Climate Change and Meat Eating

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
102

[quote]GVkid wrote:
Oh hey… looks like I answered my own quote question…

[quote]
Food is manufactured because it’s the only way large food companies can deliver a “safe” product from as few locations as possible. With this food model, people literally have to eat crap. I hope your starting to see why it’s impossible for everyone to make the choices you do, It just can’t work with our current model in my opinion. [/quote]

I disagree, I think food is manufactured to maximize profits. If large companies truly cared about a “safe” product, why put chemicals or sub-par ingredients in their manufactured products? Why use all of the HFCS instead of sugar or xylitol/splenda/xyz sweetener? Yes people literally eat crap, but might it be because of a lack of self control on their behalf instead of some mysterious obstacle that stops “2/3 of all americans” from making healthy dietary decisions?

Correct me if I’m way off base here, but from what I’m seeing, no one here is saying that the current large food companies/ranches are making the healthiest product, but simply that the act of reforming the food industry is not practical or realistic? So not that it shouldn’t be reformed, but there is no good, practical way that results in a “win” from every angle.[/quote]

We agree I think, the quotes indicated sarcasm. The economic reasons for big food companies are obvious, you’re right. But the only way to actually deliver products to the people and make them “safe” or fresh is for food companies to add stuff like antibiotics, preservatives, artificial flavorings, etc.

Your second paragraph also seems to be right. I’ve posted articles that show grain fed beef is 6 times higher in bad fats, contains practically no antioxidants, and has additional health risks associated with antibiotics/hormones. Although push has tried to mitigate the health risks, he’s not denied this. The argument is wether the economics support this. I think they can. Apparently this makes me a retard.

103

[quote]pushharder wrote:
crap

noun
1.
Vulgar.
a.
excrement.
b.
an act of defecation.
2.
Slang: Sometimes Vulgar.
a.
nonsense; drivel.
b.
falsehood, exaggeration, propaganda, or the like.
3.
refuse; rubbish; junk; litter: Will you clean up that crap!
[/quote]

Yes, number 3 and 1a are perfect. I guess you would be in the 84%?

Washington, D.C.-A new study shows that 84 percent of adults have no idea that the primary source of salmonella, campylobacter, E. coli, and other foodborne pathogens on poultry and meat is animal feces.

The survey of 1,000 men and women was completed during the period of July 26-29, 2001, by Opinion Research Corporation International on behalf of the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine (PCRM). Foodborne illnesses are at epidemic levels in the United States; the Centers for Disease Control estimate there are at least 76 million cases each year, usually from consumption of animal products.

â??Our findings show the vast majority of Americans do not understand there are feces on meat and poultry,â?? says PCRM staff attorney Mindy Kursban. â??In fact, thereâ??s a major disconnect in the public consciousness between the foodborne illnesses that sicken so many of us and their originating cause: animal excrement.â??

104

Push- you’ve mentioned quite a bit about economics being the determining factor of this argument, and I do agree with you. Here are some economic factors you have not mentioned.

Large farming increases the cost of fuel costs in this country enormously. It takes 100 calories of energy to deliver 1 calorie of food with our current food system. We could expect to see a big decrease in the costs of fuel by supporting a more localized system that requires less shipping. This would also mean more money for farms.

Another point is the effects of big farms/ food manufacturers on healthcare costs. Food poisoning is at epidemic levels as the article I just posted shows. Every food poisoning case is registered at the doctors office. Diabetes, heart disease, common colds and other maladies are all affected by the food we create under a mega farm industry. If we can encourage the existence of small farms we might see a decrease in the biggest cost in America.

In the long run, more local farms may end up being cheaper for America. As i said the only thing we really can do is stop supporting the large farms, start supporting smaller ones, and hope that consumers make the healthier choices when given the chance.

107

The boy is just a weenie tard. Kind of like this woman I know who went vegan. She told me they have their own science, not that university stuff. I kid you not.

This is why I don’t “debate” on the net. Calling someone a dumbass is just so much quicker. you fellas with better typing skills can spend time with more detailed responses.

108

[quote]Schlenkatank wrote:

[quote]tom63 wrote:
This guy is just to foolish to argue with. People can be lazy and they just love to blame someone else for it. I’ve never gained more than ten pounds in my life that I didn’t want or plan for. Just stop eating crap.

Here’s a cool diet for you : breakfast : protein shake with added fiber. Eat a banana or orange or something else you like.

lunch : turkey sandwich on flax and grains, side salad, eat some fruit and drinking a friggin diet coke.

dinner: steak , potatoes and beer, three of them. Eat some nuts between emals, drink some coffee. Hit the weights, do a little cardio.

And get out of college and get a clue.

God, I’m glad I was never this stupid growing up.[/quote]

No man, I’m not stupid. Maybe I’m a little crazy to still be talking to you, but I’m not stupid.

