[quote]croatinpa wrote:
Tonyc’s comments and questions about ‘actual amount’ is exactly what im talking about.
NO ONE can say this is how much Tonyc should eat or do, you have to know yourself and visually see where your diet it taking you.
(And im not saying Prof X is, nor am i saying he doesn’t know what he’s talking about, as he seems VERY knowledgeable)
What i am saying is its as simple as this, if your working your ass of in the gym and know you are and you are STILL gaining weight, then guess what; your bulking diet is probably working.
If that same diet is feasible in your life and work schedule, than great keep it up! If you aren’t, eat more, eventually you will find the right mix or you will give up.
HOWEVER when it comes time to cut and you end up loosing more muscle than you would like, then MAYBE you need to think about eating cleaner next time. [/quote]
If you just need to eat more if you aren’t gaining weight when bulking then why wouldn’t you just eat more if you’re losing weight too quickly while cutting?
Do you really think that your body will start jonesing for “dirty” foods when you clean up your diet to lose fat and lose muscle to punish you?
Understood Cueball, hence why i initially ‘tried’ to bring up the ‘finding your groove’ theory. My other posts where unfortunately a defense from flaming.
IQ totally agree but i think what happens at least WITH ME, is when i cut its sometimes hard to tell whether your cutting MUSCLE or cutting FAT. Which was my initial point.
I was in my last paragraph commenting on motile fat, versus fat that a person has had for years. If you eat clean, IMHO, the fat tends to be more motile, IMHO and one can reduce or increase it easier, not easily.
If one was to constantly use ‘dirty’ foods to bulk and went from say 152lbs - 226lbs by dirty bulking rather than clean bulking then, IMHO, it would far HARDER to cut body fat without loosing a ‘ton’ of muscle.
But transversely if one was to, IMHO, bulk ‘sorta’ cleanly then the cutting stage will be easier. And that is my point, and one i dont think was brought up in this thread?
I must admit I was a clean freak going into this thread, but I can say that once ive cut myself down and held it for a summer I will most likely be ‘dirtier’.
one argument that I see is that you waste a lot of time cutting the excess fat when you dirty bulk.
That cant be denied.
Another I see often is that you will lose alot of your gains during such a cut.
Havent there been studies showing that non-lean individuals on massive calorie deficits lose little to no muscle?
im sure ive seen results showing drops in body fat from 40–>15% at up to 5 pounds a week with very little LBM loss.
Its only when you get down to a lean zone that your body starts having trouble accessing fat stores to make up the excess energy, and at this point muscle becomes vulnerable.
basically what im saying is that its only the 12%—>6% sort of range that actually risks any muscle at all…and so a lot of the reason to avoid dirty food evaporates with that - as presumably even a good quality clean bulk will put you above 10% bf?
either way both groups are cutting in the danger zone
please link me the studies if im right and school me if im wrong
[quote]croatinpa wrote:
Understood Cueball, hence why i initially ‘tried’ to bring up the ‘finding your groove’ theory. My other posts where unfortunately a defense from flaming.
IQ totally agree but i think what happens at least WITH ME, is when i cut its sometimes hard to tell whether your cutting MUSCLE or cutting FAT. Which was my initial point.
I was in my last paragraph commenting on motile fat, versus fat that a person has had for years. If you eat clean, IMHO, the fat tends to be more motile, IMHO and one can reduce or increase it easier, not easily.
If one was to constantly use ‘dirty’ foods to bulk and went from say 152lbs - 226lbs by dirty bulking rather than clean bulking then, IMHO, it would far HARDER to cut body fat without loosing a ‘ton’ of muscle.
But transversely if one was to, IMHO, bulk ‘sorta’ cleanly then the cutting stage will be easier. And that is my point, and one i dont think was brought up in this thread?[/quote]
How you got there would make no difference. It wouldn’t be any harder to lose fat if you have the self control to eat the appropriate foods when you are trying to lose weight.
Plus if you eat your 100% clean foods I guarantee you adding that 75lbs will take you a hell of a lot longer. Why not just do what works quicker and have the discipline to do a real strict cut. Basically your saying you have the discipline to do hardcore clean bulks, but not enough to control yourself come cutting time if you eat burgers while bulking.
[quote]croatinpa wrote:
But transversely if one was to, IMHO, bulk ‘sorta’ cleanly then the cutting stage will be easier. And that is my point, and one i dont think was brought up in this thread?[/quote]
Actually lots of people have said that clean bulking allows an easier cut. That is one of the main arguements of the clean bulker’s side. But the “was this said or not” discussion is getting of thread topic so…
[quote]Professor X wrote:
<<< My biggest problem is finding the right amount of food. It is very difficult to diet AND eat enough food when I am eating food sources that have lesser caloric value. >>>[/quote]
I wouldn’t presume to advise you as such, but maybe just less of the same foods you’re used to would make the estimations simpler?
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Professor X wrote:
<<< My biggest problem is finding the right amount of food. It is very difficult to diet AND eat enough food when I am eating food sources that have lesser caloric value. >>>
I wouldn’t presume to advise you as such, but maybe just less of the same foods you’re used to would make the estimations simpler?[/quote]
That would mean less well drained triple whoppers.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
On average, right now, I eat about 2-3lbs of steak (grilling 12 steaks at a time that are each about .5-1lbs each which only lasts me about 3-4 days), 10 eggs, 2 cups of rice, 4 of those little bagel pizzas, and one to two protein shakes about 60-80gr each. If I find I am dropping too much weight, obviously that is increased and the calories may come from anywhere.
I am still trying to find what works best for me. No one has this shit all figured out. Anyone who even says they do is lying their ass off.[/quote]
If you feel that you drop too much weight, try those bagel pizzas with pepperoni cubes on them instead of just cheese. The extra calories from the pepperoni will trigger your best bulking gains, mate.
Good closing comment, though. That’s what I like about bodybuilding, there’s always room for improvement.
