[quote]therajraj wrote:
No, it was to discuss god’s morality and why see myself as much moral to god even if it’s just an opinion.[/quote]
All I need to know is that you recognize it as nothing more than an opinion. Just pretend you said it all. I still disagree, having a different opinion. Neither of our opinions are any more good or evil than the other’s. A bit like fighting over favorite colors.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]Oleena wrote:
Would you want to follow a leader(man) who was willing to forgive pedophiles, serial killers, rapists, etc, and do his best to give them a long, happy life, as long as they said he was king, but would put to death anyone who spoke against him being king?[/quote]
Nope. He’s not God.
[/quote]
Thank you. Would you vote for this guy to lead any organization?
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
When the Bible says god commands something, is it accurate?[/quote]
About as accurate as any other work that started as a collection of stories that were passed along orally through multiple generations and the written down, translated, interpreted, translated, reinterpreted and translated, as well as having gone through several committees to determine which stories/accounts to include/keep and which ones to not include.[/quote]
What are you trying to say with this?[/quote]
I apologize if I was not clear. Despite having lived in America for about 10 years, my English is still not perfect which is kind of my point. When translating any text, a lot is lost in the process. Anybody who has become fluent in more than language will tell you that. There is not always a ‘this word in this language is that word in another’ relation. Two people who have the same experience at translating a certain language will likely come up with differing translations, maybe even drastically so. When you add to that the fact the number of times the bible has been translated and that many of the stories in the Bible started as oral traditions, which are notoriously hard to keep accurate, and the committees that were convened in the early days of Christianity that decided what to keep in the biblical canon and what not to keep, it is likely that the version of the Bible most people read today is vastly different from the early teachings of Christianity. I also highly doubt that all of the people who have translated/interpreted and printed bibles over the centuries were above deliberately changing/fabricating passages to suit their needs.
Sloth,
Would you want to follow a God who was willing to forgive pedophiles, serial killers, rapists, etc, and give them eternal life, as long as they kissed His Ass, but would eternally torment anyone that did not?
[quote]ranengin wrote:
Sloth,
Would you want to follow a God who was willing to forgive pedophiles, serial killers, rapists, etc, and give them eternal life, as long as they kissed His Ass, but would eternally torment anyone that did not?[/quote]
I guess that’s one way of putting it.
[quote]ranengin wrote:
Sloth,
Would you want to follow a God who was willing to forgive pedophiles, serial killers, rapists, etc, and give them eternal life, as long as they kissed His Ass, but would eternally torment anyone that did not?[/quote]
Well, no. They have to actually be repentant through and through. Not simply for their own sake, but whole-hardheartedly understand they were wrong, why it was wrong, and repulsed by the idea of doing it again, basically. As for worship, term it what you like. I’m not particularly moved by how atheists view my beliefs, sorry. /shrug.
[quote]Oleena wrote:
[quote]ranengin wrote:
Sloth,
Would you want to follow a God who was willing to forgive pedophiles, serial killers, rapists, etc, and give them eternal life, as long as they kissed His Ass, but would eternally torment anyone that did not?[/quote]
I guess that’s one way of putting it.[/quote]
How many times does this question need to be asked? Do you guys really need to hound him on this when he already gave a clear answer? How does asking the same question over and over again further any discussion?
[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:
How many times does this question need to be asked? Do you guys really need to hound him on this when he already gave a clear answer? How does asking the same question over and over again further any discussion?[/quote]
Thanks for the kindness, but I’m perfectly fine. It’s a faith full of martyrs. I’ve got it easy in comparison.
Christianity and Islam are NOT in any way, shape, or form similar. They are Opposites in every way. Pick up the Koran. Here are some reasons:
1.They deny the incarnation:
“They say, ?God has begotten a son.? God forbid! Self-sufficient is He. His is all that the heavens and the earth contain. Surely for this you have no sanction. Whould you say of God what you know not?”
?Qur?an 10:68
Vs.
“This is my Son, the Beloved, with whom I am well pleased”
-Matthew 3: 13
Muslims worship on Friday, the WORST day for Christians. Christ was crucified on this day.
They are antichrists BY DEFINITION:
?Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist?denying the Father and the Son.?- 1 John 2:22
. Say: ?GOD is One, the Eternal God. He begot none, nor was He begotten. None is equal to Him.?
