Clip of Someone Ramping Up

Training Bodybuilding
81

and same thing with that assitance on that 4x8 I would work in sets of 8, with the last final set of 4 being the hardest/all out…so the other sets were pretty hard, but that last set was the real tough one.

OR is it better for the asistance to just go (if my target rep range is still a max of 8 reps)

to do a few sets with less reps, higher weight…to go to a TRUE 8 rep all out (which is A LOT more like a maximal effort method)

Because there is actually a big difference in what you do in this instance.

82

Dude, I addressed that in my Bodybuilding Bible thread several times.

Working warmup sets are NOT the same thing as regular warmup sets and the jumps and weights you give are highly likely not going to give you enough volume (tonnage AND total reps) for growth.

When people write 3 x 8 - 10, why would they write this if they meant 4 sets of 8,5,3,8?

I wrote this before and I’ll show an example again!

Sample quad workout:

SQUATS
Warmup sets (use whatever the heck scheme you need to get loose and warmed up)
135 x 10
165 x 8
195 x 6
225 x 3

Work sets:
255 x 8 - 10
285 x 8 - 10
315 x 8 - 10

Next up: LUNGES (NO NEED FOR WARMUPS ANYMORE!)
35s x 8 - 10
40s x 8 - 10
45s x 8 - 10

Next up: LEG EXTENSIONS
80 x 8 - 10
90 x 8 - 10
100 x 8 - 10

As I’ve written before, my jumps are about 10 percent of my top set. Usually I’ll use a 5% jump between my second to last and final set. This does NOT induce fatigue for me, but rather provides me with a set that is close enough to my top set to give me a feel for it. I’ve noticed no detriment to performance for years doing this and when doing max effort work in a powerlifting workout is suggested as well.

As I’ve outlined before AD FUCKING NAUSEUM for max effort work (1 to 3 rep max in a Westside kinda routine):
Let’s use 405 as the last set:

bar x 3
85 x 3
125 x 3
165 x 3
205 x 3
245 x 3
285 x 3
325 x 1
365 x 1
385 x 1
405 x 1

Dave Tate discussed this recently in an article too.

83

So basically MODOK is doing the same exact thing I do but in reverse - ramping down. And I assume (perhaps mistakenly) that you, MODOK, do this by reducing the weight by about 10 percent.

84

[quote]MODOK wrote:

[quote]rasturai wrote:
lol oh well mmm I see what you mean ramped/warmed up…When I did BBB I did the same thing for squats…say it was 13-15 rep day…I’d go in and do 400x15 for first set all out approcahing failure…then 365x15, 315x15…and then I’d be completely wiped out.

I was just wondering though if you were to do that with benches…liek you did tonight…335x12, 300x11, 275x11

What would you do if you wanted to do Incline DB presses after that…and say your target rep range was between 8-10 reps.

That’s where I’m confused. Would I do my first set (all out and get 115x10) just from warmuped up slightly with 50x6, 70x5, 90x6, 115x10…**all out to failure

Or would I do if I have a rep range of 4 sets of 10 would I instead go 60x10, 75x10, 90x10, 110x10*all out.

That’s where I’m confused.

I’m confused on the assistance exercise whether to just do a few reps to get primed then go all out, or to do a 4x8…and work up in those and on the 4th set go all out.[/quote]

If I were to do incline DB after the bench, I wouldn’t warm up again. I’d grab my top weight and nail the heavy set first, then have to drop weight on sets 2 and 3 due to fatigue. Assistance work is different though- depending on the movement and your reason for doing it. Some assistance moves (face pulls, etc.) you don’t try and advance the weight as much. You are doing the movement just because it needs to be done for balance. If you are doing stuff like board presses or lockouts however, you do push those as hard as possible because you are needing to get a LOT out of the movement.

