[quote]JD430 wrote:
True. Previously it was left up to the whims of the warlord or the tribal leaders.[/quote]
Luckily, we live in a modern era where guns are relatively cheap and everyone can now afford their own piece of mind.
[quote]JD430 wrote:
True. Previously it was left up to the whims of the warlord or the tribal leaders.[/quote]
Luckily, we live in a modern era where guns are relatively cheap and everyone can now afford their own piece of mind.
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
JD430 wrote:
True. Previously it was left up to the whims of the warlord or the tribal leaders.
Luckily, we live in a modern era where guns are relatively cheap and everyone can now afford their own piece of mind.[/quote]
How well did that work out for those that stood against the Taliban before we arrived? Hell, how well does that work out HERE?
Mass ownership of firearms can help you die with your boots on like a free man, but just as the feds have the biggest guns right now (to our detriment), it still takes decent sized groups of well-trained men to secure liberty and keep the wolf at the door.
mike
[quote]JD430 wrote:
[/quote]
I was hoping you’d show up to this thread. What are your thoughts re: arresting procedures for plainclothes cops?
mike
[quote]Bigd1970 wrote:
I have to disagree with you, I see Officer’s punished for their misdeeds quite a bit. I have even conducted a few of those misguided investigations on Officer’s.
So, to have you imply that I would somehow be dishonest in my investigations, is a slap in my face. I seek the truth, if it happened, it happened, if it did not, then it did not.
The unfortunate thing is that many of the cases brought against officer’s are brought out by those who would benefit most by slandering the Officer’s name. Most of those investigations turn out to be nothing more than a thug trying to get over on the Po Po.
Did I run into Officer’s who you described as protecting other Officer’s, yes. But no more than the Adam Henry Civilian who does not want to get involved when they were the best witness to a Rape, because it may interfere with their busy schedule.
Lets face it society is just messed up, and we can have anarchy, or Officer’s who are willing to give up their lives to protect you and your family. [/quote]
Like those that hung around “establishing a perimeter” at VT? I do think most cops suck, but a hearty thanks to those of you that are willing to put your ass on the line. Rest assured I’d do the same for you. That said, I think the best justice given to California was the one Ronnie Barret gave you a few years back. Read number 1:
http://www.arthurshall.com/x_2007_manly_firearms.shtml
mike
[quote]Mikeyali wrote:
JD430 wrote:
I was hoping you’d show up to this thread. What are your thoughts re: arresting procedures for plainclothes cops?
mike[/quote]
Greetings mike,
Largely I agree with the sentiments of the blogger that you posted at the start of this thread. Always try to get a uniformed guy there first. However, when things evolve rapidly, that is not always possible.
I do take umbrage with two things he said. 1. Shooting someone in the back does not indicate a bad shoot. Examine every circumstance on it’s own.
That, along with things like bemoaning a large number of shots, is a red herring loved by community agitators. 2. I wouldn’t cheerlead a federal civil rights violation. A clusterfuck is a clusterfuck but rarely is there a malicious deprivation of civil rights.
Just in my little corner of the world, the absolute two worst police shootings I know of in this area were FBI. They should remember that.
Ccw courses should definately include training in handling cops. All plain clothes guys get that training. When Mumbai attacks happened, I mentally put myself there many times(good practice for all armed men btw) and in the scenarios where I am off duty and armed, I keep having the nagging feeling that I have almost as good a chance of being shot by the responding cops…
Fuck it…somewhat separate observation but would all be well served to realize it is a dangerous world and bad things can happen. A lot of the vitriol I see in discussions like this one is a direct byproduct of how easy we have it.
[quote]JD430 wrote:
Mikeyali wrote:
JD430 wrote:
I was hoping you’d show up to this thread. What are your thoughts re: arresting procedures for plainclothes cops?
mike
Greetings mike,
Largely I agree with the sentiments of the blogger that you posted at the start of this thread. Always try to get a uniformed guy there first. However, when things evolve rapidly, that is not always possible.
I do take umbrage with two things he said. 1. Shooting someone in the back does not indicate a bad shoot. Examine every circumstance on it’s own.
That, along with things like bemoaning a large number of shots, is a red herring loved by community agitators. 2. I wouldn’t cheerlead a federal civil rights violation. A clusterfuck is a clusterfuck but rarely is there a malicious deprivation of civil rights.
Just in my little corner of the world, the absolute two worst police shootings I know of in this area were FBI. They should remember that.
Ccw courses should definately include training in handling cops. All plain clothes guys get that training. When Mumbai attacks happened, I mentally put myself there many times(good practice for all armed men btw) and in the scenarios where I am off duty and armed, I keep having the nagging feeling that I have almost as good a chance of being shot by the responding cops…
Fuck it…somewhat separate observation but would all be well served to realize it is a dangerous world and bad things can happen. A lot of the vitriol I see in discussions like this one is a direct byproduct of how easy we have it.
