Changing Up My Rest Periods

Training Bodybuilding
1

For about four months now I’ve been using 1:30 min for rest in between sets of compound lifts. My goal has been primarily strength and sure enoguh I have gotten stronger. The thing is, I have this feeling like 1;30 won’t work forever, because changing my workouts every so often usually yields greater results. What should I go to next if my goal is Strength. DOes it really even matter?

I’ve always been confused on rest intervals and I’d like to hear others thoughts on the matter. I know there is a search button on the top of the page but I want fresh answers for one, and I wasnt to be answered directly. Also, does anyoe follow the NASM periodization scheme in which you do a certain amount of time on muscular endurance, then muscular Strength, hypertrophy, etc?

PS. The short rest breaks give me a feeling of intensity due to the elevated heart rate. Does anyone else feel like sweating shouldbe necessary for intensity? (Please don’t bring up leg workouts, because I always have intense leg workouts. I think you have to try NOT to make leg day intense.) I’m talking Chest, shoulders, and arms. I want to leave the gym out of breath from working these muscles. Is that me just being the cardio guy that I am, (tehe) or can this justify a good workout.

2

[quote]Stength4life wrote:
For about four months now I’ve been using 1:30 min for rest in between sets of compound lifts. My goal has been primarily strength and sure enoguh I have gotten stronger. The thing is, I have this feeling like 1;30 won’t work forever, because changing my workouts every so often usually yields greater results. What should I go to next if my goal is Strength. DOes it really even matter?

I’ve always been confused on rest intervals and I’d like to hear others thoughts on the matter. I know there is a search button on the top of the page but I want fresh answers for one, and I wasnt to be answered directly. Also, does anyoe follow the NASM periodization scheme in which you do a certain amount of time on muscular endurance, then muscular Strength, hypertrophy, etc?

PS. The short rest breaks give me a feeling of intensity due to the elevated heart rate. Does anyone else feel like sweating shouldbe necessary for intensity? (Please don’t bring up leg workouts, because I always have intense leg workouts. I think you have to try NOT to make leg day intense.) I’m talking Chest, shoulders, and arms. I want to leave the gym out of breath from working these muscles. Is that me just being the cardio guy that I am, (tehe) or can this justify a good workout.[/quote]

I don’t understand the obsession some have with rest intervals.

Unless you are looking for a metabolic/fat-loss effect, what is the purpose of meticulously planning how much rest you are going to take between sets?

3

rest interval dictates hormonal response… less rest more gh… for strength you want longer rest intervals, allowing you to lift more weight

4

[quote]theranger wrote:
rest interval dictates hormonal response… less rest more gh… for strength you want longer rest intervals, allowing you to lift more weight [/quote]

This helped thank you. To the first responder: it’s not an obsession it’s called being dedicated and caring about what I’m doing in the gym.

5

I have not once met a big bodybuilder who timed his rest between sets and I do not think those folks dedication in the gym can be questioned.

The only circumstances under which timed rests would be beneficial would be, as the former poster pointed out if your goals are along the lines of endurance, fat-loss or simply as an alternative to a regular cardiovascular workout.

For strength and hypertrophy I think you would be better off focusing on lifting as heavy as you possibly can and rest long enough to ensure that you do not sacrifice too many reps on your next set.

Rest intervals would be the very last parameter I would attempt to progress on in a strength/hypertrophy phase. Focus on rep and/or weight progression.

6

I rest until I feel I’ve recovered enough to not intefer with my next work set. This can be 45 seconds between curls to 4 minutes between sets of deads or bench presses.

The only time I see it good to keep short rest periods is when doing circuit training with a goal of fat loss, otherwise short rest periods are not conducive to bodybuilding because you won’t be able to use significantly heavy weight for a decent amount of reps if your not resting long enough.

Anyways, I use my bodies stopwatch rather than a mechanical stopwatch. I started doing this a while ago and have had great sucess

7

[quote]Stength4life wrote:
theranger wrote:
rest interval dictates hormonal response… less rest more gh… for strength you want longer rest intervals, allowing you to lift more weight

This helped thank you. To the first responder: it’s not an obsession it’s called being dedicated and caring about what I’m doing in the gym.[/quote]

Look, try to gather information like this from medical sources. The hormonal response of GH has been shown over and over as minimal.
Even the role of GH as muscle builder is not all that clear.

That being said, yes, its irrelevant to time your rest periods, as , like austin bicep said, your body does not count minutes. When its ready, its ready. I would listen to him, after all with only 18 years of age he has made tremendous progress…
Worry instead about putting more weight in the bar for reps.
By more weight I mean another 45 plate!

