Hello Chris,
I have some questions for you 
-thanks for the modified farmer walk. How are growing your calves with it ?
-after so much programs tried, which one gave you the best results ?
-what do you think about choosing one for you and challenge you to follow it to the letter ? 
Best,
Mat’
[quote]mat_angus wrote:
-thanks for the modified farmer walk. How are growing your calves with it ?[/quote]
It’s just a variation I use sometimes, it’s certainly not my main calf work, so that’s tough to say. However, over the last year, I believe my calves have responded pretty well to flatfooted work.
Most often, I’ll alternate “regular” standing calf raises on a machine (rise all the way up then drop all the way down, with toes on the block) with flatfoot calf raises (simply standing on the floor instead of the block, still rise all the way up). 1 set of flatfoot, rest, 1 set of “regular”, rest, 1 set of flatfoot, etc. for 4-6 total sets, around 10-15 reps per set. I do still like a full two-count on the peak contraction to keep things honest and prevent shaving the ROM anymore.
Because you can only go as low as the floor (obvious shortened ROM), you can use a heavier weight. The total stimulus is different than if you incorporated that “unnatural” (for lack of a better word) ROM on the negative.
Again, kinda tough to say because part of the momentum comes from switching the training stimulus every 6-12 weeks.
I probably felt the best (on training days and rest days) during Waterbury’s SOB Training plan. Something about the combo of full body sessions and hitting such a diverse rep range kept things fresh.
I felt the worst (lack of motivation, general blahs) during the OVT plan and actually cut it short two weeks. It’s just a monster of a plan that has a lot of work per session with long, draining workouts.
Ha, not sure I’m brave enough (or dumb enough) to let any of you maniacs plan a routine for me. And anyhow, my near and not-so-near training plans are already pretty much setup, if not with a specific plan than with some concrete goals in mind. I’m doing the Mantathlon later today actually, then I’m shooting for something by the end of October, and then I’ve got something in sight for two years down the road.
The Archive program-only thing served its purpose, so I don’t think that kind of training outsourcing is something I really need to revisit any time soon. It took a big part of training off my mind and let me recharge, and gave me some ideas, so now I’m that much more enthused and prepared to get back to figuring it out on my own.
[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:
Mid Term
Martin Rooney’s Mantathlon on August 4 ( Train Like A Man 9 )[/quote]
Total score: 67 @ 221 pounds (late afternoon, food and pre-WO shake in mah belly). I was hoping for a passing grade of at least 65, so I just squeaked by.
Bench Press 220 x 13 (I’ve slacked on bench in the past, so this was a nice surprise.)
Chin-ups BW x 15 (The “one-one-thousand” pause at the bottom sucked. Like, suuuuucked.)
Overhead Press: 110 x 17 (Quick “and-one” count pause at the bottom)
Dips: BW+55 x 8 (I’ve been back to doing non-machine dips for a few months, so, I’m happy. I’m 95% sure I hit good depth on each rep.)
Barbell Curl: 110 x 14 (Again, the “one-one-thousand” pause at the bottom sucked, plus keeping my upper back/tailbone on the support frame of the squat rack. Mwahahaha. I’d been doing some Poundstone curls and I’m pretty sure the conditioning/endurance carried over a good bit.)
I wanted to keep at least two reps in the tank to avoid burning out, but the chins and dips ended up much more of a grind than I expected. I ran the clock down to the wire on the curls too. Unfortunately, I didn’t grab any video because I didn’t want to deal with repositioning the camera or asking for favors between each exercise while also watching the clock. Felt dead last night and this morning, so I’m taking the day pretty much off, then back at it.
Nice performance…and now you’ve got me considering a Mantathlon test sometime in the next few workouts.
[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:
Total score: 67 @ 221 pounds [/quote]
you are the man…you, big man
Mat’
Ha, thanks for the good words, guys. (Sorry I didn’t catch these sooner). It’s definitely a rough test but “fun” in its own way. I’m pretty bummed Rooney never got around to putting out his lower body test.
