Chavez: El Presidente for Life

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
41

[quote]gladiatorsteer wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
gladiatorsteer wrote:
if anyone actually took time to read the changes Chavez has proposed you would see that unlimited re-elections is just part of it. the changes that chavez has proposed will decentralize power and give more authority to local governments, they will also focus on rights for indigenous people and people of african decent, Chavez also proposed to shorten the work day to 6 hours, and he also propsed to unify the armed forces.

and dont forget other countries such as australia, germany and england have unlimited re-elections. i guess the only difference between venezuela and these other countries is that venezuela seeks to free itself from u.s. economic imperialism.

please people, get your news from various sources. our lives and the lives of people all over the world depend on it. it is the least we can do. if you have a conscience at all you will seek the truth and not just believe what is presented to you.

(1) Read my post at the top of this page, where it says: ‘He also wants the central government to have greater control over local government and would end the autonomy of Venezuela’s Central Bank _ potentially funneling billions of dollars in foreign reserves into social programs.’

(2) Wake the fuck up!!!

i did read your post and i am arguing against it. in my opinion and in the opinion of a lot of people around the world it is american like you that need to “wake the fuck up”.

here is a link to the article

Wait, wait, wait, so of the various news sources, you are citing that? snicker That makes Fox News look like…well, I can’t think of a credible news source, but you get the drift. Secondly, yes, those other countries do have unlimited reelections, but so did we until King FDR came into power.

You seem to miss the idea that he’s only pushing through limitless reelections so he’ll be able to have mock elections claim that his dictatorial power is legit. Lastly, the world probably does want Americans like me to wake the fuck up. Americans, on the other hand, seem to like not being slaves or subjects, so the only thing I could wake up to is the nightmare the rest of the world lives in.

mike

42

[quote]gladiatorsteer wrote:
lixy wrote:
[/quote]

You two should form a cell.

43

[quote]Mikeyali wrote:
gladiatorsteer wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
gladiatorsteer wrote:
if anyone actually took time to read the changes Chavez has proposed you would see that unlimited re-elections is just part of it. the changes that chavez has proposed will decentralize power and give more authority to local governments, they will also focus on rights for indigenous people and people of african decent, Chavez also proposed to shorten the work day to 6 hours, and he also propsed to unify the armed forces.

and dont forget other countries such as australia, germany and england have unlimited re-elections. i guess the only difference between venezuela and these other countries is that venezuela seeks to free itself from u.s. economic imperialism.

please people, get your news from various sources. our lives and the lives of people all over the world depend on it. it is the least we can do. if you have a conscience at all you will seek the truth and not just believe what is presented to you.

(1) Read my post at the top of this page, where it says: ‘He also wants the central government to have greater control over local government and would end the autonomy of Venezuela’s Central Bank _ potentially funneling billions of dollars in foreign reserves into social programs.’

(2) Wake the fuck up!!!

i did read your post and i am arguing against it. in my opinion and in the opinion of a lot of people around the world it is american like you that need to “wake the fuck up”.

here is a link to the article

Wait, wait, wait, so of the various news sources, you are citing that? snicker That makes Fox News look like…well, I can’t think of a credible news source, but you get the drift. Secondly, yes, those other countries do have unlimited reelections, but so did we until King FDR came into power.

You seem to miss the idea that he’s only pushing through limitless reelections so he’ll be able to have mock elections claim that his dictatorial power is legit. Lastly, the world probably does want Americans like me to wake the fuck up. Americans, on the other hand, seem to like not being slaves or subjects, so the only thing I could wake up to is the nightmare the rest of the world lives in.

mike[/quote]

this is just one source, i welcome you to do a search on your own.

yes the rest of the world and poor communities here are living a nightmare and the U.S. is a big part of that nightmare so i dont see why people shouldnt wake up to it.

mock elections? did you not see what happened here in the U.S. in 2000 and 2004. venezuelan elections were closely monitored even by foreign agencies. if your going to criticize a country why not start with your own.

44

[quote]gladiatorsteer wrote:
Mikeyali wrote:
gladiatorsteer wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
gladiatorsteer wrote:
mock elections? did you not see what happened here in the U.S. in 2000 and 2004. venezuelan elections were closely monitored even by foreign agencies. if your going to criticize a country why not start with your own. [/quote]

We do criticize our own country. And even if we did not, we still have a right to criticize others.

