yeah just eat healthy meals, bigass healthy ones but if thats not around have some fast food or something, just get those damn calories.
also i dont see the big deal in putting away a bag of chips if you weigh 170lbs at lean levels and are bulking
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
tonyc wrote:
Replace those empty calories with calories that do have more nutritional content. Now you take those empty calories over an extended period of time and the difference builds up.
Just a slight correction. There is no such thing as a ‘‘calorie with more nutritional content’’ or even such things as ‘‘empty calories’’.
Both are terms that are often used by mainstream nutritionists to illustrate that food devoid of much nutritional content will not have much health benefits.
You see a calorie is a unit measure. Specifically it is a measure of energy. Just like a centimeter or an inch is a unit of measure of length/distance.
So a calorie is actually not a ‘‘real’’ thing. It’s just a unit. The body doesn’t recognize ‘‘calories’’ it recognize nutrients (macro and micronutrients).
The proper concept that you are talking about should be phrase ‘‘foods with more nutritional content’’. An ‘‘empty food’’ doesn’t exist either. Empty food (or as you said empty calorie) means that the food you are eating is devoid of nutrients.
We have two ‘‘main’’ types of nutrients: macronutrients (proteins, carbs, fats) and micronutrients (vitamins, minerals and other ‘‘good’’ stuff).
Now, even junk food contains nutrients (since junk also has proteins, carbs and fats… although the last two are generally higher). In fact, when it comes to macronutrients density (the amount of macronutrients per gram of food) is generally much higher in junk food than in healthy foods.
So it is not so much that ‘‘junk’’ is devoid of nutrients, but rather that the nutrients found in that food are not really optimal for health and getting lean (e.g. too much saturated fat, too much high glycemic carbs, too little protein) and that they are relatively low in micronutrients.
I’m not saying that to say that one should eat a lot of junk to grow. Most peoples know my view on the subject. But I simply wanted to clarify that the concept of ‘‘empty’’ calories is a misnomer.
Every food you eat junk, clean and anything in between will provide at least some of the stuff your body needs to function properly and grow. It’s just that some foods will do so while being healthier and providing added benefits and less chances of increasing fat gain.
And while I do agree that a ‘‘clean bulk’’ (I hate the term bulking BTW), or more precisely a muscle growth phase based on eating only healthy food is the best option IF you can eat enough macronutrients (proteins, carbs, fats) to stimulate growth; I am also aware that some peoples actually require a lot more nutrients/food than others to grow. And also that some peoples don’t have much of an appetite. In those case the occasional use of the ultra-dense junk food (better to eat protein-based junk like burgers, chicken nuggets, etc rather than sugar-based junk) might be the only way to get the required amount of nutrients in.
I’m not saying that to validate ‘‘dirty bulking’’, but just to say that in some instances it is required.
Take Prof X for example he is 265lbs… probably was close to 280 until recently. Have you any idea how much nutrients are required to merely MAINTAIN that amount of mass? A ton!!! So I can understand why he sometimes need to eat very dense foods.
[/quote]
I’m glad you jumped in on this. Trib or myself can write the same thing for pages and everyone will act like we are instructing newbies to eat donuts for muscle growth. One author says the same thing and suddenly the whole thread quiets down.
[quote]Dirty_Bulk wrote:
Yeah, I love it when someone links to one of Dave Tate’s oreo articles and assumes that’s what we mean by ‘dirtying up’ the diet.[/quote]
Perhaps the same people should be directed to a picture of Dave Tate’s current physique and consider what role the Oreo’s had in getting him there.
Prof X what’s a typical day of eating for you?
[quote]Professor X wrote:
<<< My goal when gaining is to make sure my body definitely has enough to grow on. If I gain too much body fat, I reduce my intake slightly. What sense would it make to overcomplicate things beyond that? >>>[/quote]
Ya know, it really REALLY IS just this !@#$%^& simple. People act like body comp changes happen while you sleep one night. Recently I started getting leaner, but gains were slowing considerably so I boosted the food a bit. Gains have picked up again. The other side of the coin, but still. I don’t know anymore. I’m torn between thinking I’m a training genius and thinking maybe a whole lot of people just do not have the head for this. Even people with obvious intelligence.