Anyhow, wanted to mention/rant about something. The other week I got a deal on LivingSocial (like a discount “Groupon”-type site) for this local cardio kickboxing gym. 10 classes for $50 which was definitely reasonable, so I got a pack each for my gal and I. Figured it’d be a decent cardio session to complement the rest of our training. Last night was our second class (we’re just going once a week).
It’s basically a group class with 5-15 people and two instructors. The first 10-15 minutes are the “warm-up” (which I believe is too high intensity for an actual warm-up, but more on that later). Then it’s a bunch of 60-90 second rounds hitting stand-up bags with different punch/kick combos interspersed with bodyweight exercises, then the class wraps up with a basic stretching cooldown. Start to finish, the class is about an hour long.
Like I mentioned at the start of this thread, I have a ton of experience in Kenpo and reached brown belt (one step away from black) before the school closed. My fiancee has similar experience and does have her black belt. I haven’t been in a dojo for years, but I still practice on my own somewhat regularly. I also spent several years teaching cardio kickboxing, so I’m comfortable saying I know my way around punches and kicks and how to train with them, for cardio or otherwise.
However, I try to be a good, open-minded, respectful student/client, so I do what the instructor says. I take some mental notes during class, but that’s all. My gal, similarly, has been training long enough to know relatively-right from relatively-wrong, but again, she’s a good client and does as instructed up to a common sense point.
From a trainer’s perspective, I disagree with a few things about this class. The “warm-up” is basically a 2-minute jog around the studio and then right into an intense circuit of burpees, planks, mountain climbers, bicycle crunches, squats, squat holds, lying leg raises, and more burpees, all done for speed and time.
That approach quickly crosses past “warm-up” and becomes “workout”. They do say to go at your own pace, while also boot camp-style yelling/encouraging to give it your all and not to quit. My abs were ridiculously sore after the first class, probably a combination of inadequate warm-up and simply more direct ab work than I’ve done in a while. I might end up doing a pre-warm-up at the house before the five minute drive to class.
The bag combos, I also have issue with. The punching/kicking techniques they teach are simply awkward, and they use weird angles, funky positions, and stuff that just didn’t flow together. I did get a chuckle when, after class, an instructor suggested I increase to two or more classes a week “because you can really learn better technique by coming more often.” Thanks, but no. If I can’t throw a front kick by now (which I used to teach to 4-year olds), I guess I’ll never know how.
Now, with all that said, I’m still going to keep going back for the next 8 weeks. Why? Because, as the saying goes, a “bad” routine done with full throttle intensity trumps a “good” routine done half-assed. Not that I’d train half-assed, but the point is that you can overcome a lot with simple effort.
It feels good to hit a heavy bag, even if I have to hear technique critiques I find unnecessary. It also feels good to go through a hard 45-minute interval cardio session that I basically wouldn’t do on my own even though I have the exact same equipment in my garage and at the gym I go to.
I guess just consider this a reminder that it’s useful to sometimes step outside the comfort zone and take off the “That’s wrong and I know better” glasses, and simply put yourself through a hard session for the sake of having a hard session. That could be going for a 5-mile run as a random cardio session or it could be lifting with “bad form” to bang out an extra set once in a while. Of course you have to keep sanity and common sense somewhere in the equation, but definitely nudge it out of the way just a little bit.
This was a helluva long rant, but I just wanted to get it off my mind.
I just did my own Mantathlon (this very morning) and really enjoyed it. I’m a bit of a generalist, but that’s a nice measuring stick, and one that I’m going to use that as a progress tracker for myself in the coming weeks because it dovetails pretty nicely with my fitness goals. A few things resonate from your rant:
“However, I try to be a good, open-minded, respectful student/client, so I do what the instructor says. I take some mental notes during class, but that’s all. My gal, similarly, has been training long enough to know relatively-right from relatively-wrong, but again, she’s a good client and does as instructed up to a common sense point.”
