[quote]trivium wrote:
Any PR’s yet?[/quote]
Sadly no, weights are moving alot quicker though so I take that as a good sign. I’ve been feeling like I need to pull something heavy so hopefully Tuesday I feel solid enough to do it.
[quote]chobbs wrote:
[quote]PlainPat wrote:
Rows are by far the best overall back movement IMO I’d rather not be strict and load them pretty heavy… every since I started throwing around heavy rows none of my benches have felt “heavy” like they used to in my hands [/quote]
Kinda yates style?[/quote]
Yeah exactly. ROws with 135 wont help anyone bench heavy you need to train them heavier with some body movement. I go Close grip like thumbs on the smooth, put straps on, pick it up, let it slide down my knees and then use my body to pull it up to my belly as well as my lats and make sure my elbows are all the way back. Look up george leeman doing rows, like that
Rows heavy are 100x more useful than light full contractions IMO, you want to be able to handle heavier benches not have pretty lats… so my reasoning is that because a Row is the lowering portion of a bench if you learn to handle a fuckton of weight there, youll be able to handle more weight in a bench so its not so heavy
Week 4 Day 1
BENCH…2:30 rest
Warm up: 135x5, 155x4, 175x3, 185x2, 195x1
Working: 215x1, 5x8 with 190 first 3 sets were all paused last 2 were just tng
Felt decent so I threw on the slingshot and did 225x1, 245x1, 260x1 all paused
30ish degree incline w/ pointers 1" from smooth…2 min rest
135x15
135x10
135x8
Dips…1 min
5x10 w/ BW
Lateral raise…1 min
Rear delts w/ band…30 sec
6x15
Wasn’t feeling good all day today. I have a ton of writing I have to do so I’m not sure if I’ll hit legs tomorrow or Wednesday. Weight post workout in sweatpants was 203.8, it’s usually 206-208 in shorts. If I’m 200 or less I’m eating whatever I want Saturday lol
3x20 w/ 15
For the barbell rows you might try doing a .5-1 second pause at the top and lower the weight under 1-2 seconds. A TON of momentum can be generated at the bottom of the movement from the hamstrings, lower back, and the initial arm pull. Combine that with essentially dropping the weight back to the floor and the back can actually miss out on almost all the stimulation.
The pause and slow eccentric (not accentuated, but slow enough to make sure the back is doing the lowering) really bring the back muscles back into the mix, and after a while you can go back to the slightly less strict form as you learn how to really engage the back on the lift.
Might be a good idea to drop back to like 135 initially just to make sure you are hitting in right. The pause at the top can really limit the weight you’re moving as you try and move up the strength ladder, so you might drop the pause after you really get good at getting the back muscles involved (can consistently get sore there) but keep the slower eccentric.
I’ve dropped basically all my working weights on my back exercises after adopted this style on everything back related (and biceps actually), and my back has only gotten better. Not a hulk myself by any means, but I am improving.
For lighter weights thats fine. But youll never move big weights like that. Basically theres two schools of thought on this that we mostly see. Both stated here by Pat and Lonnie. Pat said look up Leemans rows.a great example…another is chris duffin. Both have huge deadlifts and rows. Both use all the body english they can and row 405-495 for reps …alllllll dayyyy ! From what I can tell both are a hanging version of a row…either bench grip or deadlift grip.neither to the floor…but yet better range of motion than a yates row. They both go below their knees. Double overhand and straps.
This is why I hate rows lol each side has very valid points.
Chobbs said he feels is only in his hamstrings, which to me indicates he is not training his back with the movement and needs to work on that aspect. Im all for doing the row with a little body english and not touching the ground… But only after you know how to use your back.
Once his body learns how to use the back muscles and it becomes automatic and he doesnt have to think “Pause… 1…2…” while he is doing it he can start upping the weight and dropping the pause as I mentioned earlier.
Although its just advice, and you know what the Hodge Twin say about that
[quote]chobbs wrote:
This is why I hate rows lol each side has very valid points.[/quote]
Well, you can say the same thing about benching. And squats. And deads. And…
Really depends on the reason you’re doing them.