[quote]schultzie wrote:
Prof X what’s a typical day of eating for you?[/quote]
When gaining or dieting? I don’t like giving that info publicly because dumbasses will always twist what you write. It also changes as I eat differently now than I did over a year ago. I try different things to see if they work better for me and obviously how I eat changes depending on my body weight and short term goal.
There is nothing completely constant in how I eat. If I write something now, it won’t hold true even six months to a year from now when someone digs this thread up.
I am trying to hold onto muscle mass right now while dieting…slowly. At this weight, it takes little effort to drop weight. Unfortunately, some muscle goes with it. I seem to lose an inch off my arms when I drop weight and that pisses me off.
I also can’t eat as often as I would like while at work which is what I think is contributing to it.
On average, right now, I eat about 2-3lbs of steak (grilling 12 steaks at a time that are each about .5-1lbs each which only lasts me about 3-4 days), 10 eggs, 2 cups of rice, 4 of those little bagel pizzas, and one to two protein shakes about 60-80gr each. If I find I am dropping too much weight, obviously that is increased and the calories may come from anywhere.
I am still trying to find what works best for me. No one has this shit all figured out. Anyone who even says they do is lying their ass off.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
<<< I am still trying to find what works best for me. No one has this shit all figured out. Anyone who even says they do is lying their ass off.[/quote]
You have a lot more experience with gaining than dieting from what I’ve gathered since I’ve been here. It’s only natural it would take some piddling around to find the groove. I know what you’re saying though too. Losing muscle worries me a whole lot more than gaining fat. Muscle takes a hell of a lot more time and effort to replace than fat does to lose.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Professor X wrote:
<<< My goal when gaining is to make sure my body definitely has enough to grow on. If I gain too much body fat, I reduce my intake slightly. What sense would it make to overcomplicate things beyond that? >>>
Ya know, it really REALLY IS just this !@#$%^& simple. People act like body comp changes happen while you sleep one night. Recently I started getting leaner, but gains were slowing considerably so I boosted the food a bit. Gains have picked up again. The other side of the coin, but still. I don’t know anymore. I’m torn between thinking I’m a training genius and thinking maybe a whole lot of people just do not have the head for this. Even people with obvious intelligence.[/quote]
It’s a lack of COMMON SENSE, not intelligence. Occam’s razor, simple shit works. Simple shit does not sell, though. Simple shit does not spit out articles continuously.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Professor X wrote:
<<< I am still trying to find what works best for me. No one has this shit all figured out. Anyone who even says they do is lying their ass off.
You have a lot more experience with gaining than dieting from what I’ve gathered since I’ve been here. It’s only natural it would take some piddling around to find the groove. I know what you’re saying though too. Losing muscle worries me a whole lot more than gaining fat. Muscle takes a hell of a lot more time and effort to replace than fat does to lose.[/quote]
My biggest problem is finding the right amount of food. It is very difficult to diet AND eat enough food when I am eating food sources that have lesser caloric value. I usually end up eating too little and losing too much muscle. I am trying to slow that down now and take my time. I really don’t care if it takes until July for me to reach a goal.
That is why I am avoiding foods like chicken breasts and tuna. I need the calories.
Unfortunately, steaks are damned expensive. I usually find them on sale about 3 days before their sale-by date. I then grill them and vacuum seal them. That has worked so far.
[quote]
jsbrook wrote:
Yes. Many did. You just weren’t paying attention.
tonyc wrote:
What are you referring to?
You, buddy. Did you even read the rest of my post summarizing the reasons–many which were already stated–why it’s preferable for some to include more junk food? Are you impaired?[/quote]
Umm I was referring to the yes. many did. Honestly, what possesses you to act like a dick when I haven’t disrespected you in any way? When you say yes. many did, that would refer to a question I asked, but in the previous post before yours, I did not ask a question. That’s all I was talking about. Take the stick out your ass.