?Qur?an 112:1-4
“The Prophet (Muhammad) said: There is no prophet between me and him, that is, Jesus. He will descent (sic) (to the earth)? He will break the cross, kill swine, and abolish jizyah. Allah will perish all religions except Islam”
" Revelation 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
Revelation 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
Revelation 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six. (666)"
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]ranengin wrote:
Sloth,
Would you want to follow a God who was willing to forgive pedophiles, serial killers, rapists, etc, and give them eternal life, as long as they kissed His Ass, but would eternally torment anyone that did not?[/quote]
Well, no. They have to actually be repentant through and through. Not simply for their own sake, but whole-hardheartedly understand they were wrong, why it was wrong, and repulsed by the idea of doing it again, basically. As for worship, term it what you like. I’m not particularly moved by how atheists view my beliefs, sorry. /shrug.
[/quote]
Do you think pushharder is going to he’ll then?
He’s clearly not repentant about his habitual adultery.
[quote]ranengin wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]ranengin wrote:
Sloth,
Would you want to follow a God who was willing to forgive pedophiles, serial killers, rapists, etc, and give them eternal life, as long as they kissed His Ass, but would eternally torment anyone that did not?[/quote]
Well, no. They have to actually be repentant through and through. Not simply for their own sake, but whole-hardheartedly understand they were wrong, why it was wrong, and repulsed by the idea of doing it again, basically. As for worship, term it what you like. I’m not particularly moved by how atheists view my beliefs, sorry. /shrug.
[/quote]
Do you think pushharder is going to he’ll then?
He’s clearly not repentant about his habitual adultery. [/quote]
Anyone who goes to hell chooses to go to hell. YOU MUST repent of all sin to attain The Kingdom. If pusharder didn’t repent at death, then of course. Luckily Jesus is so merciful, even those in between life and death still have a chance at repentance. You are an adulterer if you look at a women with lust. Uh oh. Are we all damned? Of course not.
[quote]ranengin wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]ranengin wrote:
Sloth,
Would you want to follow a God who was willing to forgive pedophiles, serial killers, rapists, etc, and give them eternal life, as long as they kissed His Ass, but would eternally torment anyone that did not?[/quote]
Well, no. They have to actually be repentant through and through. Not simply for their own sake, but whole-hardheartedly understand they were wrong, why it was wrong, and repulsed by the idea of doing it again, basically. As for worship, term it what you like. I’m not particularly moved by how atheists view my beliefs, sorry. /shrug.
[/quote]
Do you think pushharder is going to he’ll then?
He’s clearly not repentant about his habitual adultery. [/quote]
I don’t know the fate of any individual. Not even my own. Until the last breath, there is hope and opportunity. Make no mistake, he’s very much aware of my thoughts. We’ve had this discussion, and it didn’t seem to go anywhere. So, now it’s between him and God, while we move on to other topics. I don’t call out individuals for damnation, that isn’t my place. Or, stalk them to repent. He’s a grown man, he’s aware of the arguments, so that’s that. And for his own part he’s taken the same approach, though he thinks I’m wrong.
No one here has ever been asked to repent and convert by me. Not push, not the Therajraj, not Pat (just familiar names, folks). Nor have I ever, ever, called out any individual as being damned.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]ranengin wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]ranengin wrote:
Sloth,
Would you want to follow a God who was willing to forgive pedophiles, serial killers, rapists, etc, and give them eternal life, as long as they kissed His Ass, but would eternally torment anyone that did not?[/quote]
Well, no. They have to actually be repentant through and through. Not simply for their own sake, but whole-hardheartedly understand they were wrong, why it was wrong, and repulsed by the idea of doing it again, basically. As for worship, term it what you like. I’m not particularly moved by how atheists view my beliefs, sorry. /shrug.
[/quote]
Do you think pushharder is going to he’ll then?
He’s clearly not repentant about his habitual adultery. [/quote]
I don’t know the fate of any individual. Not even my own. Until the last breath, there is hope and opportunity. Make no mistake, he’s very much aware of my thoughts. We’ve had this discussion, and it didn’t seem to go anywhere. So, now it’s between him and God, while we move on to other topics. I don’t call out individuals for damnation, that isn’t my place. Or, stalk them to repent. He’s a grown man, he’s aware of the arguments, so that’s that. And for his own part he’s taken the same approach, though he thinks I’m wrong.
No one here has ever been asked to repent and convert by me. Not push, not the Therajraj, not Pat (just familiar names, folks). Nor have I ever, ever, called out any individual as being damned. [/quote]
You are already damned unless you are born from above.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]ranengin wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]ranengin wrote:
Sloth,
Would you want to follow a God who was willing to forgive pedophiles, serial killers, rapists, etc, and give them eternal life, as long as they kissed His Ass, but would eternally torment anyone that did not?[/quote]
Well, no. They have to actually be repentant through and through. Not simply for their own sake, but whole-hardheartedly understand they were wrong, why it was wrong, and repulsed by the idea of doing it again, basically. As for worship, term it what you like. I’m not particularly moved by how atheists view my beliefs, sorry. /shrug.