A comparable experience: I’ve practiced hot yoga on-and-off for about four years (periods of going 2-3 times a week interspersed with long bouts of “just” running and lifting…then inevitably getting injured and going back to yoga), regularly (2+ classes per week) for about the last year. I usually practice one particular style (Bikram), but sometimes in my travels there is no “Bikram” studio and I end up in a different hot yoga studio. If the class is a bit different than I’m used to, even if I don’t “like” it as much as my usual class, I try to hang in there, get a good sweat, and then my GF and I can bitch about the class afterwards. But in your case…
“That approach quickly crosses past “warm-up” and becomes “workout”. They do say to go at your own pace, while also boot camp-style yelling/encouraging to give it your all and not to quit…The bag combos, I also have issue with. The punching/kicking techniques they teach are simply awkward, and they use weird angles, funky positions, and stuff that just didn’t flow together. I did get a chuckle when, after class, an instructor suggested I increase to two or more classes a week “because you can really learn better technique by coming more often.” Thanks, but no. If I can’t throw a front kick by now (which I used to teach to 4-year olds), I guess I’ll never know how.”
This smacks of those new-age fitness “coaches” that have never really “coached” actual, successful athletes. They string together a bunch of stuff that’s just “hard” without any real method to the madness (Rippetoe’s article about the current state of strength coaches comes to mind). I’ve given some pointers here and there, but I’m never going to pass myself off with the title of “coach” or “instructor” unless I really have such a credential. Sometimes I’ll find myself in a conversation about training and I’ll hear a few parties talking about how P90X is great because it’s hard. Uh, anyone can make up a workout that’s HARD; just do a bunch of stuff with a bunch of weight as hard and as fast as you can. Whether a program is actually getting you stronger or faster, now that’s the real meat and potatoes, right?
“Now, with all that said, I’m still going to keep going back for the next 8 weeks. Why? Because, as the saying goes, a “bad” routine done with full throttle intensity trumps a “good” routine done half-assed. Not that I’d train half-assed, but the point is that you can overcome a lot with simple effort. It feels good to hit a heavy bag, even if I have to hear technique critiques I find unnecessary. It also feels good to go through a hard 45-minute interval cardio session that I basically wouldn’t do on my own even though I have the exact same equipment in my garage and at the gym I go to…I guess just consider this a reminder that it’s useful to sometimes step outside the comfort zone and take off the “That’s wrong and I know better” glasses, and simply put yourself through a hard session for the sake of having a hard session.”
My inner fitness generalist is showing here, but sometimes doing “awkward” things, or things that are not part of our “usual gym routine” or whatever you’d call it, is probably good for us because it taxes us in a different way; and there is something about a group setting or a class that can motivate you in a way that is hard to grind out on your own, no matter how self-motivated one is.
[quote]ActivitiesGuy wrote:
Nice performance…and now you’ve got me considering a Mantathlon test sometime in the next few workouts.[/quote]
I might do this sometime also, but if definitely favors me as a ligher person.
[quote]ActivitiesGuy wrote:
I just did my own Mantathlon (this very morning) and really enjoyed it.[/quote]
Ah, very cool, man. I saw that. Nice work.
Yeah, sometimes the best you can do is whatever you can do. If it’s a one-off or just a short-term thing, there’s usually no problem.
I think that’s definitely part of it, but in the case of this kickboxing class, I think it’s also part of their basic business model. The dude who signed me up said he previously worked construction for years and only started teaching here about two months ago. From some quick Googling, it’s a franchise system that openly states “you don’t need any fitness experience, just hire people who do.” That’s not exactly reassuring.
I do know that in the last class, we spent the entire time in the same stance (meaning the same hand/leg stayed forward) and we threw, without exaggeration, close to 90% of the kicks off the back leg. They might’ve meant it as just a bunch of hardcore combos, and maybe they didn’t want to deal with people working with their non-dominant side, but they still forgot the very basic rule of “whatever you do on one side, do on the other.”
Yep, doing the unusual is always a good way to work on weak points (whether that’s endurance, a certain bodypart, a specific lift, etc.) About the group setting though, I know I’m only 2 classes in, but I’m not really feeling “the community” to be particularly motivating.
The general atmosphere with the music, instructors, and just following along, yep. But I’m not quite getting into the “team spirit” thing. It might be too early or I might not be wired that way when it comes to training. I’ll see about that though.
