Climate Change and Meat Eating

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
81

[quote]Schlenkatank wrote:

Look man, doing this shit isn’t pleasant, It doesn’t take a man to make e-insults. i’ll be clear with you, I’m a freshman in college who has written around 3 extensive research papers on the effect of the farming industry on health and the environment. My sister works for the Smithsonian Institute on this topic and has personally worked as a manual laborer on a large local farm. She talks to a lot of farmers about the industry and where it’s ultimately headed. I know a lot of what she knows, so I’m probably more educated on this topic than you, but certainly not an expert. Ok?

You think I’m idealistic? My idea for improving the farming industry in this country is for the government to stop subsidizing large farms and for people to slightly reduce their consumption of meat. That would have a tremendous effect. My guess is that if I told a local farmer I wanted to do those things I’d be his best friend.

Your right about one thing though, we’ve talked on this subject before. I believe you said that the thought of the meat industry affecting health and the environment was utter bullshit. I’m here to inform you that you’re kidding yourself. [/quote]

I’m saying you need to find out how a mousetrap works, firsthand, before you start thinking about building a better one. Secondhand isn’t going to do it. You want a valid opinion that people will respect? You are going to have to earn it. You do that in the real world by working in the field and accomplishing something. Thus far, you haven’t. Hence Idealistic and Ignorant. It’s not necessarily an insult as is an accurate assessment of the state you are currently in.

Seriously, man. A person cannot go into any discipline green and think they are the top of the industry straight out of college, or in your case, still in sophomore year.

And as far as what you think you are here for, you are going to need a hell of a lot more of a realistic perspective on life before you tell anybody anything. If you weren’t such a naive, immature and self centered prick, you would realize that the razzing I’m giving you is pretty damned soft compared to real world standards.

You just haven’t done the work, man. Until you have, you are just another guy taking potshots and theorizing about something you have never had anything directly to do with.

82

[/quote]

However, our government has a responsibility to protect its citizens from environmental damage, and to ensure that businesses are conducted ethically. Our government shouldn’t support mega farms for these reasons and should also lay down some basic rules about what the hell you can do to these animals.
[/quote]

Where does it say that the govt has a responsibility to protect its citizens from environmental damage or “global warming”? How much power do we give the government for our safety? Wouldn’t it be better if we were more aware of the impending issues of doom and work to solve the problem ourselves instead of granting the government unlimited power to “solve all of our problems” for us? How much free will/choice do we give up? (I know I’m being idealistic here).

If the government didn’t support the mega farms 1) there wouldn’t be enough money in farming for anyone to want to do it (until it was too late and there was a food shortage) 2) the government would lose a measure of control over what the farmers could plant/raise and 3)would you really want someone from a polar opposite field/industry telling you how to run your farm? Let’s face it. The govt is not going to get a career farmer off the land, and place them as a farmer czar. It’ll be some senator from xyz (probably from big banking) and they’ll be in charge of drawing up whatever regulations farmers can follow.

83

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]Schlenkatank wrote:

Look man, doing this shit isn’t pleasant, It doesn’t take a man to make e-insults. i’ll be clear with you, I’m a freshman in college who has written around 3 extensive research papers on the effect of the farming industry on health and the environment. My sister works for the Smithsonian Institute on this topic and has personally worked as a manual laborer on a large local farm. She talks to a lot of farmers about the industry and where it’s ultimately headed. I know a lot of what she knows, so I’m probably more educated on this topic than you, but certainly not an expert. Ok?

You think I’m idealistic? My idea for improving the farming industry in this country is for the government to stop subsidizing large farms and for people to slightly reduce their consumption of meat. That would have a tremendous effect. My guess is that if I told a local farmer I wanted to do those things I’d be his best friend.

Your right about one thing though, we’ve talked on this subject before. I believe you said that the thought of the meat industry affecting health and the environment was utter bullshit. I’m here to inform you that you’re kidding yourself. [/quote]

I’m saying you need to find out how a mousetrap works, firsthand, before you start thinking about building a better one. Secondhand isn’t going to do it. You want a valid opinion that people will respect? You are going to have to earn it. You do that in the real world by working in the field and accomplishing something. Thus far, you haven’t. Hence Idealistic and Ignorant. It’s not necessarily an insult as is an accurate assessment of the state you are currently in.