If everyone ate like this, we’d all be much healthier. What makes you think I’m encouraging something different than this diet? This is the type of diet we need to encourage, at least as a starting point for many americans. One way we can do this is to educate, another way is to make healthier farms that produce unprocessed food to more Americans.

For someone who supports the big food biz you don’t eat like it. Most of the food you described is fairly raw, healthy, and hasn’t gone through much processing (ie. turkey, nuts, whole wheat bread). About 70% or more of the food you’ll find in the super market is not like the food you described.

Why? Because we have food manufacturers in this country, not food growers. That’s why they feed cows grain, why they make wonder bread instead of flax and grains, and why it’s impossible to find a cow that’s been fed what it supposed to be fed in the supermarket.

Food is manufactured because it’s the only way large food companies can deliver a “safe” product from as few locations as possible. With this food model, people literally have to eat crap. I hope your starting to see why it’s impossible for everyone to make the choices you do, It just can’t work with our current model in my opinion.

Maybe you think everything I just said is stupid, and thats fine. it sounds like you eat pretty healthy and responsibly. We disagree, it’s that simple. [/quote]

Just because I eat well most of the time doesn’t mean I don’t ever touch a dorito, jello pudding, or snickers bar. Just not all the time. People can vote with their wallets.

And most people can make intelligent food choices. they’re just to lazy and stupid. It’s not the fault of business, it’s their fault. But personal responsibility is lost on a liberal.

109

i love animals
they’re delicious

110

people wouldn’t kill animals if they didn’t taste so damn good!

112

[quote]Mick28 wrote:

I like meat [/quote]

Oh, we know. Your love for meat is well documented here.

113

[quote]tom63 wrote:
The boy is just a weenie tard. Kind of like this woman I know who went vegan. She told me they have their own science, not that university stuff. I kid you not.

This is why I don’t “debate” on the net. Calling someone a dumbass is just so much quicker. you fellas with better typing skills can spend time with more detailed responses.[/quote]
You present no factual information and you actually think your winning this argument? Wow, perhaps you’re not familiar with debate? I’ll remind both you and push that I’m the only one who’s posted factual information to support my argument.

Both you and push have maturity well behind your years (at least sometimes). It’s great you think I’m a “weenie tard” but I already told you I don’t really care as long as you act like an uneducated dick. You’re right though, debating must be very bothersome when all you want is to do is call someone a dumbass for disagreeing with you… You’re acting ridiculous, I know damn well that my argument is perfectly reasonable.

114

[quote]tom63 wrote:

[quote]Schlenkatank wrote:

[quote]tom63 wrote:
.[/quote]

[/quote]

Just because I eat well most of the time doesn’t mean I don’t ever touch a dorito, jello pudding, or snickers bar. Just not all the time. People can vote with their wallets.

And most people can make intelligent food choices. they’re just to lazy and stupid. It’s not the fault of business, it’s their fault. But personal responsibility is lost on a liberal.
[/quote]
My argument is actually centered around the concept of encouraging consumer choice. Why is this part of a liberal agenda? If people want to choose grain fed beef at 4$ a pound when it’s sitting next to grass fed beef at $8 a pound… fine. Unfortunately most grocery stores don’t carry enough raw products for consumers to make that choice. I have never suggested that we force grass fed beef or other healthy food products on anyone, you did.

115

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Schlenkatank wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:
crap

noun
1.
Vulgar.
a.
excrement.
b.
an act of defecation.
2.
Slang: Sometimes Vulgar.
a.
nonsense; drivel.
b.
falsehood, exaggeration, propaganda, or the like.
3.
refuse; rubbish; junk; litter: Will you clean up that crap!
[/quote]

Yes, number 3 and 1a are perfect. [/quote]

So you think Americans are “literally” eating vulgar falsehoods, huh? BTW, what were your college entrance requirements? A letter from your mom stating you always completed your homework in junior high school?

C’mon, SchlenkerBuns, wise up.

[quote]

I guess you would be in the 84%?

Washington, D.C.-A new study shows that 84 percent of adults have no idea that the primary source of salmonella, campylobacter, E. coli, and other foodborne pathogens on poultry and meat is animal feces.

The survey of 1,000 men and women was completed during the period of July 26-29, 2001, by Opinion Research Corporation International on behalf of the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine (PCRM). Foodborne illnesses are at epidemic levels in the United States; the Centers for Disease Control estimate there are at least 76 million cases each year, usually from consumption of animal products.