As far as whether to ramp or not, just do what you are comfortable doing. None of this shit is really superior to the other. Just do what you do well, bust your ass, and try not to think all that much about it.[/quote]

Modok, I have always thought a quick warmup to a max weight to failure followed by a drop in weight to a second set to failure and then a final drop to failure made more sense to me. I know that goes against the grain here and I am not the strongest or even close to the strongest on this website by the posted weights I have seen by most T-members but it just feels right. I have always thought this was called reverse pyramids. I progress the max weight for the 1st set wen I can get 12+ reps. I think you can use this method for 1-3, 6-8, or 8-12 reps.

85

[quote]MODOK wrote:

[quote]bwhitwell wrote:

[quote]MODOK wrote:

[quote]rasturai wrote:
lol oh well mmm I see what you mean ramped/warmed up…When I did BBB I did the same thing for squats…say it was 13-15 rep day…I’d go in and do 400x15 for first set all out approcahing failure…then 365x15, 315x15…and then I’d be completely wiped out.

I was just wondering though if you were to do that with benches…liek you did tonight…335x12, 300x11, 275x11

What would you do if you wanted to do Incline DB presses after that…and say your target rep range was between 8-10 reps.

That’s where I’m confused. Would I do my first set (all out and get 115x10) just from warmuped up slightly with 50x6, 70x5, 90x6, 115x10…**all out to failure

Or would I do if I have a rep range of 4 sets of 10 would I instead go 60x10, 75x10, 90x10, 110x10*all out.

That’s where I’m confused.

I’m confused on the assistance exercise whether to just do a few reps to get primed then go all out, or to do a 4x8…and work up in those and on the 4th set go all out.[/quote]

If I were to do incline DB after the bench, I wouldn’t warm up again. I’d grab my top weight and nail the heavy set first, then have to drop weight on sets 2 and 3 due to fatigue. Assistance work is different though- depending on the movement and your reason for doing it. Some assistance moves (face pulls, etc.) you don’t try and advance the weight as much. You are doing the movement just because it needs to be done for balance. If you are doing stuff like board presses or lockouts however, you do push those as hard as possible because you are needing to get a LOT out of the movement.

As far as whether to ramp or not, just do what you are comfortable doing. None of this shit is really superior to the other. Just do what you do well, bust your ass, and try not to think all that much about it.[/quote]

Modok, I have always thought a quick warmup to a max weight to failure followed by a drop in weight to a second set to failure and then a final drop to failure made more sense to me. I know that goes against the grain here and I am not the strongest or even close to the strongest on this website by the posted weights I have seen by most T-members but it just feels right. I have always thought this was called reverse pyramids. I progress the max weight for the 1st set wen I can get 12+ reps. I think you can use this method for 1-3, 6-8, or 8-12 reps.[/quote]

I’ve always trained that way too, for one reason- if I do it the opposite way ( ramp up doing for example 275 x 10 and 300 x 10) then the heavy set I will never be able to match the performance than if I just go for it with a light warm up. I’ve always used that heavy set as a measurement of my progression and strength. Anything that would make my performance suffer would really play mind games with me.[/quote]

I think the method is working better for you than me, your clip is impressive, your user name should be “GUNS”.

86

MODOK -

I don’t see your bench vid for some reason. Do you have a youtube channel?

Not that I need more details on how to ramp, I would just like to see you train lol

-Adam

87

[quote]bwhitwell wrote:

I think the method is working better for you than me, your clip is impressive, your user name should be “GUNS”.[/quote]

Seriously lol those arms are ridiculous.

Thanks MODOK for the explanation of your training and the video, it was interesting.

88

Sometimes with all this talk about warming up, as if it were as difficult as a Phd in physics, I wonder how some people obtain a degree or hold down a job.

89

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
Sometimes with all this talk about warming up, as if it were as difficult as a Phd in physics, I wonder how some people obtain a degree or hold down a job. [/quote]

Me too, but I am arriving at the conclusion that most of these guys are not out of school yet…and that many are just as clueless or efficient at complicating issues further in their classes in school. I seriously doubt that THIS is the only place where people like that run into trouble.

Weight lifting is something you learn by doing. You can always tell the people who just “talk” about it.