45

[quote]Gkhan wrote:
We do criticize our own country. And even if we did not, we still have a right to criticize others. [/quote]

By now we figured…

46

[quote]lixy wrote:
Gkhan wrote:
We do criticize our own country. And even if we did not, we still have a right to criticize others.

By now we figured…[/quote] that you would give up your freedom of speech.

Sorry lixy, but no matter how much you detest this, we will not give it up.

47

[quote]gladiatorsteer wrote:
…yes the rest of the world and poor communities here are living a nightmare and the U.S. is a big part of that nightmare so i dont see why people shouldnt wake up to it.
… [/quote]

The US and captitalism have been a big part of ending the nightmare of poverty for many, many people around the globe. It amazes me how people blame the very thing that is the biggest help.

48

[quote]lixy wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
Herr Reichsfuhrer Chavez needs to catch a couple of bullets, like…yesterday…

Terrorist![/quote]

Hmmm…wanting a dictator-wannabe to catch a bullet makes me a terrorist…

Celebrating the deaths of American soldiers trying to turn Iraq into a democracy makes you a ‘pacifist’…

uh…okay…

(And don’t give us that BS about ‘Find one post where I celebrate…’ How about: ‘America will never conquer Iraq as long as one Iraqi man is still standing!’ ? There’s one of many.)

49

[quote]gladiatorsteer wrote:
if anyone actually took time to read the changes Chavez has proposed you would see that unlimited re-elections is just part of it. the changes that chavez has proposed will decentralize power and give more authority to local governments, they will also focus on rights for indigenous people and people of african decent, Chavez also proposed to shorten the work day to 6 hours, and he also propsed to unify the armed forces.

and dont forget other countries such as australia, germany and england have unlimited re-elections. i guess the only difference between venezuela and these other countries is that venezuela seeks to free itself from u.s. economic imperialism.

please people, get your news from various sources. our lives and the lives of people all over the world depend on it. it is the least we can do. if you have a conscience at all you will seek the truth and not just believe what is presented to you.[/quote]

You are sadly mistaken. Chavez is a dictator and an asshole. I was there, and I saw with my own to eyes how the cocksucker is laying that country to waste.

I would rejoice if he died. The people of Venezuela, those who cannot get out, are suffering. And people who believe in fairy tales, that he is doing some sort of “good”, enable it.

50

[quote]Gkhan wrote:
gladiatorsteer wrote:
Mikeyali wrote:
gladiatorsteer wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
gladiatorsteer wrote:
mock elections? did you not see what happened here in the U.S. in 2000 and 2004. venezuelan elections were closely monitored even by foreign agencies. if your going to criticize a country why not start with your own.

We do criticize our own country. And even if we did not, we still have a right to criticize others. [/quote]

i think its good that you criticize your country so why stop there, why just criticize it and do nothing about it?

i think people should criticize and organize to change the things they are criticizing. i did not say you dont have a right to criticize other countries, i simply said start with your own.

51

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
gladiatorsteer wrote:
…yes the rest of the world and poor communities here are living a nightmare and the U.S. is a big part of that nightmare so i dont see why people shouldnt wake up to it.
…

The US and captitalism have been a big part of ending the nightmare of poverty for many, many people around the globe. It amazes me how people blame the very thing that is the biggest help.[/quote]

capitalism is what impedes economic independence in thrid world countries and this is what accounts for much of their poverty.

capitalism has benifited a few countries but if you look at the world as whole the majority of the wealth is held by a small percentage of the population. it is a fact that capitalism increases the gap between rich and poor. capitalism is what prohibits a more equal distribution of wealth.

it amazes me how people like you fail to see the big picture. the U.S. power structure has done a good job of enclosing you in this bubble and thus you have no sense of history and no perception of the power struggle between rich and poor, oppressor and oppressed.

52

[quote]pat36 wrote:
gladiatorsteer wrote:
if anyone actually took time to read the changes Chavez has proposed you would see that unlimited re-elections is just part of it. the changes that chavez has proposed will decentralize power and give more authority to local governments, they will also focus on rights for indigenous people and people of african decent, Chavez also proposed to shorten the work day to 6 hours, and he also propsed to unify the armed forces.

and dont forget other countries such as australia, germany and england have unlimited re-elections. i guess the only difference between venezuela and these other countries is that venezuela seeks to free itself from u.s. economic imperialism.

please people, get your news from various sources. our lives and the lives of people all over the world depend on it. it is the least we can do. if you have a conscience at all you will seek the truth and not just believe what is presented to you.

