Clean/Dirty Bulking?

tonyc · April 9, 2008, 12:44am

[quote]GetSwole wrote:
How do you know this?

And here in lies the problem, I didn’t say you couldn’t make gains your way, but I did say you can not make gains optimally (meaning as quickly as possible that way), so really you just proved my point. That it is more efficient to loosely track macros and really just focus on eating enough calories if your goal is to gain muscle AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE (which is the key phrase). That is the goal that proponents of my view are arguing for. And frankly, I don’t see why you wouldn’t do so to get to your desired size as fast as possible, then easily and quickly diet the bit of excess fat off.[/quote]

Haha touchee sir.

But I have honestly played around with different caloric intakes to see what goes on. I used 3-week intervals and gauged how my body and gains changed. Yea i know it wasn’t the most objective means of measuring gains but f it. Probably should have used longer periods but I was just trying to play around with it. First basically I found out how many calories I need. You basically start eating a target amount of calories and if your weight doesn’t change, then bingo.

After that I played with different caloric intake levels. I will admit it was hard to adjust what was caloric surplus relative to my weight at the time was, so honestly I just kind of guessed that part… haha.

But I played with a caloric surplus of 250, 350, 500, and 750. The 750 calories was just way too much excess. I will admit that the gains were slightly better when I was eating 500 calories than when I was eating 250-350, but I also gained about 8 pounds in that 3 weeks. I think that’s a bit too fast for weight gain and I noticed my abs disappearing. (I can hear the flames already).

The point is if I kept continuing at that rate, a large percentage of my weight gain would have been fat. Now when it’s time to cut, I have a lot more fat to cut. I don’t think anyone is going to deny that muscle loss happens when you cut. It’s pretty much inevitable. Obviously, the more fat you got, the longer you’re cutting = the more muscle lost. The faster you cut, the more likely you’re improperly cutting as well. Then you gotta spend time again rebuilding back that muscle lost if you so choose to decide to be bigger. (i can hear the flames about not wanting to be f’in huge again as well)

So at about 250-350 calories, I realized that I was gaining a good amount of muscle while not gaining too much fat. In fact, I managed it as I would like to think, pretty damn well, since I’ve managed to keep my six pack. I admit I have a brief cutting session if I start losing sight of my abs, and before I hear any shit about that, remember that I never once mentioned anything anyone else doing this. I know it slows down progress, but I don’t care.

Yes I’m one of those “homo” guys that likes to have defined abs. I realize this goes back off on a tangent here so by all means if you’re in fear of that: skip this section

The reason why I choose to keep my six pack is for the ladies. I in no way think I’m a ladies man or anything either. But, for instance, last weekend I went to a party, and started to dance with this one girl. She happened to put her hand on my stomach and said to me, “ooo what’s this?” I could tell she was turned on by feeling my abs. Hell, she even grabbed her twin sister who was standing a few feet away and she had a feel.

Honestly, that’s fuckin hot to me. What heterosexual man wouldn’t be happy about turning on a woman from her touching his abs? Sadly though, I had to digress as I am true to my woman. Point is though, I’m in college, and while I’m here for an edumacation, I’m also having a damn good time. I don’t know when I’m going to stop getting bigger. It might not be before I’m out of college. It might be. I dunno. I’m just simply trying to make the most out of where I am right now and bodybuilding isn’t my main goal.

I also live 20 minutes from the beach and during the summer, it is packed as do bring in a ton of tourists as well. You can see where that is heading. That’s just how it applies to me. Everyone has their own story, but that’s why I’ve chosen the path I did.

Fulmen · April 9, 2008, 12:55am

Tony, you’ll never be big.

Now I withdraw from this discussion any longer-GetSwole spoke for me.

tonyc · April 9, 2008, 1:16am

tonyc wrote:
<<< Sorry bud, like I said, most women would find a massive guy unattractive or even repulsive. >>>

Tiribulus wrote:
You said this as if I somehow indicated that I gave a shit even if it were true. I shouldn’t have responded to it as it’s a topic for another thread that I never would’ve posted in. I couldn’t care less.

The general topic of this thread has been gone over and over and over and over long before you were here. Seriously, you have no idea.

I’m frankly becoming numb to discussing it. You seem like a sharp enough guy who knows his goals so fair enough. For somebody who does want to push their potential lots of eating will be required and if some of it isn’t what I would eat and it moves them closer to their goals that’s all that should matter to them.

Honestly tiribulus, the first part of the post wasn’t directed at you. I apologize if you thought it was as the format of the post was shitty, but it was my defense for Dirty bulk’s post of
“Lol at; 'I don’t wanna get too big, just maybe the size of a small olympia winner.”

I agree with you that someone who wants to push their potential needs to do a lot of eating. I agree that if they are perfectly content with their progress, then it shouldn’t matter to them. But obviously if a kid is say 120 lbs, he doesn’t need to be getting 5000 cals a day, if he could even eat that much. He would obviously put on a ton of freaking fat with the muscle. So for simplicity sakes, we will assume that he is getting an optimal amount of calories.

So lets say he needs 2500 calories and he would be getting that amount no matter if he’s “clean” bulking or “dirty” bulking. Now comes the content of the actual diet. By clean, I mean not ever eating candy, icecream, or junk foods. No condiments like mayo or ketchup. Only salt and spices to flavor food.

Basically no foods with calories that have basically no nutritional value. I’m not implying that people who “dirty” bulk do eat junk foods in any way either. But from the example of the triple whopper, unless they ask for no mayo and all that, they’re eating a ton of empty calories. Apparently we have a bunch of extremists who think the best way to get big as fast as possible is just to eat a shit ton.

Obviously there’s a limit so you cut back. Calories is just a way to gauge that limit. Nothing more. nothing less. as for the content of the diet, i’ve explained the concept many times as have other people. If it doesn’t make any sense, then honestly think logically and read over it a few times. It’s not a complicated concept whatsoever.

and fulmen/getswole, no fuckin shit. I already said I dont wanna get f’in huge. Big would depend on your definition of big as the terms big and huge are pretty vague… ignorant jackass. You never know, I might just have enough lbm weight that you might classify me as big. Maybe your definition of big is outside my bounds of how big I want to be. Oh well, because that’s not my goal anyways. You’re almost as bad as the other jackass who posted and said that he was big and I find that he weighs 177.

Work_For_It · April 9, 2008, 1:42am

[quote]tonyc wrote:
GetSwole wrote:
How do you know this?

And here in lies the problem, I didn’t say you couldn’t make gains your way, but I did say you can not make gains optimally (meaning as quickly as possible that way), so really you just proved my point. That it is more efficient to loosely track macros and really just focus on eating enough calories if your goal is to gain muscle AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE (which is the key phrase). That is the goal that proponents of my view are arguing for. And frankly, I don’t see why you wouldn’t do so to get to your desired size as fast as possible, then easily and quickly diet the bit of excess fat off.