Looks like it’s mediocre back development forever
Chins of all sorts(paused at top, bottom, top holds) nail my whole upperback n rear delts.
you just have to decide why youre doing them. Im not sure if making your back look better actually helps your bench or deadlift except if youre gaining a significant amount of muscle, but I know holding heavy ass weight for sets of 12+ reps and rowing it does.
I think the best way to make sure your back is actually involved is no matter how much body language you use, make sure you pull your elbows far back as possible at the top even if you jerk the weight around if youre elbows are back youre more than likely using your lats
My favorites in no particular order are:
Kroc Row (you don’t have to choose size or strength with this one, just pick a heavy dumbbell and go nuts).
Pendlay row (I have been told it has great upper back development and good carryover to deadlifting).
Chest supported row (doesn’t get more strict than this, and a good compromise between rowing movements…a jack of all trades movement for me).
T-Bar row (Great for mid back and to give the other lifts a break. I do them with a sumo style stance and 25 lb plates. Dead stop at bottom with very strict form until the top set).
Pull ups (done with a thumbless wider grip with the Harry Selkow programming. I always feel these in my arm pits the next day. This is where I attribute all of my back width to.)
Deadlift (obvious)
Good morning (obvious)
Power shrug (Ed Coan wrote them in his programming as a main movement for a reason.)
^^^ I would say the chest supported rows might be a great consideration too Chobbs.
That and also face pulls (I do them twice a week). Anything to where you can focus on rotating your shoulders from front to back with scapular retention. Maybe the goal for you is to learn the whole “mind-muscle connection” if ye know what I’m saying.
[quote]Evolv wrote:
^^^ I would say the chest supported rows might be a great consideration too Chobbs.
That and also face pulls (I do them twice a week). Anything to where you can focus on rotating your shoulders from front to back with scapular retention. Maybe the goal for you is to learn the whole “mind-muscle connection” if ye know what I’m saying. [/quote]
Thanks for the suggestions Trivivum but yes my MMC in my back is non existent.
I’ve felt terrible the last 2 days, just your normal head congestion, stuffed up nose, and body fatigue. Sleep has suffered, still gonna try and hit legs tonight.
Week 4 Day 2
Squat
Warmup: 135x5, 155x4, 185x3, 205x2, 225x1
Working: 235x1, 5x5 with 190 in 11:15…time is going down and reps are getting faster
Deadlift
135x5
225x3
5x3 with 275…2:30 rest
315x1 w/ belt
345x1 w/ belt ™…small grinder but I’m glad I worked up to it
SLDL on deficit
4x8 with 135…not a fan of this movement
Pull aparts
3x25
-SS-
Rollouts
3x8
Banded rear delts
3x15
-SS-
Leg raises
3x10
I’m glad I went to the gym today even though I felt like trash. My head congestion and stuffy nose almost disappeared by set 2-3 on the deads. I weighed 204 with clothes on post workout tonight so I’m positive I’ll weigh 200 or less Saturday morning. I’m gonna take a poll, if I weigh 200 or less on Friday/Saturday morning should a) have a shit show day and eat whatever I want and have it set me back a little or b) keep up the diet.
I vote for shit show!!!
im a bad influence
[quote]PlainPat wrote:
I vote for shit show!!!
im a bad influence[/quote]
I want too so bad…pizza, donuts, wings, oreos, chocolate milk, chips and queso <3
[quote]chobbs wrote:
[quote]PlainPat wrote:
I vote for shit show!!!
im a bad influence[/quote]
I want too so bad…pizza, donuts, wings, oreos, chocolate milk, chips and queso <3[/quote]
If anyone saw my diet on the daily theyd be very upset
[quote]chobbs wrote:
[quote]PlainPat wrote:
I vote for shit show!!!
im a bad influence[/quote]
I want too so bad…pizza, donuts, wings, oreos, chocolate milk, chips and queso <3[/quote]
I’m doing the CBL Prep phase for a few days, then I’ll be getting shitty on a large backload after that, so please do this so I can get some ideas lol
Lmao pat what’s a normal day look like?
Spidey, it’s only gonna be for one day 