[/quote]
Agreed all around. In this particular case though I don’t see why they couldn’t have waited on a blue shirt.
mike
[quote]Mikeyali wrote:
JD430 wrote:
I was hoping you’d show up to this thread. What are your thoughts re: arresting procedures for plainclothes cops?
mike[/quote]
Greetings mike,
Largely I agree with the sentiments of the blogger that you posted at the start of this thread. Always try to get a uniformed guy there first. However, when things evolve rapidly, that is not always possible.
I do take umbrage with two things he said. 1. Shooting someone in the back does not indicate a bad shoot. Examine every circumstance on it’s own.
That, along with things like bemoaning a large number of shots, is a red herring loved by community agitators. 2. I wouldn’t cheerlead a federal civil rights violation. A clusterfuck is a clusterfuck but rarely is there a malicious deprivation of civil rights.
Just in my little corner of the world, the absolute two worst police shootings I know of in this area were FBI. They should remember that.
Ccw courses should definately include training in handling cops. All plain clothes guys get that training. When Mumbai attacks happened, I mentally put myself there many times(good practice for all armed men btw) and in the scenarios where I am off duty and armed, I keep having the nagging feeling that I have almost as good a chance of being shot by the responding cops…
Fuck it…somewhat separate observation but would all be well served to realize it is a dangerous world and bad things can happen. A lot of the vitriol I see in discussions like this one is a direct byproduct of how easy we have it.
[quote]Mikeyali wrote:
http://xavierthoughts.blogspot.com/2009/01/new-year-blood-in-new-orleans.html
Interesting story. As a citizen who carries on a daily basis I have consistently felt more afraid of police than of violent criminals. That is part of the reason I went from open carry to concealed carry.
What are your thoughts on plainclothes cops and arresting procedures?
mike[/quote]
You should fear the drug sellers poisoning the youth of this country, or the gang wars going on by in LA and other cities near the mexican border that have claimed to many innocent lives or how about Black on Black crimes. You should be more concerned about black people. You see, black people commit most of the crime (Violent) in this country even though they make up 13 percent of the population. Fear against cops? You should fear black men? Fear our legal system? You should fear black men. Black people assault, rape and murder each other at an insanely disproportionate rate in comparison to their 13% overall population in America. But nobody cares,nobody wants to say anything about that.I see a 13 year old black kid hanging around older gang members at 3am in a violent drug prone location drinking alcohol and I get bittched at by the kids parents for bring him back home being called every name in the book just because of the uniform I wear. Foolish me I thought I was doing the parent a favor.I thought I was keeping him out of trouble so he doesn’t end up as just another youth gunned down in our cities.
You must understand that I am a fortune teller. I can predict the future. Tomorrow I will wake up, have coffee, take the News to my toilet, open it up and I will read how one black man killed another black man again! and again and again and again and again. On January 18th I will read the same type of story but only the names will change. On January 19th I will read the same type of story and only the names will change. I will read this same story in February, March, April and May. I will read these stories during Kwanzaa, Martin Luther King Day and all through black history month. I will read this story all the way to December 31st of 2009 and start it all over again in 2010. Than 2011, 2012 and 2013. My children will grow reading the same story and only the names will change. But nobody cares about that. But cops we should riot against. But cops we should fear
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Citizens should police themselves and fire all the cops.[/quote]
yep we should do that. Since citizens can do our jobs better anway, and lets be real the citizens of this country don’t really want cops anyway. Cops in most big cities like San Franciso,LA,NYC are basically security guards anyway and soon the rest of the country will follow. So i say why fight it give the people of this country what they want which is a do nothing police force.Sure we’ll take the reports and all but lets have the drug dealers and the gang bangers do there thing lets have the robbers and the serial rapists do there own thing.Instead of being proactive, just be reactive and when city after city gets burned down maybe then they will want cops to be cops again.
[quote]Nyballer31 wrote:
You should fear the drug sellers poisoning the youth of this country, or the gang wars going on by in LA and other cities near the mexican border that have claimed to many innocent lives or how about Black on Black crimes.
[/quote]
Drug sellers poisoning the youth of society? First of all- do you do “DARE” programs? Sounds like you do.
Anyway, the gang bangers, drug cartels, and violence between them are a product of probhition. Derrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
A violent and wickedly competitive black market for illegal drugs CAN’T EXIST IF THE DRUGS ARE LEGAL. How many gangs do you see slinging cigarettes and alcohol? Yeah, exactly. Maybe you should stop demonizing drugs and demonize the drug LAWS that have birthed this fucked up situation.
