AAAAAArgh. Typing while distracted with the News. Fornification I meant, not Adultery.
It is in fact a very serious sin. In 1Cor.6:9,10 it is ranked with a number of other sins that are identified as being signs that a person isgoing to hell.
Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth Fornication sinneth against his own body."
-1 Corinthians 6:18
“For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.” - Mark 7:21-23
“Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication,uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and ovetousness,
which is idolatry: For which things’ sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience…” - Colossians 3:5-6
“For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.” - Ephesians 5:5
Webster’s definition of “fornication” is “sexual intercourse between unmarried people.”
Yes the Bible has been translated, etc etc, but that is such a common excuse to live for yourself and not for God; to take out of the Bible what doesnt interupt what you want to do.
Michelle, I also suggest you pick up a book by Josh McDowell, a known biblical scholar, entitled “Evidence That Demands A verdict”. There are no opinions in this book, just facts. most of which are archaelogical. It isnt a casual read but more for the scholar. My point is that based on ancient manuscripts and archaeological references, the Word of God has not changed (contrary to popular belief). The book is fully referenced.
Laura - I regret to inform you that the Bible has changed quite a bit. Please tell me why the Catholics have a different Bible than the other Christians, and what about the other books that were thrown out, and the passages conviently removed from the middle of texts because the Church powers did not like them? The ten commandments refer to sex only in terms of adultry, which is not sex outside of marriage. Sex outside of marriage is fornication, if God meant that he would have SAID that. I’m sure He could have said ‘Thou shall not commit adultry or fornicate’ He didn’t mince words other places I doubt he did here either. Don’t tell me to read and believe every word of my Bible and then change the wording to suit yourself. The Bible has been used to support slavery, book burning, torture and other atrocities… you can interpret it as you’d like that is the right God gave you. You still have avoided my question from earlier though - why did you bring sex up in the first place? (Or are you going to continue to side step me?)
Beg to differ with you Mr. Tolerant, but the reason the story of Lot’s daughter’s incest was included was to teach the importance of male heredity above all else. Hence my statement about the Bible saying that incest is okay sometimes. I, however, obviously agree that it is wrong under any circumstances.
Laura, you used the example of fornication to show that the Bible, an ancient text, pronounces premarital sex as sinful. THEN, and I can’t BELIEVE you did this, you used a twentieth century English dictionary to define what “fornication” is. Do you not see the gaping hole in your reasoning? Yes, I think fornication is a sin. But my definition of fornication is “sex without love”. Using yours, if a homosexual couple goes to Hawaii and gets married, then they’re okay to have sex, right? They’re married! (note-I don’t think that there’s anything wrong with homosexuals having sex in or out of wedlock, I’m just extending Laura’s argument) You quoted Corinthians, Colossians, and Ephesians, and Mark to back up your claim. The first three of those books were written by a man who, by all accounts, spent the first part of his life persecuting, hating, and fearing Christians. Saul/Paul was a man who suffered from an unmentioned sexual dysfunction that is largely responsible for is utter revulsion at all matters feminine and sexual. And as I already mentioned, he was the only apostle NEVER TO HAVE MET JESUS CHRIST FACE TO FACE. Yet, he penned a large portion of the New Testament. Anyone else see the conflict of interest here? Look, you are simultaneously claiming that the Bible is true, and that you can’t “…take out of the Bible what doesnt (sic) interupt (sic) what you want to do,” yet you are doing just that. You are reading, and accepting only the “good stuff” that happens to jibe with your particular worldview. Joey Z. hit it right square on the nose. Lots of things are sanctioned in the Bible that are positively repellent to a person living in the Word. That’s okay! The books aren’t perfect.
I am a Christian in that I follow the teachings of, and accept the divinity of, Jesus Christ. I also realize that the Bible is a flawed book that was written by flawed men and manipulated by a flawed Church. Do some research on the men who wrote, rewrote, and even removed your Holy Scriptures. You may find that you wouldn’t want some of them as neighbors.