�??�?�¢??Our findings show the vast majority of Americans do not understand there are feces on meat and poultry,�??�?�¢?? says PCRM staff attorney Mindy Kursban. �??�?�¢??In fact, there�??�?�¢??s a major disconnect in the public consciousness between the foodborne illnesses that sicken so many of us and their originating cause: animal excrement.�??�?�¢??[/quote]

I see you conveniently failed to cite your source. Don’t worry, I and Uncle Google, will list it here: http://www.pcrm.org/magazine/gm05spring/kursban_profile.html

[i]"STAFF PROFILE Mindy Kursban: PCRM’s First Executive Director (Attorney at Law)

‘Refusing to dissect frogs in seventh grade takes a lot of guts not to mention compassion. And in Mindy Kursbana’s case it was a sign of things to come. An avid reader in high school, she began moving toward a vegetarian diet after reading The Jungle, Upton Sinclair’s pivotal book about the Chicago meatpacking industry. Years later, the Maryland native has brought her concern for animals and her interest in health into her work at PCRM.’"[/i]

I see you use a vegan/animal rights website: http://support.pcrm.org/site/PageServer?pagename=21day_vegan_kickstartt

http://www.consumerfreedom.net/downloads/reference/docs/200810_CCF_7Things_PCRM.pdf

TankerDisingenuousOne, I am ashamed of you. I warned others you had an agenda and it doesn’t involve the Truth. Now you head off to some other website where no one is sharp enough to expose your fairy tales.

Shoo. (That means Get The Fuck Out)[/quote]

Push, I know you a little too well for that bullshit. You usually say shoo or go away when you feel disadvantaged, its a scare tactic and I won’t fall for it.

And don’t play dumb with me, i meant that it is “actually” “feces”. Perhaps you misplaced your reading glasses and couldn’t line up the numbers with the definitions.

And yes, i did find it on that website. However if you read a little more you would see that this was A STUDY completed at the request of the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine. You know, experts. Really Push… I don’t endorse that particular website, but I do know that that study accurately reflected why you didn’t know feces were so prevalent in food.

And I don’t believe you have addressed any of my economic points either. Those actually come from my dad who majored in economics and engineering at Dartmouth. He absolutely feels that the economics can support the sort of changes I’m talking abut. Perhaps you feel a little flustered?

Lastly, I’m not a vegan, or a vegetarian, nor do I have an agenda. I just believe that Americans would be smart enough to make the healthiest food choices if they were available too them. Pretty reasonable huh?

118

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Schlenkatank shoulda wrote:

I’m embarrassed to show back up here, Push. Please forgive me for advancing the tripe of an animals rights activist organization that receives mucho money from PETA and other Neptunians, especially after I assured you earlier I wasn’t using those type sources for my “research.”

I am willing to pick myself up off the ground, dust myself off, turn over a new leaf and move on with my life in another direction.

I understand what semblance of credibility I had with you is now shattered and I am no longer worthy to partake of your time on this issue. Again, I humbly seek your forgiveness.

PS I have a hawt older sister who wants you bad and I plan to hook you up with her in a deferential attempt to mitigate the damage I’ve done here.

I’ve attached a pic of her in order to gain your interest in this proposal. She likes both grain and grass fed beef and is a cheap date that will absolutely put out for a guy like you.
[/quote]
[/quote]

This should have replaced my last post.

Push, I say this sincerely. I’m sorry for being an arrogant youngster who in your eye looks like a mislead young idealist without an inkling of the real world. I’m sorry for belittling your opinion, had i known you had worked in the meat industry Initially I would have been asking you a lot of questions instead. I’m sorry for being too immature to say this earlier, because this conversation would have gone a different way.

This went a certain way in part because i wrote a well thought out response that could certainly be argued for, and it was called a plethora of bull shit. I may not be an expert but I know most of what I’m saying is pretty well documented and relevant to my life.

The result of this is so ridiculous because i actually support a lot of what you say. The consumers have to create any sort of lasting change in the market. We only disagree in that I think we need to give people more opportunities on the market to make healthier choices. This is fine with me. For the record I think PETA is ridiculous. Vegans and vegetarians are fine, but they shouldn’t push their beliefs on others, especially in government.

Again i’m sorry for being rude and I hope we can talk again later without talking about anyones sister.

Sky

119

[quote]pushharder wrote:
Thanks, SchlenkerMagnanimousBullshitTanker, I appreciate that. Please make sure sis knows that I will pay 1/4 of her airfare to Montana. I expect you to pay the rest. And make sure she shows up with a gift certificate from Black Angus Restaurants so I can hold you to that “cheap date” promise.[/quote]

Push, isn’t that still roughly $500 on your part for your neck of the woods? I mean for NW MT that’s gotta be Kalispell at the closest which I estimate roughly an hour give or take from you so you still need to worry about car rental unless you rely on the good Samaritan in the area (or pick her up yourself - let’s face it, taxies are scarce in that neck of the woods).

I’m jk about the $500 quarter payment, but I do know there are very few flights that go directly to MT. Maybe a train would be better? No pun intended.