Maybe you should listen to cops who have common sense, like LEAP(Law Enforcement Against Prohibition)- http://www.leap.cc/cms/index.php
Up until the early 1900s it was pretty much general consensus that the constitution protected an individuals right to ingest or consume whatever the fuck they wanted. That’s what we need to get back to, immediately.
[quote]
Nyballer31 wrote:
Yet another person who has never walked a day in a cops boots but hes a expert on police tactics. Maybe cops are paranoid because we are walking into the unknown. That cop doesn’t know you, you could be a emotionally disturbed person where the slightest thing can set you off,you could have a warrant,driving in a stolen vehicle, or worse yet wanted for murder in another state and you are hellbent on not going to jail tonight and will do everything possible to make sure that officer doesn’t take you there.Then we have people like you out there where we tell you a simple thing like stay in the car or put your hands on the steering wheel and you want to argue and fight.Whether you realize it or not having you stay in the car is not being paranoid that is simply good tactics. [/quote]
I’m curious- Do you EVER approach a person or car with the thought that maybe the person is a sane, law abiding citizen? Or is that completely out of the question?
Everyone’s possibly a psychopath or criminal with warrants? Yeah, that sounds like a good approach to every situation. lol.
What I’m wondering about is why are cops so trigger happy when they do draw weapons and fire? Why are cops emptying clips and reloading? Why are they shooting a single individual FOURTEEN times? Do they think they’re taking on Superman?
I’m curious- do they train you guys to avoid mortally wounding someone? Or is it “aim for the chest or head and shoot as many times as possible”?
I’m just saying a cop should be required to take out a knee cap instead of dumping 6 shots into their chest if the suspect is only wielding something like a knife.
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Citizens should police themselves and fire all the cops.[/quote]
Yeah, mob justice is wonderful.
[quote]Inner Hulk wrote:
Nyballer31 wrote:
Yet another person who has never walked a day in a cops boots but hes a expert on police tactics. Maybe cops are paranoid because we are walking into the unknown. That cop doesn’t know you, you could be a emotionally disturbed person where the slightest thing can set you off,you could have a warrant,driving in a stolen vehicle, or worse yet wanted for murder in another state and you are hellbent on not going to jail tonight and will do everything possible to make sure that officer doesn’t take you there.Then we have people like you out there where we tell you a simple thing like stay in the car or put your hands on the steering wheel and you want to argue and fight.Whether you realize it or not having you stay in the car is not being paranoid that is simply good tactics.
I’m curious- Do you EVER approach a person or car with the thought that maybe the person is a sane, law abiding citizen? Or is that completely out of the question?
Everyone’s possibly a psychopath or criminal with warrants? Yeah, that sounds like a good approach to every situation. lol.[/quote]
Being a cop myself I would NEVER approach a car thinking someone is a sane law abiding citizen. COMPLACENCY KILLS. I’m not saying you have to treat people like trash. Someone who does not do our job can not understand. These people wan’t to hurt us.
How many of these people want to go back to prison for 15 years because they violated the terms of their parole by having a gram of coke and a handgun in their car? Answer is none. Solution, kill the cop pulling you over and hope you don’t get caught later. Since I don’t know your profession I don’t have any situations to compare this to. Unlike you my 13 years of experience allows me to know that the absolute single most dangerous thing we do is make a “routine” traffic stop, because no stop is ever routine.
You end your statement with an LOL, but you really are fucking clueless to the dangers of a street cops job. All you know is that you don’t have to deal with the general public where probably 1 out of every 5 people have been arrested and does not want to be arrested again. You give people the benefit of the doubt because you don’t deal with people who don’t see the wrong in what they do.
If I give someone the benefit of the doubt I may lose my life. If you give someone the benefit of the doubt the boss may pat him on the back and give him the closer parking spot instead of you.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Citizens should police themselves and fire all the cops.
Yeah, mob justice is wonderful. [/quote]
That is what we have now anyway. It’s called democracy.
A bunch of idiots get to have a voice and people like drug users get harassed by Johnny Law. What a bunch of stupid bullshit.
I’ll take the security of a well armed “mob” in my neighborhood over a uniformed jackass anyday.
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Sloth wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Citizens should police themselves and fire all the cops.
Yeah, mob justice is wonderful.
That is what we have now anyway. It’s called democracy.
A bunch of idiots get to have a voice and people like drug users get harassed by Johnny Law. What a bunch of stupid bullshit.
I’ll take the security of a well armed “mob” in my neighborhood over a uniformed jackass anyday. [/quote]
Yeah, until that well armed mob accuses you of something you didn’t do and they decide to string you up in your front yard. You are so delusional it is scary, thank god your line of thinking is the minority.
