Hey guys, i am studying similarities and differences in Christianity and Islam and i cam across this video by a guy called Dr. Zakir Naik i dont know muh about him and frankly im not too bothered lol but can Christian watching this video let me know their take on this.
Thanks
I’m pretty sure that John chapter 16 reference was referring to Paul but, as usual, it’s possible to interpret it any number of ways.
He’s a Salafist extremist financed by Saudi Arabia and banned from entering Canada and UK(that takes a lot.)
'Naik said that he would not criticise bin Laden because he had not met him and did not know him personally. He added that, “If bin Laden is fighting enemies of Islam, I am for him,” and that “If he is terrorizing America - the terrorist, biggest terrorist - I am with him. Every Muslim should be a terrorist.”.
An asset through whom the Wahhabists funnel literally trillions of dollars for ‘projects’ and ‘causes.’
The New York Times May 11, 2011 “During the 1980s, Saudi Arabia spent some $75 billion for the propagation of Wahhabism; funding schools, mosques, and charities throughout the Islamic world, from Pakistan to Afghanistan, Yemen, Algeria and beyond. Not surprisingly, the creation of a transnational political movement (Salafism), boosted by thousands of underground Jihadist Web sites, has blown back into the kingdom. Thus the Wahhabi factory of fanatical ideas remains intact. The Saudi ruling bargain is an old partnership between the al-Saud tribe and the Wahhabi religious sect. The al-Saud clan get to stay in power and, in return, the Wahhabis get to control the country’s religious mores, mosques and education system. The Wahhabis bless the Saudi regime with legitimacy and the regime blesses them with money and a free hand on religion.”
He runs one of the Wahhabists’ propaganda satelite channels with the suitably Orwellian name PeaceTV.
[quote]weby wrote:
Hey guys, i am studying similarities and differences in Christianity and Islam[/quote]
At school? Do you have an essay question? Did they provide some sources - reading material - for your studies? Can you tell us about the sources they provided and what you are required to do? Perhaps I could point in the right direction.
Why can’t guys like this just come out and say they’re Muslims? Any time I may take to debate Islam in these forums is already slated for somebody else. Dr. James White Sermons | SermonAudio
Once again, who cares how bad this guy is? Is anyone, beside myself, going to address any of the Bible verses he brought up?
[quote]Oleena wrote:
I’m pretty sure that John chapter 16 reference was referring to Paul but, as usual, it’s possible to interpret it any number of ways.[/quote]
The Holy Spirit.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]Oleena wrote:
I’m pretty sure that John chapter 16 reference was referring to Paul but, as usual, it’s possible to interpret it any number of ways.[/quote]
The Holy Spirit.[/quote]
That doesn’t make sense because it’s accepted that the Holy Spirit was always present. In addition, the Holy Spirit isn’t referred to as a person, but as a force, which filled every leader and person favored by God. To say “He is going to come to guide you” referred to the Holy Spirit would imply that he wasn’t already present and guiding, which he was, in a different form (Jesus),who was already guiding.
This line, in particular, does not fit the Holy Spirit explanation “for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come”. The Holy spirit is initiative.
7 But I tell you the truth, it is better for you that I go. For if I do not go, the Advocate will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you.
12?I have much more to tell you, but you cannot bear it now.
13* But when he comes, the Spirit of truth, he will guide you to all truth. He will not speak on his own, but he will speak what he hears, and will declare to you the things that are coming.
14He will glorify me, because he will take from what is mine and declare it to you.
15Everything that the Father has is mine; for this reason I told you that he will take from what is mine and declare it to you.
Now Acts 2…
CHAPTER 2
The Coming of the Spirit.
1* When the time for Pentecost was fulfilled, they were all in one place together.a
2And suddenly there came from the sky a noise like a strong driving wind,* and it filled the entire house in which they were.b
3Then there appeared to them tongues as of fire,* which parted and came to rest on each one of them.c
4And they were all filled with the holy Spirit and began to speak in different tongues,* as the Spirit enabled them to proclaim.
…
29My brothers, one can confidently say to you about the patriarch David that he died and was buried, and his tomb is in our midst to this day.
30But since he was a prophet and knew that God had sworn an oath to him that he would set one of his descendants upon his throne,
31he foresaw and spoke of the resurrection of the Messiah, that neither was he abandoned to the netherworld nor did his flesh see corruption.p
32God raised this Jesus; of this we are all witnesses.
33Exalted at the right hand of God, he received the promise of the holy Spirit from the Father and poured it forth, as you (both) see and hear.
34For David did not go up into heaven, but he himself said:
?The Lord said to my Lord, ?Sit at my right hand
35until I make your enemies your footstool.??
36Therefore let the whole house of Israel know for certain that God has made him both Lord and Messiah, this Jesus whom you crucified.?s
37Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and they asked Peter and the other apostles, ?What are we to do, my brothers??t
38Peter [said] to them, ?Repent and be baptized,* every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the holy Spirit.
Pentecost, sort of a big event in Christianity. Hard to miss with even a casual study.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
7 But I tell you the truth, it is better for you that I go. For if I do not go, the Advocate will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you.
12?I have much more to tell you, but you cannot bear it now.
13* But when he comes, the Spirit of truth, he will guide you to all truth. He will not speak on his own, but he will speak what he hears, and will declare to you the things that are coming.
14He will glorify me, because he will take from what is mine and declare it to you.
15Everything that the Father has is mine; for this reason I told you that he will take from what is mine and declare it to you.
Now Acts 2…
CHAPTER 2
The Coming of the Spirit.
1* When the time for Pentecost was fulfilled, they were all in one place together.a
2And suddenly there came from the sky a noise like a strong driving wind,* and it filled the entire house in which they were.b
3Then there appeared to them tongues as of fire,* which parted and came to rest on each one of them.c
4And they were all filled with the holy Spirit and began to speak in different tongues,* as the Spirit enabled them to proclaim.
