Out of most of the threads I’ve read here it seems the majority of posters prefer test as a base.
After reading quite a lot of steroid profile information from different sources some seem to put other compounds at the top of their lists as a base. Is there a time when any of you would chose a different compound as the base of your cycle?
Care to give examples with reasons for why a certain drug would be chosen?
There are dozens of combinations of drugs that can be used together effectively.
If you just want a list of the possible ways to use a certain drug you are asking a lot out of someone.
The only reason we didn’t always used to use test as a base was because AI’s were not readily available.
Now that they are test is the tried and true of every cycle.
Its not always that it is dosed the highest, merely that it is included in every cycle to maintain normal hormone levels in the body on cycle.
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
Care to give examples with reasons for why a certain drug would be chosen? [/quote]
I wasn’t really looking for or had examples per se but I see something similar to “why use ____ when test does this that or is more effective” quite often on the boards.
Maybe the question is just too broad and it should be more specific such as why use ____ as a base as opposed to test.
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
There are dozens of combinations of drugs that can be used together effectively.
If you just want a list of the possible ways to use a certain drug you are asking a lot out of someone.[/quote]
Exactly which is why it is so confusing to someone reading about it. I think I was looking for an answer more like Westclock gave about it just being tried and true and with the purpose of maintaining normal hormone levels.
[quote]KLisica wrote:
BONEZ217 wrote:
Care to give examples with reasons for why a certain drug would be chosen?
I wasn’t really looking for or had examples per se but I see something similar to “why use ____ when test does this that or is more effective” quite often on the boards.
Maybe the question is just too broad and it should be more specific such as why use ____ as a base as opposed to test.
BONEZ217 wrote:
There are dozens of combinations of drugs that can be used together effectively.
If you just want a list of the possible ways to use a certain drug you are asking a lot out of someone.
Exactly which is why it is so confusing to someone reading about it. I think I was looking for an answer more like Westclock gave about it just being tried and true and with the purpose of maintaining normal hormone levels.
[/quote]
When planning a cycle you should define your goals clearly then choose the drugs that will help you achieve them most effciently (the most efficiently part is important). Certain steroids have synergistic properties when used together. That is one reason why people choose to stack drugs in the first place; another reason being to reduce side effects.
However drugs should not be chosen just because they are popular for a certain reason. For example many people choose winstrol when trying to shed bodyfat but that doesn’t mean that it needs to be used, or is even the best drug for that goal. Since people react differently to certain drugs the trial and error approach is the best way to find out what gives best results for a specific individual.
The base that is chosen, IMO, is based on the goals of the user and his/her knowledge and experience with the compound.
Thanks for the answers fellas. I think the question came to me because I had the misconception that test must be used in a stack.
You can use something else for a base compound if you are also using HCG to keep your own test going but that would prob be the only time I would do it cause i like having a sex drive.
Bill Roberts has used Tren/Dbol/HCG as an example for short cycles where no test is used…I think it really depends on the goals of the user.
Test is cheap, effective, and the sides are fairly well known/easily controlled so most people go with it as the base.
Test only “needs” to be in the cycle because your body can run on other androgens, but you get weird side effects generally from having no test in the system.
Steroids shutdown your natural production, so unless your injecting testosterone, your not going to have any in your system.
If the stack combines classes I and II and estrogen levels are in the normal range, and there’s reasonable CNS stimulant activity from the stack, then the body doesn’t care, so to speak, that there is no testosterone.
The androgen receptor doesn’t know and thus does not “care” if testosterone or another agonist (activator) is binding it.
The reason many have believed testosterone is necessary is because they were comparing to situations with abnomally low estrogen or perhaps poor CNS stimulatory activity.
That said, it is just as you say that in the past, synthetics were very appealing because of problems with testosterone due to excess aromatization, but this is now easily and routinely controlled.
