after reading t-man vs e-man and the war on estrogen articals it would appear that you could use clomid and arimadex (sp?) as and alternative to steroids for gaining mass. the trouble is the articals are not too clear on how this may be done. has anyone tried this or have any ideas on how it may be done?? and are there any side affects re rebound of T or E after use etc.
I know some one is gonna just tell me to do roids but i’m asking a question, please just give me a straight answer!
Bill Roberts will probably be here shortly to give you are better explanation, but in the mean time -
A-dex and clomid are an Aromatase inhibitor, and a Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator(SERM), respectively.
They lower estrogen, or prevent it from binding.
Some say there is some muscle building affect when using these chemicals - but I don’t think there is much to that.
You can cut fat by using them - but that can be dangerous as you need a certain level of estrogen in your body. It can also cause cholesterol/BP problems, which is not good.
Anyhow - just sit and wait for Mr. Roberts to give you the skinny.
Funny, I just asked the same question on my “PRE-Cycle AE” post. It looks to me that a Femara/Clomiphene combo could indeed boost your T safely at low doses. I doubt it would compare to a real cycle but it’s less illegal and less prone to cause unwanted side effects. The only way to really know is have your endocrine levels tested, do the AEs for a couple months and retest. If anyone else has tried this I’d be interested in the results.
[quote]Kruiser wrote:
Funny, I just asked the same question on my “PRE-Cycle AE” post. It looks to me that a Femara/Clomiphene combo could indeed boost your T safely at low doses. I doubt it would compare to a real cycle but it’s less illegal and less prone to cause unwanted side effects. The only way to really know is have your endocrine levels tested, do the AEs for a couple months and retest. If anyone else has tried this I’d be interested in the results.[/quote]
Femara can take E levels too low and that can wreck libido… not a desired objective. Anastrozole is self limiting and safer to use. Femara would need BW to watch levels, but many do fly blind. Nolvadex is a good SERM. Clomid also is a SERM, but needs higher doses. Its estrogenic side effects can make some guys emotional in a feminine way. Lower doses can mean lower sides. Some profiles suggest that Nolvadex is a better choice.
By lowering E and ‘blinding’ the HP of the HPTA to the effects of E, one can increase T levels. Certainly not to levels anywhere near those of a cycle. But there may be some good results. Certainly an easy, inexpensive and non-invasive method. If you do not care for the results, you will have these on hand for PCT if you go after gear.
Using an SERM by itself, will increase T, but serum E levels will also be increasing, not decreasing. An abrupt stop to use of an SERM can then let the HP see the high levels of E and that can shut you down or take T levels lower than your baseline. So SERMs need to be tapered off and AI to lower E levels also has a part to play with SERMs.
so what your saying is that it is a potential waste of time unless my endocrine levels are on the crappy side. good info guys thanks. might looks into a cycle-o-roids. looks like the way to go! will wait and see if mr roberts chimes in with some cylcle lengths and dosages
No, as Rainjack said, even though in theory it seems a reasonable to thing to think that they would aid mass gains when used alone, as they increase T, this doesn’t seem to happen in practice.
Actually on the blood lipid profile many users see improvement with the selective estrogen receptors (at least Clomid and Nolvadex, probably all of them) though not with the aromatase inhibitors which yield a worsening.
As mentioned in another thread, while a SERM alone doesn’t seem to do anything or surely not much for mass gain, using moderate dose HCG plus the SERM can give a nice improvement for the non-steroid user or as a bridge. The HCG by itself could potentially (not usually) lead to estrogen problems in those sensitive to that, and the resulting increased T suppresses LH production: the SERM blocks or compensates for both these effects, so the combination is nice.