or a doctor, so why bother going? People don’t think like that, though, they just assume college is a rule.[/quote]

I loved college. I learned a ton about people and life in general. What major did you have? I didn’t need to study as much as some others…to the point that I was tutoring other people in the same classes I was taking, but I would never in a million years pretend that the Biology degree with a math minor was as easy as some of you are pretending.

It makes me wonder what all of you geniuses are doing now that you are done with that institution holding you back.

I hope it is something spectacular.

I spent much of my free time my first couple of years trying to get a record deal. I probably spent more time writing music and lyrics than I ever did studying…and I wouldn’t trade one minute of that.

No, college isn’t for everyone…but people acting like it is a waste should be blowing the hinges off the world once they get out…or else it seems like ALL TALK.[/quote]

You can rap?[/quote]

No…now tell me again just how many stereotypes I actually fit into.[/quote]

On a scale from 1 to 10 how much do you like chicken/

70

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Squiggles wrote:
College is a waste of time and money.

People say bullshit like it builds life skills, but that’s crap. College is a bubble - kids go there, move into a room, and they live in this little fake-world known as ‘campus’, and don’t really grow up much at all. If one’s looking to mature and get experience and whatnot, join the military or travel to a different country or volunteer with people in a completely different socio-economic class.

I got freaking A’s throughout college and did nothing of worth. Read hundreds of pages of crap I could find on the Internet in 5 seconds, had stupid ‘discussions’ with peers who are dumb as doorknobs, did million of mini quizzes and extra curricular crap, and the entire time I was thinking, “I can teach myself this stuff with a couple weeks of intense study on my own.” I felt like I was wasting my time so much that I dropped out during my junior year because I couldn’t stand the worthlessness of it. I’m making good cash now and am smarter than the majority of individuals I meet.

There’s college, and there’s education. One is a game and the other is life.

EDIT: I should clarify that college has it’s place – but it’s expanded beyond that. College is a place where people should study medicine, law, science. Everyone should learn the basics in high school. College has become a money game, and now everyone ‘has’ to go and there’s ten million BS majors that are completely and utterly WORTHLESS. Higher education has been subsidized to the point that it’s made itself a joke.

My first two years of classes were BS, basically a fast review of everything learned in high school. I don’t want to be a scientist or a doctor, so why bother going? People don’t think like that, though, they just assume college is a rule.[/quote]

I loved college. I learned a ton about people and life in general. What major did you have? I didn’t need to study as much as some others…to the point that I was tutoring other people in the same classes I was taking, but I would never in a million years pretend that the Biology degree with a math minor was as easy as some of you are pretending.

It makes me wonder what all of you geniuses are doing now that you are done with that institution holding you back.

I hope it is something spectacular.

I spent much of my free time my first couple of years trying to get a record deal. I probably spent more time writing music and lyrics than I ever did studying…and I wouldn’t trade one minute of that.

No, college isn’t for everyone…but people acting like it is a waste should be blowing the hinges off the world once they get out…or else it seems like ALL TALK.[/quote]

You can rap?[/quote]

No…now tell me again just how many stereotypes I actually fit into.[/quote]

LOL

71

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]WhiteTiger711 wrote:
I’m in Biomedical Engineering and nothing pisses me off more then hearing the marketing people in the library complain about their stupid projects. /endrant[/quote]

U mad?[/quote]

Depends, do you wear a suit while you do your arts and crafts projects?

72

[quote]Professor X wrote:
…
No…now tell me again just how many stereotypes I actually fit into.[/quote]

Black people are scary?

73

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Squiggles wrote:
College is a waste of time and money.

People say bullshit like it builds life skills, but that’s crap. College is a bubble - kids go there, move into a room, and they live in this little fake-world known as ‘campus’, and don’t really grow up much at all. If one’s looking to mature and get experience and whatnot, join the military or travel to a different country or volunteer with people in a completely different socio-economic class.

I got freaking A’s throughout college and did nothing of worth. Read hundreds of pages of crap I could find on the Internet in 5 seconds, had stupid ‘discussions’ with peers who are dumb as doorknobs, did million of mini quizzes and extra curricular crap, and the entire time I was thinking, “I can teach myself this stuff with a couple weeks of intense study on my own.” I felt like I was wasting my time so much that I dropped out during my junior year because I couldn’t stand the worthlessness of it. I’m making good cash now and am smarter than the majority of individuals I meet.

There’s college, and there’s education. One is a game and the other is life.

EDIT: I should clarify that college has it’s place – but it’s expanded beyond that. College is a place where people should study medicine, law, science. Everyone should learn the basics in high school. College has become a money game, and now everyone ‘has’ to go and there’s ten million BS majors that are completely and utterly WORTHLESS. Higher education has been subsidized to the point that it’s made itself a joke.

My first two years of classes were BS, basically a fast review of everything learned in high school. I don’t want to be a scientist or a doctor, so why bother going? People don’t think like that, though, they just assume college is a rule.[/quote]

I loved college. I learned a ton about people and life in general. What major did you have? I didn’t need to study as much as some others…to the point that I was tutoring other people in the same classes I was taking, but I would never in a million years pretend that the Biology degree with a math minor was as easy as some of you are pretending.