Seriously, man. A person cannot go into any discipline green and think they are the top of the industry straight out of college, or in your case, still in sophomore year.

[/quote]

You make some personal, although good points. I don’t work as a farmer, I work as a carpenter in the summer. Hopefully, I’l be able to do both this year.

I’ve already been very explicit with you though. I’m not an expert.

The arguments I’m making are factual and well supported. Perhaps you disagree with me on how to solve this problem, which is where an experts opinion might be useful, but it’s sheer ignorance to overlook the negative effects of the food/farming industry. The proof is all around us, America is the least healthy developed nation in the world.

84

Facts are what are right, not opinions which some people support. And we’re not in great shape from eating to much and not exercising, not merely because we eat beef.

It’s not the food / farming industry, it’s us and our habits.

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You guys really need to learn how the quote tags function.

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[quote]Makavali wrote:
You guys really need to learn how the quote tags function.[/quote]

Ha!

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[quote]Makavali wrote:
You guys really need to learn how the quote tags function.[/quote]

Teach me oh great one!

90

[quote]pushharder wrote:

I do agree the federal government should get out of the ag subsidy business.[/quote]

That’s basically the essence of my argument. That and to educate people about the reality of the meat and food biz. I already told you that I don’t want to force people to choose one product over another, but I do think there are lot of reasons for our government to stop supporting giant farms and start supporting smaller ones. What I eventually talked about in my essay I posted was that Americas health problems have begun in part because of the disappearance of the traditional farmer. We need more of those guys around.

As far as my arguments being unsupported, thats just not true. No one has disproved ANY of my points so far! I’ll refer you to the “Omnivores Dillema”, “Fast food nation”, “in defense of food”, and the japan study named “The relationship between the consumption of meat, fat, coffee and the risk of colon cancer.”

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[/quote]GVkid wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:
You guys really need to learn how the quote tags function.[/quote]

Teach me oh great one![/quote]

Here is an example of how not to.

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[quote]Schlenkatank wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

I do agree the federal government should get out of the ag subsidy business.[/quote]

That’s basically the essence of my argument. That and to educate people about the reality of the meat and food biz. I already told you that I don’t want to force people to choose one product over another, but I do think there are lot of reasons for our government to stop supporting giant farms and start supporting smaller ones. What I eventually talked about in my essay I posted was that Americas health problems have begun in part because of the disappearance of the traditional farmer. We need more of those guys around.

As far as my arguments being unsupported, thats just not true. No one has disproved ANY of my points so far! I’ll refer you to the “Omnivores Dillema”, “Fast food nation”, “in defense of food”, and the japan study named “The relationship between the consumption of meat, fat, coffee and the risk of colon cancer.” [/quote]

You’re using pop culture to defend your argument. I’m doing just fine health wise and not obese because I don’t eat crap and I exercise. It’s not the food industry, it’s not big farms. It’s individuals who make choices about their health.

you don’t need to eat at Mc Donalds. You don’t need to eat processed food. You can shop at autions and farmer’s markets, or even Whole Foods.

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[quote]tom63 wrote:

[quote]Schlenkatank wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[/quote]

You’re using pop culture to defend your argument. I’m doing just fine health wise and not obese because I don’t eat crap and I exercise. It’s not the food industry, it’s not big farms. It’s individuals who make choices about their health.

you don’t need to eat at Mc Donalds. You don’t need to eat processed food. You can shop at autions and farmer’s markets, or even Whole Foods.[/quote]

Great for you, but last time I checked my view is hardly pop culture. Two thirds of America is Overweight or obese, deaths from diabetes are at an all time high, and America leads the way in all morbidity statistics of developed nations. The fact of the matter is there are tons of people in this country who simply can’t make the choices you’re talking about. The main reason? Too many resources are being poured into a dirty food industry that makes bad food cheaply. Currently it is quite impossible for everyone, even people with plenty of money to choose food products that are healthy. That’s why we have ended up with a nation full of fat and sick people.