8

[quote]Stength4life wrote:
theranger wrote:
rest interval dictates hormonal response… less rest more gh… for strength you want longer rest intervals, allowing you to lift more weight

This helped thank you. To the first responder: it’s not an obsession it’s called being dedicated and caring about what I’m doing in the gym.[/quote]

You should care less about what you do in the gym and more about what results you get from what you do in the gym.

Do you not see that, from a strength-building standpoint, attempting a set before your body is read–just because your notebook tells you to do so–is retarded?

9

[quote]theranger wrote:
rest interval dictates hormonal response… less rest more gh… for strength you want longer rest intervals, allowing you to lift more weight [/quote]

Where do you get the idea that rest intervals DICTATE hormonal response?

Some people should really redirect their energy away from reading articles and apply it to their training.

10

Rest interval has been shown time and again to dictate hormonal response.

Rest interval and reps are inversely correlated i.e. more reps = less rest. The nervous system takes 5-6 times longer to recover so needs more rest, between 3 and 5 mins between sets.

Rest intervals are an important parameter and to say your body doesnt respond to minutes doesnt make sense, would you want your muscles to fully recover working towards a strength endurence protocol, clearly no.

IMO an important variable when training.

11

[quote]smiffy983 wrote:
Rest interval has been shown time and again to dictate hormonal response.

Rest interval and reps are inversely correlated i.e. more reps = less rest. The nervous system takes 5-6 times longer to recover so needs more rest, between 3 and 5 mins between sets.

Rest intervals are an important parameter and to say your body doesnt respond to minutes doesnt make sense, would you want your muscles to fully recover working towards a strength endurence protocol, clearly no…[/quote]

Who is working toward a “strength endurance protocal” or whatever? We are talking about gaining strength. To gain strength, you lift as much as possible. You can’t do this if you are still tired because you only rested for 71 seconds since your last set.

[quote]
IMO an important variable when training.[/quote]

Rest intervals haven’t been shown to dictate anything. While shorter rest periods have been shown to have an effect on GH release, there are a million and twenty five things that DICTATE your hormones.

Do you really believe that human biology is THIS simple?

12

The length of rest is dictated by your goals.

Shorter rest periods will increase lactate which has been shown to increase GH secretion and some believe that this will help to burn more fat. In my experience shorter rest periods do seem to make me leaner although I’m not sure if it’s the increase in GH or the increase in volume associated with decreased rest times. 45 seconds rest between lower and upper body movements is effective at increasing lactate.

For pure strength you would want longer rest periods to let the nervous system to recover to facilate more complete muscle contractions. Some say as much as 5 but this will depend on training age, neural efficiency and present level of strength. I’ve seen people using the shakes as indicator - after a heavy set, people tend to shake and twitch (particularly in the hands). The shaking dissipates in the minutes following the set and once it’s gone, they get under the bar and lift again.

For hypertrophy you would want something in the middle, 60 seconds to 4 minutes. With GVT, you wait about 4 minutes between sets of the same exercise, with tri sets you’ll wait between 90 seconds and 3 minutes. But with all approaches, your goal is a number of reps with a weight (one that is slightly heavier than the last workout).

If you decide to use rest periods as an indicator of progress, you should be able to lift the same weight for the same number of reps with less rest. While it is more common to use the same rest and an increased weight to track progress, the inverse approach has its merits. Keep in mind though, the weight needs to increase if you are to get bigger and stronger, not just work on neural recovery.

13

[quote]Itchy wrote:
smiffy983 wrote:
Rest interval has been shown time and again to dictate hormonal response.

Rest interval and reps are inversely correlated i.e. more reps = less rest. The nervous system takes 5-6 times longer to recover so needs more rest, between 3 and 5 mins between sets.

Rest intervals are an important parameter and to say your body doesnt respond to minutes doesnt make sense, would you want your muscles to fully recover working towards a strength endurence protocol, clearly no…

Who is working toward a “strength endurance protocal” or whatever? We are talking about gaining strength. To gain strength, you lift as much as possible. You can’t do this if you are still tired because you only rested for 71 seconds since your last set.

IMO an important variable when training.

Rest intervals haven’t been shown to dictate anything. While shorter rest periods have been shown to have an effect on GH release, there are a million and twenty five things that DICTATE your hormones.

Do you really believe that human biology is THIS simple?