[/quote]
Do you think pushharder is going to he’ll then?
He’s clearly not repentant about his habitual adultery. [/quote]
I don’t know the fate of any individual. Not even my own. Until the last breath, there is hope and opportunity. Make no mistake, he’s very much aware of my thoughts. We’ve had this discussion, and it didn’t seem to go anywhere. So, now it’s between him and God, while we move on to other topics. I don’t call out individuals for damnation, that isn’t my place. Or, stalk them to repent. He’s a grown man, he’s aware of the arguments, so that’s that. And for his own part he’s taken the same approach, though he thinks I’m wrong.
No one here has ever been asked to repent and convert by me. Not push, not the Therajraj, not Pat (just familiar names, folks). Nor have I ever, ever, called out any individual as being damned. [/quote]
Of course he thinks you’re wrong.
There’s a good chance he would answer YES to the question I asked you.
[quote]ranengin wrote:
Of course he thinks you’re wrong.
There’s a good chance he would answer YES to the question I asked you.
[/quote]
Wouldn’t be any skin off my nose. I don’t take offense to what a Jew, Muslim, fellow Christian, or atheist might think of as my final destination. So long as they don’t vote for Obama…
[quote]therajraj wrote:<<< By definition infinite punishment for a finite crime is unjust.[/quote]One bite of a piece of fruit in defiance of the command of the eternal God was eternal enough to plunge every last child of Adam that would ever be born into everlasting damnation. EVERYBODY, including me, deserves to be damned. God in His unthinkable mercy has provided the payment Himself so that some would be saved. The question isn’t “why does God send people to hell?”. The question is “why does He save ANYBODY?”. He owes everybody the lake of fire, but graciously saves some from their sin having punished it already on the cross of Christ and defeated their death in His resurrection.
You don’t understand. It’s not what the action of any particular sin is that makes it eternal. It’s who it is against. The fruit wasn’t evil and it was just a bite. BUT, it was an attack on the authority of the spotlessly holy, almighty and righteous God. The entire 3rd chapter of the epistle of Paul to the Romans lays out in excruciatingly plain language that there is not one single descendant of Adam EVER that does good in the eyes of God. “no, not one”.
[quote]Sloth wrote:<<< I don’t know the fate of any individual. >>>[/quote]Nor do I. [quote]Sloth wrote:<<< Not even my own. >>>[/quote]Except my own[quote]Sloth wrote:<<< Until the last breath, there is hope and opportunity. >>>[/quote]Indeed there is.
[quote]therajraj wrote:
Remember, Jeffrey Dahmer was saved in prison, there’s a distinct possibility he’s in heaven, American hero Pat Tillman is not.[/quote]
here is what I believe is the passage you are talking about.
A question for whoever wants to take a stab at it? Does this mean on your death bed, after a life of sin, you could just ask God for forgiveness, he’ll grant it and you can dwell in heaven,
or does it mean you actually have to spend some time on earth living like Christ?
The vinyard workers worked for their wage, they didn’t just show up and get paid.
Opinions anyone?
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]ranengin wrote:
Of course he thinks you’re wrong.
There’s a good chance he would answer YES to the question I asked you.
[/quote]
Wouldn’t be any skin off my nose. I don’t take offense to what a Jew, Muslim, fellow Christian, or atheist might think of as my final destination. So long as they don’t vote for Obama…
[/quote]
I’ve got a feeling the American public is going to be shit on no matter who wins the next presidential election.
But that’s a whole other topic.
[quote]Gkhan wrote:<<< A question for whoever wants to take a stab at it? Does this mean on your death bed, after a life of sin, you could just ask God for forgiveness, he’ll grant it and you can dwell in heaven, >>>[/quote]Yes. Salvation is by the electing grace of God in Christ. Christ’s righteousness is what gets people into heaven. Not anything they have done. HOWEVER, if clothed in Christ’s righteousness while left for a time on earth? They WILL war with their sin and strive hungrily for personal holiness.
Charles Manson and Mhatma Ghandi will burn in the same hell unless Manson is led to repentance which could happen. NO sin is more powerful than the blood and resurrection of my glorious Lord. The God I know specializes in saving the most horrifically wretched among us while leaving the self righteous religionists in their sin for all eternity.