I realize I did speak prematurely about gaining that extra weight. I apologize for causing any unnecessary arguments. ProfessorX and thibs, thanks for schooling me. I stand corrected. For a lot of the other guys, like tiribulus, I realize you have more knowledge of the subject as well, but I’m not one to change my mind easily unless there’s some more definite evidence behind it. Simply telling me, because it makes sure I get enough calories, without the underlying reason behind it didn’t make much sense to me. It never really hit me until thibs brought it up just how much the BIG people eat. Once again, I stand corrected. Thanks for the knowledge.
[quote]tonyc wrote:
It never really hit me until Thibs brought it up just how much the BIG people eat. [/quote]
Haha you were right PX, if CT says it its automatically golden.
In my humble opinion, i think eating clean or at least not eating McDonald’s hourly will allow you to control your weight better, up or down.
Let me explain- If you bulk ‘sorta’ clean you can more quickly see changes in your body that increases or decrease in your kcal provide.
Also and more importantly when you go to cut, and cut slowly you can find your ‘groove’. Your ‘groove’ where your eating just enough to gain, then your ‘groove’ where your eating just enough to maintain, and finally just enough to loose.
When you eat dirty its much harder to find that ‘just enough groove’ and you end up either not loosing enough weight or worse you drop to fast and loose muscle with the weight.
REASON-Big Mac’s are such calorie packed food that they are like food on juice, lol. When you eat those types of ‘dirty’ foods the results on your food are extreme, in comparison to normal foods, and when your constantly on those extreme foods its really hard to find a middle ground with your diet and with the ‘groove’ for gains or losses.
Conclusion- Eat the triple, quad, double Mac with Bacon Wendy’s Whooper thats, flame kissed with love, but eat it understanding that your in you at the beginning or middle of your bulking cycle and really dont need to control your kcal yet. Don’t consume it say after the the 2/3 point of a bulking cycle and obviously eat one after you won the ‘O’ because your numbero uno!
[quote]GetSwole wrote:
tonyc wrote:
It never really hit me until Thibs brought it up just how much the BIG people eat.
Haha you were right PX, if CT says it its automatically golden.[/quote]
That’s the only reason this thread is six pages long.
My stance hasn’t changed since I got here over 8 years ago. It is amazing it took that long for people to actually start listening. Meanwhile, I have seen very few make significant progress in that time period by worrying this much about how “clean” they are eating.
You see many people who have lost weight who used to be much fatter or obese, but very few have gained enough muscle mass to impress someone.
God i wish i could proof read, sorry guys.
[quote]croatinpa wrote:
In my humble opinion, i think eating clean or at least not eating McDonald’s hourly will allow you to control your weight better, up or down.
Let me explain- If you bulk ‘sorta’ clean you can more quickly see changes in your body that increases or decrease in your kcal provide.
Also and more importantly when you go to cut, and cut slowly you can find your ‘groove’. Your ‘groove’ where your eating just enough to gain, then your ‘groove’ where your eating just enough to maintain, and finally just enough to loose.
When you eat dirty its much harder to find that ‘just enough groove’ and you end up either not loosing enough weight or worse you drop to fast and loose muscle with the weight.
REASON-Big Mac’s are such calorie packed food that they are like food on juice, lol. When you eat those types of ‘dirty’ foods the results on your food are extreme, in comparison to normal foods, and when your constantly on those extreme foods its really hard to find a middle ground with your diet and with the ‘groove’ for gains or losses.
Conclusion- Eat the triple, quad, double Mac with Bacon Wendy’s Whooper thats, flame kissed with love, but eat it understanding that your in you at the beginning or middle of your bulking cycle and really dont need to control your kcal yet. Don’t consume it say after the the 2/3 point of a bulking cycle and obviously eat one after you won the ‘O’ because your numbero uno! [/quote]
No offense, guy, as I really want you to continue making progress and I hope nothing slows you down in bodybuilding…but it irks me to no end when people who aren’t that big try to inform me of how to get there.
Not one person in this thread said a damn thing about eating McDonald’s, and especially not HOURLY.