[/quote]

Prof… when did you change your avatar? :wink:

14

[quote]DJS wrote:
Itchy wrote:
smiffy983 wrote:
Rest interval has been shown time and again to dictate hormonal response.

Rest interval and reps are inversely correlated i.e. more reps = less rest. The nervous system takes 5-6 times longer to recover so needs more rest, between 3 and 5 mins between sets.

Rest intervals are an important parameter and to say your body doesnt respond to minutes doesnt make sense, would you want your muscles to fully recover working towards a strength endurence protocol, clearly no…

Who is working toward a “strength endurance protocal” or whatever? We are talking about gaining strength. To gain strength, you lift as much as possible. You can’t do this if you are still tired because you only rested for 71 seconds since your last set.

IMO an important variable when training.

Rest intervals haven’t been shown to dictate anything. While shorter rest periods have been shown to have an effect on GH release, there are a million and twenty five things that DICTATE your hormones.

Do you really believe that human biology is THIS simple?

Prof… when did you change your avatar? ;)[/quote]

Haha you’re the second person to make that joke.

15

[quote]PatMac wrote:
The length of rest is dictated by your goals.

Shorter rest periods will increase lactate which has been shown to increase GH secretion and some believe that this will help to burn more fat. In my experience shorter rest periods do seem to make me leaner although I’m not sure if it’s the increase in GH or the increase in volume associated with decreased rest times. 45 seconds rest between lower and upper body movements is effective at increasing lactate.

For pure strength you would want longer rest periods to let the nervous system to recover to facilate more complete muscle contractions. Some say as much as 5 but this will depend on training age, neural efficiency and present level of strength. I’ve seen people using the shakes as indicator - after a heavy set, people tend to shake and twitch (particularly in the hands). The shaking dissipates in the minutes following the set and once it’s gone, they get under the bar and lift again.

For hypertrophy you would want something in the middle, 60 seconds to 4 minutes. With GVT, you wait about 4 minutes between sets of the same exercise, with tri sets you’ll wait between 90 seconds and 3 minutes. But with all approaches, your goal is a number of reps with a weight (one that is slightly heavier than the last workout).

If you decide to use rest periods as an indicator of progress, you should be able to lift the same weight for the same number of reps with less rest. While it is more common to use the same rest and an increased weight to track progress, the inverse approach has its merits. Keep in mind though, the weight needs to increase if you are to get bigger and stronger, not just work on neural recovery.[/quote]

In other words, you rest as long as you need to.

Who do you think will make better strength progress–someone whose rest periods are decided by their work output, or someone whose work output is decided by their rest periods?

16

[quote]Itchy wrote:

Who do you think will make better strength progress–someone whose rest periods are decided by their work output, or someone whose work output is decided by their rest periods?

[/quote]

For someone who knows their body, both will be exactly the same. If they’ve been tacking their progress they’ll know how long they need to recover before making their next attempt.

For those who don’t know they body, I believe it would be the first one.

In the real world where people are limited on time, many will have to resort to number 2.

17

[quote]PatMac wrote:
Itchy wrote:

Who do you think will make better strength progress–someone whose rest periods are decided by their work output, or someone whose work output is decided by their rest periods?

For someone who knows their body, both will be exactly the same. If they’ve been tacking their progress they’ll know how long they need to recover before making their next attempt.

For those who don’t know they body, I believe it would be the first one.

In the real world where people are limited on time, many will have to resort to number 2.[/quote]

Your are saying that if someone knows their body, then they will make good progress by letting a predetermined rest period determine how much iron they can move (because that is “option two”)? I disagree.

If someone only gets 8 reps on their top set because they rested exactly 80 seconds (like their logbook told them to) when an extra 30 seconds of rest could have allowed more complete recovery and the ability to crank out 2 more reps, I’d call that training session less than optimal.

Also, someone who “knows their body” wouldn’t need to ask this question on a message board.

And what is this “real world” you’re talking about? Do I or any of the other bodybuilders who have made impressive gains live in a different world that is less real?

I’m starting to see what PX means now.

18

[quote]Itchy wrote:
PatMac wrote:
Your are saying that if someone knows their body, then they will make good progress by letting a predetermined rest period determine how much iron they can move (because that is “option two”)? I disagree.

If someone only gets 8 reps on their top set because they rested exactly 80 seconds (like their logbook told them to) when an extra 30 seconds of rest could have allowed more complete recovery and the ability to crank out 2 more reps, I’d call that training session less than optimal.