As far as exercise goes, America also leads the way in fitness. That part of your argument doesn’t go very far. I think pretty much every expert/contributor on this sight would agree with me that the biggest impact on your body composition and health is how much of what kind of food you eat. Exercise is very important, but it’s secondary to food.

You are what you eat, it’s that simple. Our health as a nation reflects the food we eat quite clearly. We need to make small farms a part of more communities to increase the amount of quality food and better the health of our very sick nation.

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This guy is just to foolish to argue with. People can be lazy and they just love to blame someone else for it. I’ve never gained more than ten pounds in my life that I didn’t want or plan for. Just stop eating crap.

Here’s a cool diet for you : breakfast : protein shake with added fiber. Eat a banana or orange or something else you like.

lunch : turkey sandwich on flax and grains, side salad, eat some fruit and drinking a friggin diet coke.

dinner: steak , potatoes and beer, three of them. Eat some nuts between emals, drink some coffee. Hit the weights, do a little cardio.

And get out of college and get a clue. God, I’m glad I was never this stupid growing up.

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[quote]tom63 wrote:
This guy is just to foolish to argue with. People can be lazy and they just love to blame someone else for it. I’ve never gained more than ten pounds in my life that I didn’t want or plan for. Just stop eating crap.

Here’s a cool diet for you : breakfast : protein shake with added fiber. Eat a banana or orange or something else you like.

lunch : turkey sandwich on flax and grains, side salad, eat some fruit and drinking a friggin diet coke.

dinner: steak , potatoes and beer, three of them. Eat some nuts between emals, drink some coffee. Hit the weights, do a little cardio.

And get out of college and get a clue.

God, I’m glad I was never this stupid growing up.[/quote]

No man, I’m not stupid. Maybe I’m a little crazy to still be talking to you, but I’m not stupid.

If everyone ate like this, we’d all be much healthier. What makes you think I’m encouraging something different than this diet? This is the type of diet we need to encourage, at least as a starting point for many americans. One way we can do this is to educate, another way is to make healthier farms that produce unprocessed food to more Americans.

For someone who supports the big food biz you don’t eat like it. Most of the food you described is fairly raw, healthy, and hasn’t gone through much processing (ie. turkey, nuts, whole wheat bread). About 70% or more of the food you’ll find in the super market is not like the food you described.

Why? Because we have food manufacturers in this country, not food growers. That’s why they feed cows grain, why they make wonder bread instead of flax and grains, and why it’s impossible to find a cow that’s been fed what it supposed to be fed in the supermarket.

Food is manufactured because it’s the only way large food companies can deliver a “safe” product from as few locations as possible. With this food model, people literally have to eat crap. I hope your starting to see why it’s impossible for everyone to make the choices you do, It just can’t work with our current model in my opinion.

Maybe you think everything I just said is stupid, and thats fine. it sounds like you eat pretty healthy and responsibly. We disagree, it’s that simple.

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Commercial Break for a Public Service Announcement:

[quote]Makavali wrote:
[/quote]GVkid wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:
You guys really need to learn how the quote tags function.[/quote]

Teach me oh great one![/quote]

Here is an example of how not to.[/quote]

Sweet! How about an example of how TO do? are [quote] and [/quote] the code words for starting and then ending the quotes? The possibilities seem endless!

I now return your scheduled discussion.

99

Oh hey… looks like I answered my own quote question…

[quote]
Food is manufactured because it’s the only way large food companies can deliver a “safe” product from as few locations as possible. With this food model, people literally have to eat crap. I hope your starting to see why it’s impossible for everyone to make the choices you do, It just can’t work with our current model in my opinion. [/quote]

I disagree, I think food is manufactured to maximize profits. If large companies truly cared about a “safe” product, why put chemicals or sub-par ingredients in their manufactured products? Why use all of the HFCS instead of sugar or xylitol/splenda/xyz sweetener? Yes people literally eat crap, but might it be because of a lack of self control on their behalf instead of some mysterious obstacle that stops “2/3 of all americans” from making healthy dietary decisions?

Correct me if I’m way off base here, but from what I’m seeing, no one here is saying that the current large food companies/ranches are making the healthiest product, but simply that the act of reforming the food industry is not practical or realistic? So not that it shouldn’t be reformed, but there is no good, practical way that results in a “win” from every angle.