Why do so many of you make up arguments that no one has ever made?
Is that the only way you have something to type?
[quote]GetSwole wrote:
tonyc wrote:
It never really hit me until Thibs brought it up just how much the BIG people eat.
Haha you were right PX, if CT says it its automatically golden.[/quote]
Not really… thibs and professor x brought up the same point of how ridiculously much one has to eat sometimes maintain weight or gain. While I only accredited thibs, professor X would have changed my mind himself. I didn’t check the forums after last morning, so I read all the posts at one time. Sue me. But the amount of eating was the missing piece for me. I get around 3500 calories a day right now and I know I could boost my caloric intake without much trouble and keep it mostly clean. In fact, I know I could get that many calories and keep it “Clean” if I so desired. People were talking like getting enough calories while eating clean is impossible. I don’t know how much Professor X is eating, but assuredly he’s gotta get a ton of more cals than I do. I can see at a certain point how it would definitely bring up problems eating “clean” and getting enough cals. That’s all.
and its only golden because he looks like vin diesel
None taken Prof X. It was stated on 4/7, page 2 of this thread an argument about 1 lbs of walnuts vs a whooper or quarter pounder or big mac (all the same to me as it’s only an example for an argument)
anyhow i went from 152 lbs (29" waist) to a max weight prior to my shoulder injury of 226lbs (35" waist) in 4 years, NATURALLY! Not assisted, not juiced, food and training.
So i would like to state that i did learn something from 4 years of bulking. And as its been stated many times before, its harder to gain muscle than it is to loose fat, well i gained muscle and didn’t have to loose fat, making my journey much more difficult.
Finally im not trying to bash or urke anyone, i was using SARCASM and being dramatic to show you all a point.
The point being that there is a ‘groove’ or middle ground that you find when you bulking or cut.
I boxed in college, i would be willing to bet i bulked and cut WAY more than you ever did. I would be willing to be you bulk more than you cut (throughout your career), and be willing to bet that you never had to fluctuate your weight any where near as much as I did, a boxer does. I went from 154 (Junior Middleweight) to 175lbs (light heavy weight) and back, MANY times, including middle weight.
No offense GUY, but it urks me when you didn’t read what i was trying to write and flame me without knowing me.
ALL i was trying to do was give some of my EXPERIENCE to the readers of this thread.
PLEASE NOTE THE FIRST LINE OF MY LAST POST.
Tonyc’s comments and questions about ‘actual amount’ is exactly what im talking about.
NO ONE can say this is how much Tonyc should eat or do, you have to know yourself and visually see where your diet it taking you.
(And im not saying Prof X is, nor am i saying he doesn’t know what he’s talking about, as he seems VERY knowledgeable)
What i am saying is its as simple as this, if your working your ass of in the gym and know you are and you are STILL gaining weight, then guess what; your bulking diet is probably working.
If that same diet is feasible in your life and work schedule, than great keep it up! If you aren’t, eat more, eventually you will find the right mix or you will give up.
HOWEVER when it comes time to cut and you end up loosing more muscle than you would like, then MAYBE you need to think about eating cleaner next time.
[quote]croatinpa wrote:
Tonyc’s comments and questions about ‘actual amount’ is exactly what im talking about.
NO ONE can say this is how much Tonyc should eat or do, you have to know yourself and visually see where your diet it taking you.
(And im not saying Prof X is, nor am i saying he doesn’t know what he’s talking about, as he seems VERY knowledgeable)
What i am saying is its as simple as this, if your working your ass of in the gym and know you are and you are STILL gaining weight, then guess what; your bulking diet is probably working.
If that same diet is feasible in your life and work schedule, than great keep it up! If you aren’t, eat more, eventually you will find the right mix or you will give up.
HOWEVER when it comes time to cut and you end up loosing more muscle than you would like, then MAYBE you need to think about eating cleaner next time. [/quote]
I think part of the problem is that you came into this discussion page 6 and aren’t saying anything new. Everything you said (minus your little bio) has been said already. More than once. Contributing to a discussion is fine, but be sure you’re actually contributing.
cueball