You are sadly mistaken. Chavez is a dictator and an asshole. I was there, and I saw with my own to eyes how the cocksucker is laying that country to waste.

I would rejoice if he died. The people of Venezuela, those who cannot get out, are suffering. And people who believe in fairy tales, that he is doing some sort of “good”, enable it.

[/quote]

i think i am confused or maybe i dont remember correctly. in past conversations you said that you knew people from venezuela not that you were there yourself.

but anyway, if you could provide me with information on how chavez is laying that country to waste i am willing to read it.

what is bad about giving more power to workers, giving control of venezuelan oil to venezuela, raising minimum wage, literacy programs, job education programs, encouraging people to know the constitution and participate in politics, trying to gain economic independence

53

[quote]gladiatorsteer wrote:

You are sadly mistaken. Chavez is a dictator and an asshole. I was there, and I saw with my own to eyes how the cocksucker is laying that country to waste.

I would rejoice if he died. The people of Venezuela, those who cannot get out, are suffering. And people who believe in fairy tales, that he is doing some sort of “good”, enable it.

i think i am confused or maybe i dont remember correctly. in past conversations you said that you knew people from venezuela not that you were there yourself.

but anyway, if you could provide me with information on how chavez is laying that country to waste i am willing to read it.

what is bad about giving more power to workers, giving control of venezuelan oil to venezuela, raising minimum wage, literacy programs, job education programs, encouraging people to know the constitution and participate in politics, trying to gain economic independence[/quote]

Yes, I have been there and at the worst of times. When Chavez was starting his power play. He wants to make Venezuela like the “…happy people of Cuba” poor and destitute. Most of his supports are illegal immigrants from Columbia. He granted them amnesty and gave them hand outs in exchange for their loyalty.

As far as sources, I am not going to hunt any down, I really just don’t feel like putting forth the effort to be honest. Besides, I highly doubt it’d change your opinion.

54

[quote]gladiatorsteer wrote:

capitalism has benifited a few countries but if you look at the world as whole the majority of the wealth is held by a small percentage of the population.
[/quote]

Prove this.

[quote]
it is a fact that capitalism increases the gap between rich and poor. [/quote]

And this.

Show why equal distribution of wealth is desirable.

You might want to start whith why distributive justice is automatically “better” than retributive justice and what consequences each angle has.

55

[quote]gladiatorsteer wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
gladiatorsteer wrote:
…yes the rest of the world and poor communities here are living a nightmare and the U.S. is a big part of that nightmare so i dont see why people shouldnt wake up to it.
…

The US and captitalism have been a big part of ending the nightmare of poverty for many, many people around the globe. It amazes me how people blame the very thing that is the biggest help.

capitalism is what impedes economic independence in thrid world countries and this is what accounts for much of their poverty.

capitalism has benifited a few countries but if you look at the world as whole the majority of the wealth is held by a small percentage of the population. it is a fact that capitalism increases the gap between rich and poor. capitalism is what prohibits a more equal distribution of wealth.

it amazes me how people like you fail to see the big picture. the U.S. power structure has done a good job of enclosing you in this bubble and thus you have no sense of history and no perception of the power struggle between rich and poor, oppressor and oppressed.[/quote]

Do you truly believe that saying something makes it so?

Maybe you need a more authoritative voice, or a British accent. That should make you right.

Lets try an experiment: think to yourself “Everyone knows cow puke is purple.” Did you believe it?

Oh wait, I forgot to include “it is a fact”, where the very act of saying this before spewing some nonsense makes the nonsense true doesn’t it?

Or you know what, how about instead of all this you fall back to what we were all supposed to learn in school, that one should try to use real verifiable facts to back up their arguments.

But what can we expect from a socialist.

56

[quote]orion wrote:
gladiatorsteer wrote:

capitalism has benifited a few countries but if you look at the world as whole the majority of the wealth is held by a small percentage of the population.

Prove this.

it is a fact that capitalism increases the gap between rich and poor.

And this.

capitalism is what prohibits a more equal distribution of wealth.

Show why equal distribution of wealth is desirable.

