Actually the country is not as favorable for Chavez as they may have been, because he is not keeping his promises.
Chavez is an annoying little tyrant. His election was a sham. I don’t care what Jimmy Carter said. (My understanding is that one of his aids said he only certified the election to prevent a civil war.)
But other then that, unless there is evidence he is financing terrorism, then he is just an annoying little person, and his country should deal with him.
People seem to be worried that he wants oil to go to $100 a barrel. But they ignore that Saudi Arabia doesn’t want it that high. They intelligently figured out that having oil too high makes alternatives more attractive, and worth developing. (Ethanol, tar sands, hydrogen, guacamole, etc.) They actually want it just above $60, last I heard.
But OPEC has never had as much control over the price of oil as they would have liked, so how could Chavez exert that much on his own? Quite unlikely, especially since he cannot turn off the oil spigot with the way he is using it to try to gain political power abroad. He is less worried about political power at home now as he has stacked everything in his favor. And once he gets this change in place, he will be the dictator, and then people will find out who he really is.
I say ignore him, and eventually he may go away, with the help of his countrymen. Again as long has he is not a real threat. If he starts building a significant military, then things change. But until then, ignore him.
[quote]The Mage wrote:
Chavez is an annoying little tyrant. His election was a sham. I don’t care what Jimmy Carter said. (My understanding is that one of his aids said he only certified the election to prevent a civil war.)
[/quote]
Carter wasn’t the only one there my friend. They were other international observers including, the European Union, Mercosur, and the Organization of American States. I don’t know about you, but I kinda trust the EU when it says that it was fair. Plus, most opposition candidates accepted the results. Because of all that, in my book, Chavez’s latest election still beats the crap out of what you guys had in 2000.
Not that I’m OK with what Chavez does, just pointing out that his legitimacy is pretty sound. Shit, compared to the elections in Mexico last year, Chavez’s seem clean as a whistle. But it’s all relative…
[quote]lixy wrote:
The Mage wrote:
Chavez is an annoying little tyrant. His election was a sham. I don’t care what Jimmy Carter said. (My understanding is that one of his aids said he only certified the election to prevent a civil war.)
Carter wasn’t the only one there my friend. They were other international observers including, the European Union, Mercosur, and the Organization of American States. I don’t know about you, but I kinda trust the EU when it says that it was fair. [/quote]
Would you trust the Iranian Guards if THEY said it was fair? If not, why not?
What’s the difference between the EU and Iran and its wonderful democracy (as you put it — LOL btw on that one)
All the negative posts I see here regarding Chavez, the vast majority are framed in terms of how he works in the context of U.S. interests.
Uh, he’s the president of Venezuela, not the U.S. His job is to serve Venezuelans, not Americans. I know. I know. Hard to believe, a foreign leader who doesn’t put the U.S. first. Kill him. Now.
I’m sure we’ll try. We always do. But, I’m not so sure this one’s going to be that easy. Too many Venezuelans support him. That’s how Castro’s managed to stay alive as well.
He’s been re-elected with around 60 percent of the vote three times, and the elections have been certified clean. That’s better than our Presidente.
He even peacefully beat back an attempted coup involving the Venezuelan elite and (I certainly suspect) the U.S.
He is doing for his own people, rather than for the few Venezuelan rich or foreign interests such as the U.S. That’s what a leader is supposed to do.
I wish to hell we had leaders who gave a rat’s ass about all Americans rather than just the rich ones and the corporate interests.
"Chavez Foes Rally Against Reform
By FABIOLA SANCHEZ, Associated Press Writer
Thu Aug 16, 6:53 PM
Venezuela’s President Hugo Chavez smiles prior to delivering a …
CARACAS, Venezuela - Opponents of President Hugo Chavez vowed Thursday to block his plans to radically overhaul the constitution, warning the changes would give him unlimited power and cripple democracy in Venezuela.
Some of the more sweeping constitutional reforms proposed by Chavez Wednesday night would extend presidential terms from six to seven years and eliminate current limits on his re-election. He also wants the central government to have greater control over local government and would end the autonomy of Venezuela’s Central Bank _ potentially funneling billions of dollars in foreign reserves into social programs."