It’s kinda funny, I did join their Facebook group page and had one of the instructors “friend me”. My FB page openly says I’m an editor for this site, so it’s not like they don’t know who I am or what I do (not trying to say “I’m somebody”, just that it takes all of 3 seconds for them to see where I’m affiliated). Haven’t gotten any comments on that yet.
[quote]Ecchastang wrote:
[quote]ActivitiesGuy wrote:
Nice performance…and now you’ve got me considering a Mantathlon test sometime in the next few workouts.[/quote]
I might do this sometime also, but if definitely favors me as a ligher person. [/quote]
I think it’s worth a shot.
Tim Henriques also put out a challenge a few years ago, Valeria. Bench, dead, pull-ups, and curls. 21 reps of each, using a bodyweight-based weight depending on level (good, very good, or elite), done as “fast” as possible.
Technically more of a full body challenge, with the deadlifts. But doing deads then pull-ups then curls all in a row and all with good volume and decent weight, I expect it to totally thrash your grip, so it’d be interesting.
Staying with Tim Henriques, could you give any more detail on your experience with his 8-week Basic Strength plan? I saw you mentioned it earlier in this thread and I’m starting it tonight so any insight you have would be great.
[quote]Diddy Ryder wrote:
Staying with Tim Henriques, could you give any more detail on your experience with his 8-week Basic Strength plan? I saw you mentioned it earlier in this thread and I’m starting it tonight so any insight you have would be great.[/quote]
In a nutshell: Leg day will suck balls.
Ha, but really, it’s a solid program and wonderfully simple. Back/chest, legs, shoulders/arms. Look at it like that, and it “could” be a bodybuilding program. Actually, bump up the volume on some stuff and it pretty much is. But that’s a sidetrack.
Off-hand (last year’s training log is packed away somewhere and I don’t recall the numbers exactly), it was the first time I really played with board presses in any dedicated and consistent fashion.
A 6"-long three-board is easy to put together with some wood glue and a 2x4. I kept it in my bag, ran to the locker room to grab it when I needed it, and put it back in the locker when I was done. I just laid it on my chest before grabbing the bar, no straps or whatever to hold it in place.
And yeah, the leg day is pretty wicked when you begin, and goes against what’s sometimes a common piece of advice. You’re doing squats and deads and front squats all in one session (plus other stuff). But you adapt and the volume/load are adjusted as you go through the workout and week to week. It does also help that you’re only hitting legs once a week, so there’s ample recovery.
Some sessions or parts of some sessions might seem easy (like the beginning/lighter bench work, or the arm or back training), but follow it as-is, increase the weight and/or volume as he recommends (even for the assistance stuff) and let it run its course. Also, obviously have a very good and honest idea of your current 1RM in the big three since you’re working with percentages of that.
Cheers Chris. I thought leg days looked pretty beastly!
For the board presses, the gym has a foam block that’s about 4" thick so we just used that, but maybe it isn’t quite thick enough going by pics of 3 boards online. I think I may have gone a bit too light but it was my first time using a board as well.
I tested all of my 1RMs this summer so I’m using those numbers. They’ll probably be a bit conservative now but not by much.
The first workout did feel pretty light, but with my training partner we just did “you go, I go” and it felt like a good workout. The toughest part was probably the incline presses.
[quote]Diddy Ryder wrote:
I thought leg days looked pretty beastly![/quote]
I walk to and from the gym because it’s three blocks, usually about 3-5 minutes. After that first leg day, I walked home limping and staggering so bad, I probably looked drunk.
Yeah, a 4" foam block will be about 1.5-2" shorter than a 3-board, so technically it’s closer to a 2-board. If you can’t fill in the last two inches, it’s not a deal-breaker, just do the best with what you’ve got. (That’s what she said). Just be sure to give it a legit pause at the bottom instead of a quick touch and go.
We’ve been cleaning up the basement at the house here and the other day I found some old paperwork from my first training gig in a gym. This was the handout trainers received with instructions on how to train new gym members.
The “orientation” was basically a half-hour gym tour members got when they purchased any membership. The “promo” was a free one-hour training session new members also got. It was supposed to be the trainers chance to “sell” the member on more training sessions. Kind of a “look how great this gym is, you can do all this stuff, or hire me and do even more!”
