Citizen Shot By Plainclothes Cops

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
41

[quote]snipeout wrote:
Yeah, until that well armed mob accuses you of something you didn’t do and they decide to string you up in your front yard. [/quote]

Uhhh, this happens anyway. “Trial by jury” is trial by the same mob you think is not filled with justice. The only difference is there is no pretense of civility with “mob justice”. You think people lose their sense of justice just because some formal institution exists to “enforce” it? The idea of justice has to exist before an institution can exist to provide it. And frankly, I think we can provide justice to our individual communities with out police or government courts just fine.

I prefer to take my chances with “chaotic” self interest than the idea of uniformed justice. Maybe “mob justice” would keep people minding their own business for a change.

Butt the fuck out!

42

And since this topic heats up even more when a black man is shot by police officers…

If I’m a young black man, looking at the stats and adjusting for population, am I more likely to be shot by a police officer, or another young black man?

43

Thank you for your thorough post JD430.

44

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
snipeout wrote:
Yeah, until that well armed mob accuses you of something you didn’t do and they decide to string you up in your front yard.

Uhhh, this happens anyway. “Trial by jury” is trial by the same mob you think is not filled with justice. The only difference is there is no pretense of civility with “mob justice”. You think people lose their sense of justice just because some formal institution exists to “enforce” it? The idea of justice has to exist before an institution can exist to provide it. And frankly, I think we can provide justice to our individual communities with out police or government courts just fine.

I prefer to take my chances with “chaotic” self interest than the idea of uniformed justice. Maybe “mob justice” would keep people minding their own business for a change.

Butt the fuck out![/quote]

Everything that comes out your mouth is nonsensical bullshit. Everything needs regulation to some degree. What if the mob on 4th street has different guidlines than the mob on 3rd street. What happens if you are caught fucking your neighbors sheep on the corner of 3rd and 4th again? Does 3rd st. mob rule go in to effect or is it 4th st.

Let uniformed, uneducated mobs deliver justice. We will have no one versed in sensible law studies decide any type of procedure. We’ll just have Jim-Bob, his mob and his rope. Because mob mentality is always to do the right thing.

45

[quote]Sloth wrote:
And since this topic heats up even more when a black man is shot by police officers…

If I’m a young black man, looking at the stats and adjusting for population, am I more likely to be shot by a police officer, or another young black man? [/quote]

94% of blacks are killed by blacks. 86% of whites are killed by whites. The difference being is that victimization rate for blacks is 6 times higher than whites. Basically 94% of 600 is ALOT more than 86% of 100.

I would say based on my expeience in my county, I can only think of 3 incidents of use of deadly force by cops in the last 6 years. None of which resulted in death to the offender. 2 of the 3 were attempting suicide by cop.

46

[quote]snipeout wrote:
What if the mob on 4th street has different guidlines than the mob on 3rd street. What happens if you are caught fucking your neighbors sheep on the corner of 3rd and 4th again? Does 3rd st. mob rule go in to effect or is it 4th st. [/quote]

So what?! How is it any different than what exists now on the most fundamental level? All communities have their own standards for what is acceptable and what is not and there are always disputes that need to be settled. Government does not need to get involved with these. I prefer a level playing field with highly armed citizens than some under-qualified, over-payed uniformed thug playing superhero.

People who do not trust society to function with out some arbitrary form of control have some backward sense that people are inherently evil. This cannot be true. People just want to be left alone.

[quote]
Let uniformed, uneducated mobs deliver justice. We will have no one versed in sensible law studies decide any type of procedure.[/quote]

This is just plain not true. Ideas must always precede action. That these ideas already exist is enough for society to organize itself within a framework of proper justice. In other words, the clocks are not going to be set back to the times of barbarism.

What else do you expect, that farmers will go back to plowing fields with oxen?

47

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

People who do not trust society to function with out some arbitrary form of control have some backward sense that people are inherently evil. This cannot be true. People just want to be left alone.