Thanks (not!) for prooving my point earlier when talking to Michelle(John 3:17). You are probably both saved, born again Christians. However, BOTH of you are arguing over “the Law”. Jesus came to fullfil the law. You guys arguing over what the Bible says or means is bound to be a stumbling block to Zero and anyone like him who wants answers. Why be gudgemental to each other in front of so many unsaved people? Of course there are differences in the Aramaic and Greek texts compared to what the NIV says. If we did a straight translation we would just about be clueless. But we should all agree,the Bible is God’s word and it will stand up to any scrutiny and last until the end of the age.
To Brider-I’ve read many of your posts and you are always well spoken. Don’t give up on those with questions (as you reminded me) let Him work through you. So many people know way more about the Bible than me, if I didn’t let Him do the talking, I’d be a complete idiot. If we could be of “one accord” as the disciples were in the book of Acts, Zero would be one of us by now.
When you die, the question the Father will ask will be “what did you do with My Son? Believe and receive? or reject? The topic will not be how other so-called believers acted, or how did others mangle the Word of God, or how did your debate with Laura is going, or where do babies go. The question will be YOU. If you get one up on Laura, how does that help YOU? “he that believeth on the Son hath everlasting Life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.” Here’s more John 3:16-17,” For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on Him should not perish (i.e. in hell) but have everlasting life. For God sent His Son not into the world to condemn the world: but that the world through Him might be saved." This will end all posts by QUEST regarding the Way of Life called Christianity.(notice I did not use “religion” on purpose–everyone has religion!! WWJD
The simple fact of this entire ‘debate’ is the only way you can come to know God is to read the Bible and talk to someone you trust about what is in there. When someone gives you an answer, go and look it up and make sure you are not being led astray. Read and think and meditate on the word. God will tell you what you need to know IF you read with an open heart and an open mind. No one can tell you what the Bible means, 10 ‘experts’ in a room together would argue until they keel over and never come to agreement. There are 100’s of books out there written by 100’s of ‘experts’ the only way to Heaven is through God’s son and the only guide to God’s teachings is the Bible. Too many people want to take everything at face value, but there is history, tradition, and a ton of other variables to take into account. I rarely spout out scripture, but here is an excellent verse “Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.” (Acts 17:11) Pick up a bible and read, then ask questions and double check the responses. Always ask ‘Why’, if something doesn’t quite work for you then look deeper and cross reference, the answers are all there.
Sorry folks, the translation to fornification is correct (meaning unmarried sex.) I would be glad to provide a link that points to the original language of the texts and it’s ancient meaning which our modern word, Fornification. Fornification fits. In fact, if you reread the passages it is clear that in a few passages fornification is mentioned alongside the translated words of adultery and homosexuality. Meaning that it is refering to something outside of those two. Specifically, sex outside of marriage. Actually to be completely accurate, sex is the joining of a man to woman and would constitute marriage. The problem comes when the person has moved on to the next sex partner and has now defiled the sanctity of the union he created with the first. It is not debatable. It is very clear. It was clear to the earliest christians as well. If something that is so clearly spelled out is so easily dismissed, why would you believe the biblical scriptures about a historical person called Jesus? And further, that he was the Son of God? As far as christians being judgemental about premarital sex or other “sins”…We can be. Jesus made it clear that we should be careful to discern what is sin. However, we should not presume to judge a persons worth based on personal sin. Unless, of course, the sin harms others (murder). Ultimately, only god will judge the person as an individual. That is how I can believe such things as homosexuality is a sin and be just as kind and empathetic to a gay man or woman.
This ends my participation in this thread. I told myself I was not going to get caught in tangents that might come out of this post. Lonnie you asked a valid question. You did not ask for biblical discussion or atheist vs. agnostic vs. religious debates. So, I would hope the blame wouldn’t fall on you. Mr. Tolerant over and out! P.S. Hope nobody was offended just honest exchange of ideas. Is it not wonderfull we live in a country where we can hold such oppossing view points and not end up with warfare in the streets. God bless America!
All I’m going to say is – well said, Mr. Tolerant.
I think I have a headache 
I also think I know what any Christian should say to someone like me (which is something that Gregblock sorta said): I can’t prove this beyond a reasonable doubt and don’t expect to convince you myself – only God can do that… lets hope He does that for me. Go well, everyone.