It makes me wonder what all of you geniuses are doing now that you are done with that institution holding you back.

I hope it is something spectacular.

I spent much of my free time my first couple of years trying to get a record deal. I probably spent more time writing music and lyrics than I ever did studying…and I wouldn’t trade one minute of that.

No, college isn’t for everyone…but people acting like it is a waste should be blowing the hinges off the world once they get out…or else it seems like ALL TALK.[/quote]

You can rap?[/quote]

No…now tell me again just how many stereotypes I actually fit into.[/quote]

Well if you don’t rap, must be you can sing Gospel? :wink:

74

[quote]WhiteTiger711 wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]WhiteTiger711 wrote:
I’m in Biomedical Engineering and nothing pisses me off more then hearing the marketing people in the library complain about their stupid projects. /endrant[/quote]

U mad?[/quote]

Depends, do you wear a suit while you do your arts and crafts projects?[/quote]

Dude, I don’t even wear a suit except on Saturday night Mass. The rest of the time I wear cowboy boots and blue jeans.

75

[quote]Tex Ag wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]Tex Ag wrote:

The issue there is how do you determine pay. Right now teaching pay is insignificant to research pay.[/quote]

Are they proportional to the income derived from them?

Granted, not every researcher is an awesome teacher, and every teacher is not an awesome research/developer, but if their pay is proportional to their value, there really is no reason to fuss.
[/quote]

Income for the university? Or for the student?

How would you determine value?

Well, I would guess most research once published is read by a few dozen people in their field. Teachers can teach 300+ a semester. Which do you think is going to make a bigger impact?

I understand some research leads to significant discoveries/inventions/changes in how we do things. But, behind much of that research are teachers who provided information & guidance that helped the person get there.

I cannot remember if it was Steve Jobs or Bill Gates (I think Jobs, so it is probably Gates) that credits a calligraphy class as being significant to his take on computers.[/quote]

Didn’t like that question, huh?

300 students at $300.00/credit for 3 credits course= $270,000.00/semester. 2 semesters per year, maybe 3 puts the total income for teaching at 540 to 770K . One Professor I know currently makes in the range of 120K/year+ earnings garnered writing textbooks. He’s getting a pretty good percentage of those earnings.

Compared to-

or

Another friend of mine worked at the same university as those two as a chief of his field of medicine. Between his duties as a surgeon and professor, he was also developing new drugs, technologies, and performing speaking engagements and demonstrations of the new technologies worldwide, all of which the institution benefited a great deal from.

It seems to me that the research guys really do earn their keep. Developing and contributing to intellectual property can be extremely lucrative.

76

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]Tex Ag wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]Tex Ag wrote:

The issue there is how do you determine pay. Right now teaching pay is insignificant to research pay.[/quote]

Are they proportional to the income derived from them?

Granted, not every researcher is an awesome teacher, and every teacher is not an awesome research/developer, but if their pay is proportional to their value, there really is no reason to fuss.
[/quote]

Income for the university? Or for the student?

How would you determine value?

Well, I would guess most research once published is read by a few dozen people in their field. Teachers can teach 300+ a semester. Which do you think is going to make a bigger impact?

I understand some research leads to significant discoveries/inventions/changes in how we do things. But, behind much of that research are teachers who provided information & guidance that helped the person get there.

I cannot remember if it was Steve Jobs or Bill Gates (I think Jobs, so it is probably Gates) that credits a calligraphy class as being significant to his take on computers.[/quote]

Didn’t like that question, huh?

300 students at $300.00/credit for 3 credits course= $270,000.00/semester. 2 semesters per year, maybe 3 puts the total income for teaching at 540 to 770K . One Professor I know currently makes in the range of 120K/year+ earnings garnered writing textbooks. He’s getting a pretty good percentage of those earnings.

Compared to-

or

Another friend of mine worked at the same university as those two as a chief of his field of medicine. Between his duties as a surgeon and professor, he was also developing new drugs, technologies, and performing speaking engagements and demonstrations of the new technologies worldwide, all of which the institution benefited a great deal from.

It seems to me that the research guys really do earn their keep. Developing and contributing to intellectual property can be extremely lucrative.
[/quote]

It all depends man. If you cure polio, you’re going to get a hell of a lot more grant money than if you’re studying the reproductive cycle of some new species of bacteria only found on Rosie O’Donnels right butt cheek. The former are definitely the exception rather than the rule. Tex Ag is right when he says most research might be seen by a dozen people after its been published.