[quote]Inner Hulk wrote:
What I’m wondering about is why are cops so trigger happy when they do draw weapons and fire? Why are cops emptying clips and reloading? Why are they shooting a single individual FOURTEEN times? Do they think they’re taking on Superman?
I’m curious- do they train you guys to avoid mortally wounding someone? Or is it “aim for the chest or head and shoot as many times as possible”?
I’m just saying a cop should be required to take out a knee cap instead of dumping 6 shots into their chest if the suspect is only wielding something like a knife.[/quote]
Because the psychology and physiology of the human being in combat evolved to facilitate you smashing your enemy’s head with a rock until he stopped moving. After a few million years of that type of conditioning/evolution, we have become much more efficient at killing each other, but guess what? The caveman brain is still there.
Can this be overcome? To a large extent, it can. How?
1.Carefully select and retain police officers that show a higher than average ability to manage stress and think quickly while under it.
2.Train like hell using the most modern research to make them more efficient warriors.
Very often, both of these rules are completely ignored. Some in the business even laugh at them.
BTW, we are absolutely NOT trained to not mortally wound someone. That is virtually impossible. The goal is to stop a threat to life. I hear dopes saying “Why didnt you shoot him in the leg?” I won’t even dignify that with further comment.
None of this is new or unique to police work. Ask any of the experienced military personnel that have been in combat. The wrong people get shot all the time. It has gotten better with modern training but there is just a part of the deadly business of going out and trying to deal with chaos and human violence that will sometimes result in a bad result.
[quote]Inner Hulk wrote:
What I’m wondering about is why are cops so trigger happy when they do draw weapons and fire? Why are cops emptying clips and reloading? Why are they shooting a single individual FOURTEEN times? Do they think they’re taking on Superman?
I’m curious- do they train you guys to avoid mortally wounding someone? Or is it “aim for the chest or head and shoot as many times as possible”?
I’m just saying a cop should be required to take out a knee cap instead of dumping 6 shots into their chest if the suspect is only wielding something like a knife.[/quote]
It sounds like you are very ignorant. If you draw down on someone charging at you with the intent of killing or maiming you, you aim for the largest area ie center mass. Yes we are taught aim center mass due to the size of the torso in comparison to the rest of the body parts.
Why don’t I give you a gun and let you put it in a level 3 retention holster on your hip. Then I will start at 25 feet away and run at you with a knife. If you can draw your weapon in time you are only allowed to shoot me in the leg. Guess what 100 out of 100 times I will kill you with the knife before you stop me if you can only shoot at my leg. If the cop shooting misses the leg because it is much smaller than the torso and hits a bystander you would be calling for the cops head also.
Just out of curiosity why do you say ONLY wielding a knife? Can I not be killed by a knife? This obvious miscreant is intent on ending my life, at this point my job is to shoot center mass as many times as it takes to stop him from progressing on me or anyone else.
I tell ya people that complain about cops and our procedures and how evil we are should all wear a sign. This way when we respond to a situation involving you we can relax knowing someone who knows more is already handling the incident and we can take a back up role.
[quote]Inner Hulk wrote:
I’m just saying a cop should be required to take out a knee cap instead of dumping 6 shots into their chest if the suspect is only wielding something like a knife.[/quote]
Whoops. I didnt see that part of your post before I put the line above about the “dopes saying just shoot him in the leg.”
In fairness, I will list reasons off the top of my head why that is a crazy statement:
1.A lot people cant hit a stationary paper target as small as a kneecap with a weapon on a square range. This includes cops.
2.Add low light and fast aggressive movement on the part of the intended target to the above.
3.Compound #1 and # 2 with the effects of combat stress which often results in perceptual distortions(like tunnel vision) and you are lucky to be able to index on something as large as a torso and get your shots off. Most people aren’t aware of perceptual distortions, or discount them, because they have never experienced them to a severe degree(usually takes pretty violent human aggression to trigger them).
All of the above has lead to the conclusion in combative circles that you shoot your threat until it stops its threatening action(usually means shooting at them till they drop).
Don’t discount a knife either. At the right interval, a good size knife is more dangerous than a firearm. One thing I will say however, is there are some smart people always working on ways to stop suspects in intermediate situations(like acting menacing with a knife) without having to kill them.
The problem is that the reality of combative situations is very complex and the average citizen, confused by distorted media portrayals of these circumstances(like movies) and a relatively safe life free of extreme violence, will never be able to get an accurate picture of what goes on. Then we get to be judged by them.
Seems to be a lot of fear of the police here. So, I’m just wondering what the stats are like. Wrongful death shootings of civilians, by other civilians (deliberate or accidental), compared to police numbers.