You might want to start whith why distributive justice is automatically “better” than retributive justice and what consequences each angle has.[/quote]

2 percent of the population hold 50% of the worlds wealth. the bottom half of the population control only 1%

income gap widening

im not saying that the distribution of wealth should be determined by the state. what i am saying is that the workers should be entitled to wealth that they produce which is impossible under capitalism. in todays society the owners of corporations receive an unfair amount of the wealth considering the amount of labor they do. by giving people control of the work places and direct control of the government there would be a more equal distribution of wealth.

57

[quote]holifila wrote:
gladiatorsteer wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
gladiatorsteer wrote:
…yes the rest of the world and poor communities here are living a nightmare and the U.S. is a big part of that nightmare so i dont see why people shouldnt wake up to it.
…

The US and captitalism have been a big part of ending the nightmare of poverty for many, many people around the globe. It amazes me how people blame the very thing that is the biggest help.

capitalism is what impedes economic independence in thrid world countries and this is what accounts for much of their poverty.

capitalism has benifited a few countries but if you look at the world as whole the majority of the wealth is held by a small percentage of the population. it is a fact that capitalism increases the gap between rich and poor. capitalism is what prohibits a more equal distribution of wealth.

it amazes me how people like you fail to see the big picture. the U.S. power structure has done a good job of enclosing you in this bubble and thus you have no sense of history and no perception of the power struggle between rich and poor, oppressor and oppressed.

Do you truly believe that saying something makes it so?

Maybe you need a more authoritative voice, or a British accent. That should make you right.

Lets try an experiment: think to yourself “Everyone knows cow puke is purple.” Did you believe it?

Oh wait, I forgot to include “it is a fact”, where the very act of saying this before spewing some nonsense makes the nonsense true doesn’t it?

Or you know what, how about instead of all this you fall back to what we were all supposed to learn in school, that one should try to use real verifiable facts to back up their arguments.

But what can we expect from a socialist. [/quote]

i did not see one single piece of verifiable fact in your attempt to contradict my argument

58

[quote]gladiatorsteer wrote:

capitalism is what impedes economic independence in thrid world countries and this is what accounts for much of their poverty.

[/quote]

Capitalism means the freedom to own property and the freedom to engage in trade. Do you know what those freedoms imply?

You are equating capitalism with statism. Here, because of a mixed economy, large capitalists are able to buy and wield influence. That is not the fault of capitalism, but rather those who created the mixed economy, to get something for nothing. They established looters-by-law and we WILL eventually pay a huge price for playing along in the looting, but those things are most definitely NOT capitalism.

59

[quote]gladiatorsteer wrote:

im not saying that the distribution of wealth should be determined by the state. what i am saying is that the workers should be entitled to wealth that they produce which is impossible under capitalism. in todays society the owners of corporations receive an unfair amount of the wealth considering the amount of labor they do. by giving people control of the work places and direct control of the government there would be a more equal distribution of wealth.[/quote]

Capitalists are underpaid. Workers are overpaid and exploit capitalists.

Think about it: suppose you were making an iron ingot. With your old forge and your hammer, this takes you several days. Now build that ingot in a modern factory built and organised by capitalists. It takes you a few minutes. Your physical labor (which is reduced to pushing buttons) is magnified many fold.

You then go home to your air conditioned house, with a pool in the back, and cold beer in the fridge. Those things are mostly a gift to you from capitalists, all in exchange for showing up and pushing buttons or actually attempting to use your brain, maybe by teaching or something.

60

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
gladiatorsteer wrote:

capitalism is what impedes economic independence in thrid world countries and this is what accounts for much of their poverty.

Capitalism means the freedom to own property and the freedom to engage in trade. Do you know what those freedoms imply?

You are equating capitalism with statism. Here, because of a mixed economy, large capitalists are able to buy and wield influence. That is not the fault of capitalism, but rather those who created the mixed economy, to get something for nothing. They established looters-by-law and we WILL eventually pay a huge price for playing along in the looting, but those things are most definitely NOT capitalism.
[/quote]

capitalism is the private ownership of the means of production with the end goal being profit. i agree that capitalism is not inherently evil however it does lead to evil. i think that if we look at the problems on this earth such as war, poverty, racism, genocide all of these problems can be traced back to the system of power which has arisen because of capitalism.

capitalism has made profit the bottom line in this society.