Also, someone who “knows their body” wouldn’t need to ask this question on a message board.

And what is this “real world” you’re talking about? Do I or any of the other bodybuilders who have made impressive gains live in a different world that is less real?

I’m starting to see what PX means now.[/quote]

What I am saying is that if someone knows their body they will wait the appropriate length of time before starting the next set. It is predetermined by what their body allows them to do. Good body builders know how long this is because they have spend the time training and have figure out what works for them. People who are new to the sport do not know this and they ask questions looking for guidance.

I’ll ask you, how long do you need to rest between sets? How do you know that your body has recovered sufficiently? Knowing you waited long enough or not long enough is something you know AFTER the set has been completed and not before. I believe this is why the question was posed but I didn’t pose it so I really don’t know. The answer “as long as it takes” while being completely accurate, doesn’t really move someones understanding along that well.

If ones goal is 10 reps and they only got 8 reps I would say that it wasn’t optimal UNLESS something else changed like the weight increased, the rep speed changed, etc… If one of these things changed then one could make a good case that some progress has been made.

The inverse is also true - if you got 10 reps but the rep speed decreases (you decreased the eccentric while maintaining the contentric speed) your performance was less than optimal.

For the record, 10 reps tends not to be what I outline for improving strength, but that’s neither here nor there.

The real world I speak of is one where people do not have all the time in the world to rest between sets. It’s about people having other responsibilities that need to get met which limits the amount of time they have in the gym. I do not disagree that “as long as it takes” is the right amount of time needed between sets, but most people do not know how long it takes and they are looking for guidelines.

The body builders you speak of have spend the time to figure out how long it takes to recover and they wait that long. It’s very simple actually. In their case, they answer both 1 and 2. It seems that we actually agree here to be honest.

You not being PX, please explain to me what he means.

19

[quote]PatMac wrote:
Itchy wrote:
PatMac wrote:
Your are saying that if someone knows their body, then they will make good progress by letting a predetermined rest period determine how much iron they can move (because that is “option two”)? I disagree.

If someone only gets 8 reps on their top set because they rested exactly 80 seconds (like their logbook told them to) when an extra 30 seconds of rest could have allowed more complete recovery and the ability to crank out 2 more reps, I’d call that training session less than optimal.

Also, someone who “knows their body” wouldn’t need to ask this question on a message board.

And what is this “real world” you’re talking about? Do I or any of the other bodybuilders who have made impressive gains live in a different world that is less real?

I’m starting to see what PX means now.

What I am saying is that if someone knows their body they will wait the appropriate length of time before starting the next set. It is predetermined by what their body allows them to do. Good body builders know how long this is because they have spend the time training and have figure out what works for them. People who are new to the sport do not know this and they ask questions looking for guidance.
.[/quote]
This is my point exactly, though. People who are inexperienced are following these precise guidelines about rest periods when they should be worrying about their performance.

What kind of show they put on should determine the rest periods, not the other way around.

I know I’ve recovered sufficiently when I FEEL like I’m ready to give everything to he next set. Is it possible I could misjudged and jump in too soon? Maybe. Could I possibly wait too long and lose the “CNS activation” or whatever mumbo jumbo? Maybe, maybe not. I don’t worry about these things too much. What I do know is that the subjective “as long as it takes” will be much more accurate than some arbitrary number written on a spreadsheet.

I think your point here is that there is more than one way to progress beyond moving more weight, which is true–but complicated programming and exact rest periods and anal TUT techniques are not things a beginner really needs to be concerned with at all. The OP is a beginning lifter, not a high level powerlifter trying to add 50 lbs. to his total in the next 10 months.

Dude, guidelines are great. But that’s what they are:guidelines. They are not set-in-stone, and acting as if they are will only limit your progress. You do not need a goddamn stopwatch with an alarm just to do a few sets of squats.

[quote]
The body builders you speak of have spend the time to figure out how long it takes to recover and they wait that long. It’s very simple actually. In their case, they answer both 1 and 2. It seems that we actually agree here to be honest.[/quote]
Exactly. They rest as long as they NEED to. They do not move from set to set timing their rest periods. I would be surprised if any large bodybuilder did so on a regular basis.

[quote]
You not being PX, please explain to me what he means.[/quote]

This is in reference to this “real world” that some of you live in. We all live in the same place.

20

[quote]Itchy wrote:
PatMac wrote:
Itchy wrote:
PatMac wrote:
Your are saying that if someone knows their body, then they will make good progress by letting a predetermined rest period determine how much iron they can move (because that is “option two”)? I disagree.