This last, taking over the central bank, is his undoing. Hitler tried this when he fired Halmar Schacht.
First the man gets a stranglehold on media outlets, then suggests reforms to increase his own power… all the while claiming to do it for “the Peoples.”
lixy, pookie: he was elected. Twenty years from now, he will look no different than any other dictator. Elected? Just as elected as Saddam. Congratulations on turning your head. If you don’t see a lie, then it doesn’t exist?
I’m more than willing to watch Venezuela reap what it sown. But I won’t bury my head in the sand and refuse to see the truth.
Viva Chavez. “For without darkness, how do we perceive the light?”
Chavez is setting up the situation that will allow him to become a dictator, if he chooses, which is unfortunate. It isn’t the same as becoming a dictator… which apparently is still in the future.
I think a closer correlation would be to Mugabe, in Zimbabwe, than anyone else; certainly Mugabe was initially elected and was a defender of ‘democracy’: now look at him.
The one, major difference is that Venuzuela has oil whereas Zimbabwe was a farming cornucopia (or it was until Mugabe [Dead] White Farmers Zimbabwe’s primary export).
[quote]kroby wrote:
First the man gets a stranglehold on media outlets, then suggests reforms to increase his own power… all the while claiming to do it for “the Peoples.”
lixy, pookie: he was elected. Twenty years from now, he will look no different than any other dictator. Elected? Just as elected as Saddam. Congratulations on turning your head. If you don’t see a lie, then it doesn’t exist?
I’m more than willing to watch Venezuela reap what it sown. But I won’t bury my head in the sand and refuse to see the truth.
Viva Chavez. “For without darkness, how do we perceive the light?”[/quote]
As obvious as it is I am still glad someone said it.
if anyone actually took time to read the changes Chavez has proposed you would see that unlimited re-elections is just part of it. the changes that chavez has proposed will decentralize power and give more authority to local governments, they will also focus on rights for indigenous people and people of african decent, Chavez also proposed to shorten the work day to 6 hours, and he also propsed to unify the armed forces.
and dont forget other countries such as australia, germany and england have unlimited re-elections. i guess the only difference between venezuela and these other countries is that venezuela seeks to free itself from u.s. economic imperialism.
please people, get your news from various sources. our lives and the lives of people all over the world depend on it. it is the least we can do. if you have a conscience at all you will seek the truth and not just believe what is presented to you.
[quote]vroom wrote:
Chavez is setting up the situation that will allow him to become a dictator, if he chooses, which is unfortunate. It isn’t the same as becoming a dictator… which apparently is still in the future.[/quote]
The gunman on the next block has announced his intentions to shoot you. But don’t take action…its apparently in the future.
Oh, El Presidente plans to take his country’s foreign currency reserves and use same to make his peoples’ country an even better paradise. Of course, when the money runs out and when businesses want to engage in foreign trade…oh, well…
Herr Reichsfuhrer Chavez needs to catch a couple of bullets, like…yesterday…
[quote]gladiatorsteer wrote:
if anyone actually took time to read the changes Chavez has proposed you would see that unlimited re-elections is just part of it. the changes that chavez has proposed will decentralize power and give more authority to local governments, they will also focus on rights for indigenous people and people of african decent, Chavez also proposed to shorten the work day to 6 hours, and he also propsed to unify the armed forces.
and dont forget other countries such as australia, germany and england have unlimited re-elections. i guess the only difference between venezuela and these other countries is that venezuela seeks to free itself from u.s. economic imperialism.
please people, get your news from various sources. our lives and the lives of people all over the world depend on it. it is the least we can do. if you have a conscience at all you will seek the truth and not just believe what is presented to you.[/quote]
(1) Read my post at the top of this page, where it says: ‘He also wants the central government to have greater control over local government and would end the autonomy of Venezuela’s Central Bank _ potentially funneling billions of dollars in foreign reserves into social programs.’