90

okay thanks for the responses modok and bricknyce we pretty much do the same thing…I do it just a little different. You gotta realize without anyone ever helping me (trained in my basement always) and not ever reading about “ramping” I lifted this way just cause it felt like the right thing to do.

This is because I went in with the mindset that I wanted to improve my numbers on the bar ALL the time no matter what.

Before I read any of this ramping shit I would do things like

Squat warm-up to a top set of 8 on squats.
135x6
185x3
225x5
275x3
325x3
365x1
405x2
430x8* top set.

RDL’s 3x8

  1. 235x8
  2. 275x8
  3. 325x8* done.

anyways…thats how I set up training on all days. I always work up to something really heavy on my main movement that I’m really trying to improve. And then all the assistance stuff is eitehr 4x6, 3x8, etc etc. and then I work up to an all out set of whatever rep range throughout the sets so on that last set it’s pretty damn tough, and I won’t increase the weight until I hit the target rep. Or I will increase load and go down in reps the next week (from 10 to 8, or 8 to 6)

THE END.
I’m done reading about this word ramping.

91

[quote]rasturai wrote:
okay thanks for the responses modok and bricknyce we pretty much do the same thing…I do it just a little different. You gotta realize without anyone ever helping me (trained in my basement always) and not ever reading about “ramping” I lifted this way just cause it felt like the right thing to do.

This is because I went in with the mindset that I wanted to improve my numbers on the bar ALL the time no matter what.

Before I read any of this ramping shit I would do things like

Squat warm-up to a top set of 8 on squats.
135x6
185x3
225x5
275x3
325x3
365x1
405x2
430x8* top set.

RDL’s 3x8

  1. 235x8
  2. 275x8
  3. 325x8* done.

anyways…thats how I set up training on all days. I always work up to something really heavy on my main movement that I’m really trying to improve. And then all the assistance stuff is eitehr 4x6, 3x8, etc etc. and then I work up to an all out set of whatever rep range throughout the sets so on that last set it’s pretty damn tough, and I won’t increase the weight until I hit the target rep. Or I will increase load and go down in reps the next week (from 10 to 8, or 8 to 6)

THE END.
I’m done reading about this word ramping.
[/quote]

I see you still don’t get what I’m saying judging by the setup of that first exercise.

92

Rasturai wrote: “This is because I went in with the mindset that I wanted to improve my numbers on the bar ALL the time no matter what.”

Who can do this indefinitely? NO ONE. Which is why it’s a recipe for disaster and there’s a need to backoff here and there, even while still training.

93

[quote]rasturai wrote:
okay thanks for the responses modok and bricknyce we pretty much do the same thing…I do it just a little different. You gotta realize without anyone ever helping me (trained in my basement always) and not ever reading about “ramping” I lifted this way just cause it felt like the right thing to do.

This is because I went in with the mindset that I wanted to improve my numbers on the bar ALL the time no matter what.

Before I read any of this ramping shit I would do things like

Squat warm-up to a top set of 8 on squats.
135x6
185x3
225x5
275x3
325x3
365x1
405x2
430x8* top set.

RDL’s 3x8

  1. 235x8
  2. 275x8
  3. 325x8* done.

anyways…thats how I set up training on all days. I always work up to something really heavy on my main movement that I’m really trying to improve. And then all the assistance stuff is eitehr 4x6, 3x8, etc etc. and then I work up to an all out set of whatever rep range throughout the sets so on that last set it’s pretty damn tough, and I won’t increase the weight until I hit the target rep. Or I will increase load and go down in reps the next week (from 10 to 8, or 8 to 6)

THE END.
I’m done reading about this word ramping.
[/quote]

With my way of doing it–which is NOT the way YOU must do it–the last 3 to 4 sets of squats would all be done for 8 to 10 reps, making it a 3-4 x 8-10 rep scheme, like every other goddamn bodybuilder does or any other athlete does for assistance work.