If someone only gets 8 reps on their top set because they rested exactly 80 seconds (like their logbook told them to) when an extra 30 seconds of rest could have allowed more complete recovery and the ability to crank out 2 more reps, I’d call that training session less than optimal.

Also, someone who “knows their body” wouldn’t need to ask this question on a message board.

And what is this “real world” you’re talking about? Do I or any of the other bodybuilders who have made impressive gains live in a different world that is less real?

I’m starting to see what PX means now.

What I am saying is that if someone knows their body they will wait the appropriate length of time before starting the next set. It is predetermined by what their body allows them to do. Good body builders know how long this is because they have spend the time training and have figure out what works for them. People who are new to the sport do not know this and they ask questions looking for guidance.
.
This is my point exactly, though. People who are inexperienced are following these precise guidelines about rest periods when they should be worrying about their performance.

What kind of show they put on should determine the rest periods, not the other way around.

I’ll ask you, how long do you need to rest between sets? How do you know that your body has recovered sufficiently?

I know I’ve recovered sufficiently when I FEEL like I’m ready to give everything to he next set. Is it possible I could misjudged and jump in too soon? Maybe. Could I possibly wait too long and lose the “CNS activation” or whatever mumbo jumbo? Maybe, maybe not. I don’t worry about these things too much. What I do know is that the subjective “as long as it takes” will be much more accurate than some arbitrary number written on a spreadsheet.

Knowing you waited long enough or not long enough is something you know AFTER the set has been completed and not before. I believe this is why the question was posed but I didn’t pose it so I really don’t know. The answer “as long as it takes” while being completely accurate, doesn’t really move someones understanding along that well.

If ones goal is 10 reps and they only got 8 reps I would say that it wasn’t optimal UNLESS something else changed like the weight increased, the rep speed changed, etc… If one of these things changed then one could make a good case that some progress has been made.

The inverse is also true - if you got 10 reps but the rep speed decreases (you decreased the eccentric while maintaining the contentric speed) your performance was less than optimal.

I think your point here is that there is more than one way to progress beyond moving more weight, which is true–but complicated programming and exact rest periods and anal TUT techniques are not things a beginner really needs to be concerned with at all. The OP is a beginning lifter, not a high level powerlifter trying to add 50 lbs. to his total in the next 10 months.

For the record, 10 reps tends not to be what I outline for improving strength, but that’s neither here nor there.

The real world I speak of is one where people do not have all the time in the world to rest between sets. It’s about people having other responsibilities that need to get met which limits the amount of time they have in the gym. I do not disagree that “as long as it takes” is the right amount of time needed between sets, but most people do not know how long it takes and they are looking for guidelines.

Dude, guidelines are great. But that’s what they are:guidelines. They are not set-in-stone, and acting as if they are will only limit your progress. You do not need a goddamn stopwatch with an alarm just to do a few sets of squats.

The body builders you speak of have spend the time to figure out how long it takes to recover and they wait that long. It’s very simple actually. In their case, they answer both 1 and 2. It seems that we actually agree here to be honest.
Exactly. They rest as long as they NEED to. They do not move from set to set timing their rest periods. I would be surprised if any large bodybuilder did so on a regular basis.

You not being PX, please explain to me what he means.

This is in reference to this “real world” that some of you live in. We all live in the same place.

[/quote]
This is a good reply, thank you!

I would be more inclined to rely on arbitrary guidelines for beginners vs. experienced people (Olifters, and other strength athletes notwithstanding) because beginners need to try a bunch of different things before they figure out what works. I’ve seen many people doing the same thing workout after workout with little or no change in their bodies.

I also see huge guys doing the same thing day after day and they keep growing.

The difference is the big guys have figured out what works and in my experience with them, they know because they tried different things.

A 180 second rest period is arbitrary, it’s very different from 90 seconds. Is it ideal? Yes, for some people for some of the time but by in large, it isn’t optimal for most. Some will thrive on 195 others on 229, etc… You have to try lots of different things to find what works. I have a strong suspicion that your workouts have changed as you have become more experienced and are now able to go on feeling.

I honestly believe that very few beginners are aware of their bodies enough to make the call that they are ready to lift 225 for 3 reps.

The common thing each of the people saying that timing rest intervals isn’t worth it was that they go on feeling; at least thats what I take out of their words. Anyone who is new to the game won’t know what they are feeling for so I suggest timing rest so they get the experience then need to become aware of their bodies.

Thanks again for the reply!