…
29My brothers, one can confidently say to you about the patriarch David that he died and was buried, and his tomb is in our midst to this day.
30But since he was a prophet and knew that God had sworn an oath to him that he would set one of his descendants upon his throne,
31he foresaw and spoke of the resurrection of the Messiah, that neither was he abandoned to the netherworld nor did his flesh see corruption.p
32God raised this Jesus; of this we are all witnesses.
33Exalted at the right hand of God, he received the promise of the holy Spirit from the Father and poured it forth, as you (both) see and hear.
34For David did not go up into heaven, but he himself said:
?The Lord said to my Lord, ?Sit at my right hand
35until I make your enemies your footstool.??
36Therefore let the whole house of Israel know for certain that God has made him both Lord and Messiah, this Jesus whom you crucified.?s
37Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and they asked Peter and the other apostles, ?What are we to do, my brothers??t
38Peter [said] to them, ?Repent and be baptized,* every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the holy Spirit.
Pentecost, sort of a big event in Christianity. Hard to miss with even a casual study.[/quote]
I get it and I’m still not buying that the original verse was referring to it, for the reasons mentioned above.
John answered them all, ?I baptize you with water. But one more powerful than I will come, the thongs of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire. His winnowing fork is in his hand to clear his threshing floor and to gather the wheat into his barn, but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire? (Luke 3:16-17).
?I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me will come one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not fit to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire. His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor, gathering the wheat into his barn and burning up the chaff with unquenchable fire? (Matthew 3:11-12).
I baptize you with water, but he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit. (Mark 1:8).
As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and lighting on him (Matthew 3:16).
As Jesus was coming up out of the water, he saw heaven being torn open and the Spirit descending on him like a dove (Mark 1:10).
And the Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form like a dove. And a voice came from heaven: ?You are my Son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased? (Luke 3:22).
Then John gave this testimony: ?I saw the Spirit come down from heaven as a dove and remain on him. I would not have known him, except that the one who sent me to baptize with water told me, ?The man on whom you see the Spirit come down and remain is he who will baptize with the Holy Spirit? (John 1:32-33).
Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the desert to be tempted by the devil (Matthew 4:1).
At once the Spirit sent him out into the desert (Mark 1:12).
Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit, returned from the Jordan and was led by the Spirit in the desert (Luke 4:1).
At that time Jesus, full of joy through the Holy Spirit, said, ?I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this was your good pleasure (Luke 10:21).
And, much, much, much, much, much (you get the idea), more.
Those verses you just quoted are referring to Jesus. Jesus is actually the one doing the speaking in reference to someone else in Chapter 16.
[quote]Oleena wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]Oleena wrote:
I’m pretty sure that John chapter 16 reference was referring to Paul but, as usual, it’s possible to interpret it any number of ways.[/quote]
The Holy Spirit.[/quote]
That doesn’t make sense because it’s accepted that the Holy Spirit was always present. In addition, the Holy Spirit isn’t referred to as a person, but as a force, which filled every leader and person favored by God. To say “He is going to come to guide you” referred to the Holy Spirit would imply that he wasn’t already present and guiding, which he was, in a different form (Jesus),who was already guiding.
This line, in particular, does not fit the Holy Spirit explanation “for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come”. The Holy spirit is initiative.[/quote]
The Spirit was always present, it wasn’t always guiding the apostles…Hence, Pentecost.
[quote]Oleena wrote:
Those verses you just quotes are referring to Jesus. Jesus is actually the one doing the speaking in Chapter 16.[/quote]
And he’s speaking of the spirit that will be sent to them, to guide them, upon his death…Pentecost.
[quote]Oleena wrote:
The Holy spirit is initiative.[/quote]
From acts.
33Exalted at the right hand of God, he received the promise of the holy Spirit from the Father and poured it forth, as you (both) see and hear.
The Holy Spirit is sent (poured) forth.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]Oleena wrote:
Those verses you just quotes are referring to Jesus. Jesus is actually the one doing the speaking in Chapter 16.[/quote]
And he’s speaking of the spirit that will be sent to them, to guide them, upon his death…Pentecost.
[/quote]
That’s your interpretation. I am saying that I don’t think it fits, given the nature of the thing he’s talking about (passive, only speaking what’s heard, this thing is supposed to tell them about a future event) “He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come”
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]Oleena wrote:
The Holy spirit is initiative.[/quote]
From acts.
33Exalted at the right hand of God, he received the promise of the holy Spirit from the Father and poured it forth, as you (both) see and hear.
The Holy Spirit is sent (poured) forth.
[/quote]
Once again, a spirit to fill, not a “He to speak what he’s heard”
[quote]Oleena wrote:
This line, in particular, does not fit the Holy Spirit explanation “for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come”. The Holy spirit is initiative.[/quote]
I baptize you with water, but he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit. Mark 1:8
That’s not the Holy Sirit baptizing with the Holy Spirit…
[quote]Oleena wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]Oleena wrote:
The Holy spirit is initiative.[/quote]
From acts.
33Exalted at the right hand of God, he received the promise of the holy Spirit from the Father and poured it forth, as you (both) see and hear.
The Holy Spirit is sent (poured) forth.
[/quote]
Once again, a spirit to fill, not a “He to speak what he’s heard”[/quote]
“…as you see and hear.”
Luke 12:
10?Everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but the one who blasphemes against the holy Spirit will not be forgiven.f 11When they take you before synagogues and before rulers and authorities,g do not worry about how or what your defense will be or about what you are to say. 12For the holy Spirit will teach you at that moment what you should say.?