77

went to UF majoring in Industrial eng (insert jokes here about IE not being an actual eng degree)… I coasted to high school no prob (graduated with a weighted gpa of 4.6 and 3.8 unweighted) and my first couple of semesters in college the OP’s 1st post is pretty much a good break down of what i did. Junior year started taking classes relevant to my major (not just gen ed stuff)… Started studying much much more… by my 5th year i was not involved in anything outside of seeing friends every now and then… my last semester was hell…

so in conclusion i agree with Prof X… any technical degree or pre-med track is gonna take work outside of the prodigies… if your major is aligned with the liberal arts colleges then not so much…

also in addition to the learnings i think the social aspect of a dedicated 4 year university (i.e. UF, FSU, non commuter schools, non CC) played a huge impact on the person i am today. being 6 hours away from family u cook, u clean, u take care of ureself… sure mom and dad still fronted some of the bill (got 100% bright futures) for living expenses but even then i took care of myself… in addition to that i really think in those 4 years i matured into a man (yes cliche)… there’s lessons that one learns from being away from home that a person can’t learn when going to a commuter school or a CC. yes i understand i was lucky enough to have parents that could support me, but either way there is a difference between a 4 year college and university of phoenix online…

78

[quote]overstand wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]Tex Ag wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]Tex Ag wrote:

The issue there is how do you determine pay. Right now teaching pay is insignificant to research pay.[/quote]

Are they proportional to the income derived from them?

Granted, not every researcher is an awesome teacher, and every teacher is not an awesome research/developer, but if their pay is proportional to their value, there really is no reason to fuss.
[/quote]

Income for the university? Or for the student?

How would you determine value?

Well, I would guess most research once published is read by a few dozen people in their field. Teachers can teach 300+ a semester. Which do you think is going to make a bigger impact?

I understand some research leads to significant discoveries/inventions/changes in how we do things. But, behind much of that research are teachers who provided information & guidance that helped the person get there.

I cannot remember if it was Steve Jobs or Bill Gates (I think Jobs, so it is probably Gates) that credits a calligraphy class as being significant to his take on computers.[/quote]

Didn’t like that question, huh?

300 students at $300.00/credit for 3 credits course= $270,000.00/semester. 2 semesters per year, maybe 3 puts the total income for teaching at 540 to 770K . One Professor I know currently makes in the range of 120K/year+ earnings garnered writing textbooks. He’s getting a pretty good percentage of those earnings.

Compared to-

or

Another friend of mine worked at the same university as those two as a chief of his field of medicine. Between his duties as a surgeon and professor, he was also developing new drugs, technologies, and performing speaking engagements and demonstrations of the new technologies worldwide, all of which the institution benefited a great deal from.

It seems to me that the research guys really do earn their keep. Developing and contributing to intellectual property can be extremely lucrative.
[/quote]

It all depends man. If you cure polio, you’re going to get a hell of a lot more grant money than if you’re studying the reproductive cycle of some new species of bacteria only found on Rosie O’Donnels right butt cheek. The former are definitely the exception rather than the rule. Tex Ag is right when he says most research might be seen by a dozen people after its been published.
[/quote]

You’re right, but I’m righter! :slight_smile:

79

[quote]Otep wrote:
I graduated with a 3.24 GPA in Accounting.

I feel like the OP describes my time division somewhat accurately, though I slept a few hours more, skipped a little more class and made up for it by doing more homework.

If the ‘lessons of college’ are non-academic, they can be learned simply by living on ones own, and therefore are not the ‘lessons of college’.

I did not enjoy my college years. Mostly because I honestly wasn’t socially mature enough to understand the hows or whys of networking. I’ve always been a loner, and spent most of my college this way, and so was relatively miserable. But with high points- I started and ran my own business, and I travelled abroad, neither of which I would have done had I not gone to college.

My major-specific classes were challenging to many, but did not become challenging to me until my junior year, At which point I began having to re-take classes and lost a scholarship. I changed my study-habits enough to once again become a B-student. Both the amount of time I spent in class and the amount of work I did (on my own and with others) went up at least a couple of hours a day, on average.

Upon graduation, I found finding work in the accounting field too arduous for serious consideration, and took a job on education just to have a job. I like my work, but I admit, I could have done it upon graduating high-school (even though I wouldn’t have been certifiable in the field).

Like many things in life, I wish I could do college over. More, I wish I had not been pressured by my parents and my finances to rush into college immediately after high school. I felt doing so did a disservice to me, though it seemed the wisest course to me and many others at the time. And, had I not gone to college when I did, I likely would be in a buddhist monastery right now instead of typing this. Its debatable on which path I would be happier.

I feel that business majors coming out of my alma mater learned as much as they did ten, twenty, or thirty years ago. I also feel that college in general is a scam, and that most undergraduates are un-or-undereducated. I work with math teachers who can’t factor polynomials, and who regularly mispell ‘slope’.

The OP seems accurate for the broad field of education, even though it doesn’t fit my particular circumstance.[/quote]

This hits WAY too close to home :(. Except I’ve got two more years of undergrad left and the rest of the story hasn’t happened to me.

80

I know I’m a little late to the party, but in reference to the original post, I think a lot of this perceived and actual laziness stems from the fact that an A is the new C.
Meaning, for many courses, if you only do exactly what is on your syllabus or what is assigned, you get an A. Used to be you only got an A for work done above and beyond what was expected (or that is my perception of it). You have a bunch of people walking around with As and Bs who only put in an “average” amount of work.
That said, so far this semester I basically spend most of my free time studying. But my educational goals include more than just a good grade.