On the mentioned trenbolone/Dianabol/HCG: trenbolone/Dianabol is sufficient to avoid any problem, as methylestradiol from aromatizaton of Dianabol is a perfectly satisfactory substitute for estradiol. HCG is not advised in this situation, unless an aromatase inhibitor is used, as the issue, if enough Dianabol is being used for best anabolic effect, is in the direction of too much estrogen rather than an amount that is too little and thus (if it were so) requiring further boosting with HCG.
[quote]FuriousGeorge wrote:
You can use something else for a base compound if you are also using HCG to keep your own test going but that would prob be the only time I would do it cause i like having a sex drive.
Bill Roberts has used Tren/Dbol/HCG as an example for short cycles where no test is used…I think it really depends on the goals of the user.
Test is cheap, effective, and the sides are fairly well known/easily controlled so most people go with it as the base.
[/quote]
Masteron is fine for a base IMO… Masteron and deca would be lovely IMO.
What, other than providing some estrogen --which can be had in other ways – and some adverse effects of its own, does Deca do for building muscle that Masteron does not?
(Let us assume the case of a person who doesn’t need or doesn’t find benefit to the joints from Deca.)
Is there a basis for saying that if using some given dosage of Masteron, adding so many mg of Deca gives more improvement than adding the same further mg of more Masteron?
Test is naturally occurring as others have already pointed out. It’s best to have test as a base for most cycles, as you will still have higher than normal sexual function, and other physiological functioning associated with testosterone while your natty levels are shutdown.
[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
What, other than providing some estrogen --which can be had in other ways – and some adverse effects of its own, does Deca do for building muscle that Masteron does not?
(Let us assume the case of a person who doesn’t need or doesn’t find benefit to the joints from Deca.)
Is there a basis for saying that if using some given dosage of Masteron, adding so many mg of Deca gives more improvement than adding the same further mg of more Masteron?
[/quote]
I understand what you are saying, in that the body only knows the basics, but deca is a powerful muscle builder for me personally.
Are they both class II steroids?
Brook
Deca is class I and Masteron, I have never done a proper set of stacking experiments (it was a rare compound back when I was doing a lot of that sort of thing) but my impression is it is mostly Class I but with a little bit of Class II mixed in.
So in other words, I believe that the good Deca did you, a comparable amount additional Masteron would have also given that for you, but without nandrolone’s disadvantages.
[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
Deca is class I and Masteron, I have never done a proper set of stacking experiments (it was a rare compound back when I was doing a lot of that sort of thing) but my impression is it is mostly Class I but with a little bit of Class II mixed in.
So in other words, I believe that the good Deca did you, a comparable amount additional Masteron would have also given that for you, but without nandrolone’s disadvantages.[/quote]
Are you saying that masteron and deca are similar enough that they would be interchangable on cycle ?
Say instead of a test deca dbol…you use test mast dbol ??
Or are you simply comparing its usage as a base ?
Not interchangeable in terms of going both directions. Because Deca has adverse side effects Masteron does not.
I don’t think that’s what you meant though.
Taking it that you meant it in the sense of your example, yes, one could replace a test/Deca/Dianabol plan with test/Masteron/Dianabol.
Unless the Deca were there for the specific reason of the person finding a joint benefit from it, I’d consider that an improvement.
[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
Not interchangeable in terms of going both directions. Because Deca has adverse side effects Masteron does not.
I don’t think that’s what you meant though.
Taking it that you meant it in the sense of your example, yes, one could replace a test/Deca/Dianabol plan with test/Masteron/Dianabol.
Unless the Deca were there for the specific reason of the person finding a joint benefit from it, I’d consider that an improvement.[/quote]
I always considered deca to be “stronger”, but thats likely due to the fact that Ive never ran masteron at high doses.
I very much dislike deca’s prolactin tendencies, and the fact that it is noticeably more suppressive than most, requiring it to be dropped sooner in the cycle, and even then slightly slowing recovery.
While I would say that masteron is a more expensive and more rare alternative, the concept is very appealing to me.
Deca seems to dislike me, I drag for a while in the PCT even if I stop running the deca several weeks before my test.
How much masteron would be needed to equal say 400mg of deca; The average amount used in a cycle ?
Would the doses be similar ?
I am all ears (well eyes) too…