94

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
Sometimes with all this talk about warming up, as if it were as difficult as a Phd in physics, I wonder how some people obtain a degree or hold down a job. [/quote]

Me too, but I am arriving at the conclusion that most of these guys are not out of school yet…and that many are just as clueless or efficient at complicating issues further in their classes in school. I seriously doubt that THIS is the only place where people like that run into trouble.

Weight lifting is something you learn by doing. You can always tell the people who just “talk” about it.[/quote]

Dude, if it took this much instruction, hand holding, and repeating and repeating and RE-FUCKING-PEATING for employees, I believe we’d be in a deeper economic mess than we have now - much, MUCH deeper! If was a boss, I’d not only start firing people with such neediness, I’d be inclined (but wouldn’t do so) to start punching people in the face.

95

Thanks for all the time and patience Bricknyce.

I’ve personally tried keeping the reps the same for the last couple of sets but I’ve found that its hard to progress (adding weight or reps) this way.

I actually prefer to start with high reps and lower the weights with each weight increase. These heavier low rep sets are just to help me get a feel for the weight before reaching that one all out top set.

I feel that progress should be the ultimate indicator, whether it be adding more weight or reps. Does volume really matter? I understand that you will not progress linearly but, provided that you keep working hard and get adequate food and rest.

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:

[quote]rasturai wrote:
okay thanks for the responses modok and bricknyce we pretty much do the same thing…I do it just a little different. You gotta realize without anyone ever helping me (trained in my basement always) and not ever reading about “ramping” I lifted this way just cause it felt like the right thing to do.

This is because I went in with the mindset that I wanted to improve my numbers on the bar ALL the time no matter what.

Before I read any of this ramping shit I would do things like

Squat warm-up to a top set of 8 on squats.
135x6
185x3
225x5
275x3
325x3
365x1
405x2
430x8* top set.

RDL’s 3x8

  1. 235x8
  2. 275x8
  3. 325x8* done.

anyways…thats how I set up training on all days. I always work up to something really heavy on my main movement that I’m really trying to improve. And then all the assistance stuff is eitehr 4x6, 3x8, etc etc. and then I work up to an all out set of whatever rep range throughout the sets so on that last set it’s pretty damn tough, and I won’t increase the weight until I hit the target rep. Or I will increase load and go down in reps the next week (from 10 to 8, or 8 to 6)

THE END.
I’m done reading about this word ramping.
[/quote]

With my way of doing it–which is NOT the way YOU must do it–the last 3 to 4 sets of squats would all be done for 8 to 10 reps, making it a 3-4 x 8-10 rep scheme, like every other goddamn bodybuilder does or any other athlete does for assistance work. [/quote]

96

[quote]Mr.Martian wrote:
Thanks for all the time and patience Bricknyce.

I’ve personally tried keeping the reps the same for the last couple of sets but I’ve found that its hard to progress (adding weight or reps) this way.

I actually prefer to start with high reps and lower the weights with each weight increase. These heavier low rep sets are just to help me get a feel for the weight before reaching that one all out top set.

I feel that progress should be the ultimate indicator, whether it be adding more weight or reps. Does volume really matter? I understand that you will not progress linearly but, provided that you keep working hard and get adequate food and rest.

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:

[quote]rasturai wrote:
okay thanks for the responses modok and bricknyce we pretty much do the same thing…I do it just a little different. You gotta realize without anyone ever helping me (trained in my basement always) and not ever reading about “ramping” I lifted this way just cause it felt like the right thing to do.

This is because I went in with the mindset that I wanted to improve my numbers on the bar ALL the time no matter what.

Before I read any of this ramping shit I would do things like

Squat warm-up to a top set of 8 on squats.
135x6
185x3
225x5
275x3
325x3
365x1
405x2
430x8* top set.