It was my first training job, literally got it a few weeks after being certified, but I remember finding my feet/voice/confidence within the first few months and soon taking liberties in not exactly prescribing the all-machine generic routine and focused more on basic free weights (more often dumbbells than barbell work, with DBs being more “user-friendly” and adaptable for the average crowd in this gym). And of course any client that purchased sessions got a custom routine and was un-brainwashed from whatever their “promo trainer” had told them.
This was almost 15 years ago, but I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised if something comparable is still issued to trainers in a lot of commercial gyms. Cookie-cutter routines are easy to dispense, and to a client that doesn’t know better, they seem like useful advice. But it all comes back to Good-Better-Best.
It’s good that the person is in the gym doing something. It’s better if they’re following some kind of structured plan. It’s best if that plan is tailored to their needs, abilities, and goals.
[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:
[quote]Diddy Ryder wrote:
I thought leg days looked pretty beastly![/quote]
I walk to and from the gym because it’s three blocks, usually about 3-5 minutes. After that first leg day, I walked home limping and staggering so bad, I probably looked drunk.
Yeah, a 4" foam block will be about 1.5-2" shorter than a 3-board, so technically it’s closer to a 2-board. If you can’t fill in the last two inches, it’s not a deal-breaker, just do the best with what you’ve got. (That’s what she said). Just be sure to give it a legit pause at the bottom instead of a quick touch and go.[/quote]
I’m looking forward to climbing three floors back up to my flat already
There’s also a foam pad to put under your knee when doing mobility work so I’ll put that under the block and that should give it the extra inch or two.
[quote]Diddy Ryder wrote:
I’m looking forward to climbing three floors back up to my flat already :)[/quote]
Geez, at least mine was flat land. Ha, I’m sure you’ll manage.
The workout was tough but not ball-suckingly tough, and I even managed the stairs… but today (2 days later) I’m having to grab the walls for support when I sit on the john lol
You mentioned in another thread about the basics of tricep training, effectively one where the arms are overhead, one where they’re perpendicular, and one where they’re next to you.
Do you have any similar rules of thumbs for biceps training?
[quote]LoRez wrote:
You mentioned in another thread about the basics of tricep training, effectively one where the arms are overhead, one where they’re perpendicular, and one where they’re next to you.
Do you have any similar rules of thumbs for biceps training?[/quote]
On kind of a similar principle, for aesthetic/“pure bodybuilding” purposes, I think it makes sense to include both a “regular” type of curl (arms at sides) and something where the arm is slightly behind the body (incline curl, 1-arm cable curl facing away, drag curl, etc.) to address both heads.
Variations with the arms/elbows in front of the body (like preachers or concentration curls) aren’t what I’d consider “necessary” since they don’t offer huge advantages compared to “regular” types of curls. Especially since pretty much every “regular” curl end up with the elbows in front of the body anyhow, whereas having the elbows behind the torso help to give attention to the long head in particular.
I didn’t get much into it in that other thread ( T - Competitive Bodybuilding - Forums - T Nation for anyone interested), but including some heavy/lower rep work in addition to more moderate work also seems to help growth with both bodyparts.
With tris, it’s as simple as including tri-focused bench work (like close-grip or reverse-grip). With bis, I think heavy barbell curls (with the intelligent use of body english) are kinda under-rated. Even heavy-ish dumbbell curls (again with intentional cheat technique) can be useful. Not talking 1-2RM, but even working in the 4-6 rep range without hitting failure can be solid work.
Also, bis seem to respond better to varied hand positioning moreso than the tris do. Meaning, a pronated curl/reverse curl is very different from a supinated curl, while a pronated pressdown isn’t that different from a supinated pressdown. On that note, I do think it can be useful to tack on reverse or hammer curls right at the end of most “regular” curl sets, to bump up the overall forearm stimulation. Mechanical advantage FTMFW.
So I guess that’d all boil down to: Yes. Try to include an “arms-at-side” curl variation and an “arms-behind-torso” variation, work in a lower rep range and moderate rep range, and include supinated and pronated or neutral hand positions. Might sound overcomplicated, but it’s really more simple than it looks on paper.