[quote]vroom wrote:
Chavez is setting up the situation that will allow him to become a dictator, if he chooses, which is unfortunate. It isn’t the same as becoming a dictator… which apparently is still in the future.[/quote]
I think all leaders at such a level have a bit of the dictators spirit in them.
I’m sure many recall Bush’s quote that was something along the lines of, “Sometimes I wish I were a dictator, it would sure make things easier.”
Having an almost manic sense of confidence in ones leading ability is likely a very good quality for such a tough position but being blind to the need and seeking to abolish checks to government power, especially presidential power, should cause worry to any free person.
I hope the people of that nation realize as much and look past their nationalistic pride in a charismatic leader. Conspiracy may be a lesser charge than a crime itself but it is still a crime.
[quote]gladiatorsteer wrote:
if anyone actually took time to read the changes Chavez has proposed you would see that unlimited re-elections is just part of it. the changes that chavez has proposed will decentralize power and give more authority to local governments, they will also focus on rights for indigenous people and people of african decent, Chavez also proposed to shorten the work day to 6 hours, and he also propsed to unify the armed forces.
and dont forget other countries such as australia, germany and england have unlimited re-elections. i guess the only difference between venezuela and these other countries is that venezuela seeks to free itself from u.s. economic imperialism.
please people, get your news from various sources. our lives and the lives of people all over the world depend on it. it is the least we can do. if you have a conscience at all you will seek the truth and not just believe what is presented to you.[/quote]
Well if this is in fact true that is encouraging. If his changes are not primarily focused on increasing presidential power he may not be the bogeyman after all. A link to your source would be appreciated.
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
gladiatorsteer wrote:
if anyone actually took time to read the changes Chavez has proposed you would see that unlimited re-elections is just part of it. the changes that chavez has proposed will decentralize power and give more authority to local governments, they will also focus on rights for indigenous people and people of african decent, Chavez also proposed to shorten the work day to 6 hours, and he also propsed to unify the armed forces.
and dont forget other countries such as australia, germany and england have unlimited re-elections. i guess the only difference between venezuela and these other countries is that venezuela seeks to free itself from u.s. economic imperialism.
please people, get your news from various sources. our lives and the lives of people all over the world depend on it. it is the least we can do. if you have a conscience at all you will seek the truth and not just believe what is presented to you.
(1) Read my post at the top of this page, where it says: ‘He also wants the central government to have greater control over local government and would end the autonomy of Venezuela’s Central Bank _ potentially funneling billions of dollars in foreign reserves into social programs.’
(2) Wake the fuck up!!!
[/quote]
i did read your post and i am arguing against it. in my opinion and in the opinion of a lot of people around the world it is american like you that need to “wake the fuck up”.
[quote]Heliotrope wrote:
gladiatorsteer wrote:
if anyone actually took time to read the changes Chavez has proposed you would see that unlimited re-elections is just part of it. the changes that chavez has proposed will decentralize power and give more authority to local governments, they will also focus on rights for indigenous people and people of african decent, Chavez also proposed to shorten the work day to 6 hours, and he also propsed to unify the armed forces.
and dont forget other countries such as australia, germany and england have unlimited re-elections. i guess the only difference between venezuela and these other countries is that venezuela seeks to free itself from u.s. economic imperialism.
please people, get your news from various sources. our lives and the lives of people all over the world depend on it. it is the least we can do. if you have a conscience at all you will seek the truth and not just believe what is presented to you.
Well if this is in fact true that is encouraging. If his changes are not primarily focused on increasing presidential power he may not be the bogeyman after all. A link to your source would be appreciated.
[quote]lixy wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
Herr Reichsfuhrer Chavez needs to catch a couple of bullets, like…yesterday…
Terrorist![/quote]
makes sense that headhunter is a terrorist since the U.S. is the biggest harborer of terrorists.
i guess headhunter believes that it is ok for the U.S. to overthrow and assassinate leaders of foreign countries and that is his opinion and he is entitled to it. but remember what malcolm x said “the chickens will come home to roost”