RDL’s 3x8

  1. 235x8
  2. 275x8
  3. 325x8* done.

anyways…thats how I set up training on all days. I always work up to something really heavy on my main movement that I’m really trying to improve. And then all the assistance stuff is eitehr 4x6, 3x8, etc etc. and then I work up to an all out set of whatever rep range throughout the sets so on that last set it’s pretty damn tough, and I won’t increase the weight until I hit the target rep. Or I will increase load and go down in reps the next week (from 10 to 8, or 8 to 6)

THE END.
I’m done reading about this word ramping.
[/quote]

With my way of doing it–which is NOT the way YOU must do it–the last 3 to 4 sets of squats would all be done for 8 to 10 reps, making it a 3-4 x 8-10 rep scheme, like every other goddamn bodybuilder does or any other athlete does for assistance work. [/quote]
[/quote]

I’m NOT an expert on muscle growth–and even the exercise physiology geeks aren’t experts in REAL WORLD muscle building either–but I believe there is some threshold of minimal volume that’s needed to a) perform an exercise at max limits or b) grow or c) any other training adaption.

If what I said weren’t the case, we’d all be doing just fine with a few easy warmup sets and ONE main set to failure per muscle group. (DC and HIT squads are welcome to chime in here.)

Just imagine working up to a 500 pound ONE rep max like this:
225 x 3
295 x 3
465 x 3
500 x 1

That’s NOT how any real strong person does it, and if 500 was their real 1 rep max, they might not even be able to hit it because the body hasn’t been primed properly.

If volume didn’t matter, we could get away with one set for speed work (a set of 2 or 3 at 40 to 60% of the max) and plyometrics and sprints and intervals.

Same goes for bodybuilding and size.

That’s MY take on it. If I’m wrong, so be it. I don’t think I’m wrong because no one does ONLY 1 demanding set of anything.

97

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
I’m NOT an expert on muscle growth–and even the exercise physiology geeks aren’t experts in REAL WORLD muscle building either–but I believe there is some threshold of minimal volume that’s needed to a) perform an exercise at max limits or b) grow or c) any other training adaption.

If what I said weren’t the case, we’d all be doing just fine with a few easy warmup sets and ONE main set to failure per muscle group. (DC and HIT squads are welcome to chime in here.)[/quote]

I’m no too knowledgeable about HIT, but I know when it comes to DC, there’s technically only one all-out set, but it’s a set that’s Rest/paused, so I’m not even totally sure you can call it that.

I know for the last year or so I’ve mostly been doing a Yates-inspired 3-way. For quite some time I’d work up to one maximal set of (usually something like) 6-10, and just continue to adjust the weight.

I found this was a successful formula for some of my muscles, and not so much for others. For instance, my chest fatigues quickly. On my main exercise I still only do one maximal set of 6-10. I’ll then move to my second exercise, use less warm-ups, but use things like rest/pause or just multiple ‘work’ sets (in the fashion that MODOK does them.) But then for things like my legs, one maximal set is utterly pointless. I’ve recently been going much higher-volume with my ramping sets and they’ve responded quite well.

I’m not trying to say I’m a know-all, but I think that using the general frame of philosophy of ramping up is generally going to yield good results… that is, as long as you cater it to your specific needs. Case-in-point: The difference’s between [your] and MODOK’s styles.

[quote]
Just imagine working up to a 500 pound ONE rep max like this:
225 x 3
295 x 3
465 x 3
500 x 1

That’s NOT how any real strong person does it, and if 500 was their real 1 rep max, they might not even be able to hit it because the body hasn’t been primed properly.

If volume didn’t matter, we could get away with one set for speed work (a set of 2 or 3 at 40 to 60% of the max) and plyometrics and sprints and intervals.

Same goes for bodybuilding and size.

That’s MY take on it. If I’m wrong, so be it. I don’t think I’m wrong because no one does ONLY 1 demanding set of anything. [/quote]

98

Bricknyce,

I’m not accusing you of being wrong at all. In fact, I respect that you found a way of ramping that has given you success.

If professor X sees this, I’d really like to hear his thoughts on this. It seems that a lot of the confusion stems from, where to start your work ramping steps, and how you go about progressing from there. With one all out set, its a little more concrete as to where to add reps/weight.