[/quote]

Unfortunately some people are fucked up beyond repair and can do a lot of harm before they are stopped.

48

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

People who do not trust society to function with out some arbitrary form of control have some backward sense that people are inherently evil. This cannot be true. People just want to be left alone.
[/quote]

“People” do? Looking around, this doesn’t appear to be the case. Heck, if “people” just wanted to be left alone, governments wouldn’t have been formed in the first place. Everyone would’ve been busy being left alone. Obviously someone wanted to participate in government, or wanted someone else to.

If people just wanted to be left alone, I could keep my doors and windows open while I slept. Never worrying once what might happen. Parents could just let their children roam around freely, catching a ride home with anybody that might stop and offer. Gosh, that would be great.

Of course, if “people” really wanted to be left alone, you wouldn’t have felt the need to mention a highly armed citizenry, either.

49

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
snipeout wrote:
What if the mob on 4th street has different guidlines than the mob on 3rd street. What happens if you are caught fucking your neighbors sheep on the corner of 3rd and 4th again? Does 3rd st. mob rule go in to effect or is it 4th st.

So what?! How is it any different than what exists now on the most fundamental level? All communities have their own standards for what is acceptable and what is not and there are always disputes that need to be settled. Government does not need to get involved with these.

I prefer a level playing field with highly armed citizens than some under-qualified, over-payed uniformed thug playing superhero.

People who do not trust society to function with out some arbitrary form of control have some backward sense that people are inherently evil. This cannot be true. People just want to be left alone.

Let uniformed, uneducated mobs deliver justice. We will have no one versed in sensible law studies decide any type of procedure.

This is just plain not true. Ideas must always precede action. That these ideas already exist is enough for society to organize itself within a framework of proper justice. In other words, the clocks are not going to be set back to the times of barbarism.

What else do you expect, that farmers will go back to plowing fields with oxen?[/quote]

Contrary to your belief a decent percentage of people are inherently evil.

50

[quote]Inner Hulk wrote:

I’m just saying a cop should be required to take out a knee cap instead of dumping 6 shots into their chest if the suspect is only wielding something like a knife.[/quote]

laughs

mike

51

[quote]snipeout wrote:

Contrary to your belief a decent percentage of people are inherently evil.
[/quote]

This seems a dangerous attitude for an officer to have.

mike

52

[quote]Sloth wrote:
“People” do? Looking around, this doesn’t appear to be the case. Heck, if “people” just wanted to be left alone, governments wouldn’t have been formed in the first place. [/quote]

First of all the notion of government by the people is brand-spanking-new. Government was first and foremost a means of control over the masses. The power-elite did not care about justice. The notion of modern justice did not come along until many wars over power later.

[quote]
If people just wanted to be left alone, I could keep my doors and windows open while I slept. Never worrying once what might happen. Parents could just let their children roam around freely, catching a ride home with anybody that might stop and offer. Gosh, that would be great.[/quote]

Does the notion of police protection allow you to keep your doors unlocked and let your children freely associate with strangers?

How does the existence of a police department change any of these ideas?

[quote]
Of course, if “people” really wanted to be left alone, you wouldn’t have felt the need to mention a highly armed citizenry, either.[/quote]

People do want to be left alone, but don’t mistake that for the idea that there aren’t people looking to take advantage of you. Even still, the police don’t protect you from that. You have to remain vigilant in your own safety. Thus has it ever been, thus it will always be.

53

[quote]snipeout wrote:
Contrary to your belief a decent percentage of people are inherently evil.
[/quote]

What percentage?

There are currently 2 million people incarcerated in the US out of 300 million. How many of those .7% people that are incarcerated are evil?

Without cops there would be a lot less evil people roaming freely and consequently a lot less people needlessly in prison.

54

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
snipeout wrote:
Yeah, until that well armed mob accuses you of something you didn’t do and they decide to string you up in your front yard.