I need to tell you though, that I’ve been spinning my wheels for quite sometime with straight sets and only recently, started to progress with the advice of Professor X and CC. I still have a lot to learn. When I’m not experimenting in the gym, I’m here reading. I’m not trying to play dumb or attempt to make things too complicated (at least intentionally). I appreciate everyone’s thoughts and inputs.

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:

[quote]Mr.Martian wrote:
Thanks for all the time and patience Bricknyce.

I’ve personally tried keeping the reps the same for the last couple of sets but I’ve found that its hard to progress (adding weight or reps) this way.

I actually prefer to start with high reps and lower the weights with each weight increase. These heavier low rep sets are just to help me get a feel for the weight before reaching that one all out top set.

I feel that progress should be the ultimate indicator, whether it be adding more weight or reps. Does volume really matter? I understand that you will not progress linearly but, provided that you keep working hard and get adequate food and rest.

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:

[quote]rasturai wrote:
okay thanks for the responses modok and bricknyce we pretty much do the same thing…I do it just a little different. You gotta realize without anyone ever helping me (trained in my basement always) and not ever reading about “ramping” I lifted this way just cause it felt like the right thing to do.

This is because I went in with the mindset that I wanted to improve my numbers on the bar ALL the time no matter what.

Before I read any of this ramping shit I would do things like

Squat warm-up to a top set of 8 on squats.
135x6
185x3
225x5
275x3
325x3
365x1
405x2
430x8* top set.

RDL’s 3x8

  1. 235x8
  2. 275x8
  3. 325x8* done.

anyways…thats how I set up training on all days. I always work up to something really heavy on my main movement that I’m really trying to improve. And then all the assistance stuff is eitehr 4x6, 3x8, etc etc. and then I work up to an all out set of whatever rep range throughout the sets so on that last set it’s pretty damn tough, and I won’t increase the weight until I hit the target rep. Or I will increase load and go down in reps the next week (from 10 to 8, or 8 to 6)

THE END.
I’m done reading about this word ramping.
[/quote]

With my way of doing it–which is NOT the way YOU must do it–the last 3 to 4 sets of squats would all be done for 8 to 10 reps, making it a 3-4 x 8-10 rep scheme, like every other goddamn bodybuilder does or any other athlete does for assistance work. [/quote]
[/quote]

I’m NOT an expert on muscle growth–and even the exercise physiology geeks aren’t experts in REAL WORLD muscle building either–but I believe there is some threshold of minimal volume that’s needed to a) perform an exercise at max limits or b) grow or c) any other training adaption.

If what I said weren’t the case, we’d all be doing just fine with a few easy warmup sets and ONE main set to failure per muscle group. (DC and HIT squads are welcome to chime in here.)

Just imagine working up to a 500 pound ONE rep max like this:
225 x 3
295 x 3
465 x 3
500 x 1

That’s NOT how any real strong person does it, and if 500 was their real 1 rep max, they might not even be able to hit it because the body hasn’t been primed properly.

If volume didn’t matter, we could get away with one set for speed work (a set of 2 or 3 at 40 to 60% of the max) and plyometrics and sprints and intervals.

Same goes for bodybuilding and size.

That’s MY take on it. If I’m wrong, so be it. I don’t think I’m wrong because no one does ONLY 1 demanding set of anything. [/quote]

99

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
I’d be inclined (but wouldn’t do so) to start punching people in the face. [/quote]

Don’t hire interns

100

I’ll probably get bashed for this but I thought I’d throw it out there. I’m a complete newb but I’d like to just point out the fact that I started making actual progress the second I quit looking for a “Perfect Program” and started focusing on busting ass in the gym. This came about by reading PX’s posts a while ago, really got the message “Just f*cking do it”

My method is simple: bring the log book, try to beat my previous lift on a given exercise by using more weight, or beating the number of reps with the same weight. This, combined with lots of food, has been giving me PRs pretty much everytime I step in the gym. Granted I’m a beginner and experiencing newb gains, I bust ass and stick with the basics. I’ve been getting compliments everytime I see someone that hasn’t seen me in a while, saying I look like I’m “buffing up”, must be doing something right.

-Adam