Uhhh, this happens anyway. “Trial by jury” is trial by the same mob you think is not filled with justice. The only difference is there is no pretense of civility with “mob justice”. You think people lose their sense of justice just because some formal institution exists to “enforce” it?

The idea of justice has to exist before an institution can exist to provide it. And frankly, I think we can provide justice to our individual communities with out police or government courts just fine.

I prefer to take my chances with “chaotic” self interest than the idea of uniformed justice. Maybe “mob justice” would keep people minding their own business for a change.

Butt the fuck out![/quote]

You’ve never lived in area where gangs fight over territory have you? It’s bad as it is with cops, but if there weren’t and you left the “mob” protect you, it’ll be a lot worse. And contrary to what you believe in, if you live in a mob rule, you will not be left the fuck alone, you will have to give something if asked for.

They’d want a tribute or certain amount of money to let you be around. You may say, yes cool it guarantees your protection, but once they start leaving you a dollar of your whole paycheck, then I’m sure you won’t be to happy about this arrangement.

Let’s say some gang leader wants your woman and demands to spend time with her. You got the balls to refuse? Either way, he’ll just take her even if it’s against her will and do what he wants with her without fear of prosecution. In the meantime you got his boys jamming their piece right onto the side of your head, daring you to do something stupid.

Or Let’s say you see a couple of members of the mob walking past your house, and they notice you looking and feel that you were giving them a dirty look even though you weren’t. Guess what, you’ll get the shit kicked out of you severely, and you’d be lucky if someone takes you to the hospital, cause after all you are under mob rule, maybe they don’t allow ambulences on their turf.

Careful what you wish for there, because you may not like it as much as you think.

55

[quote]Mikeyali wrote:
snipeout wrote:

Contrary to your belief a decent percentage of people are inherently evil.

This seems a dangerous attitude for an officer to have.

mike[/quote]

Actually it’s this attitude that keeps me going home to my family every night. If I were to assume that everyone was good I could not stay on my toes.

56

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
snipeout wrote:
Contrary to your belief a decent percentage of people are inherently evil.

What percentage?

There are currently 2 million people incarcerated in the US out of 300 million. How many of those .7% people that are incarcerated are evil?

Without cops there would be a lot less evil people roaming freely and consequently a lot less people needlessly in prison.[/quote]

Do you think people that rob, murder, rape, steal, assault, burn buildings down would all of the sudden become mob rule abiding citizens and assimilate in to society? If you believe that I have a bridge for sale, which reminds me let’s not forget about all the con artists that would stop to abide by the rules of your utopia.

57

[quote]jayski wrote:
And contrary to what you believe in, if you live in a mob rule, you will not be left the fuck alone, you will have to give something if asked for. [/quote]

An armed society does no such thing.

58

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
jayski wrote:
And contrary to what you believe in, if you live in a mob rule, you will not be left the fuck alone, you will have to give something if asked for.

An armed society does no such thing.[/quote]

LOL If you say so…

59

[quote]snipeout wrote:
Do you think people that rob, murder, rape, steal, assault, burn buildings down would all of the sudden become mob rule abiding citizens and assimilate in to society? [/quote]

No, absolutely not!

But let me ask you this, do you think the notion of consequences disappear in a self-policing (and armed) society?

Scumbags will always exist. This does not mean that somehow the lack of official police will increase the number of scumbags in existence as similarly it does not follow that more police reduce their numbers. There is no cause and effect relationship between crime and the number of police on the street. This has more to do with economics than anything.

If anything more cops just mean more people in jail – but not necessarily criminals in jail – at least by my standards of what a criminal is.

60

[quote]jayski wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
jayski wrote:
And contrary to what you believe in, if you live in a mob rule, you will not be left the fuck alone, you will have to give something if asked for.

An armed society does no such thing.

LOL If you say so…[/quote]

I do say so. It was an armed people that put down an entire empire over 200 years ago. This is not the only example I can cite for armed people defending themselves.