[quote]veruvius wrote:
Professor X wrote:
lucasa wrote:
rainjack wrote:
Maybe a t-shirt that says “Functional Strength is for Pussies”
Shouldn’t your training speak for itself?
No, your RESULTS and your physique speak the loudest. I could care less if some 130lbs kid can deadlift “twice his body weight”. Unfortunately, that actually seems to be a goal, avoiding all muscle size and trying to be as small as possible with “relative strength”.
Well RESULTS can be your physique or your numbers, depending on what you want. I can only speak for myself, but while I am trying to get bigger, all I have right now is “relative strength.” I’ve always been “stronger than I look” because I’m skinny. I’m a little bigger now, but much stronger, partly because I never realized how much I need to eat. Therefore while I’m unhappy with my size, I take solace in dropping jaws when I pick up the biggest dumbbells in the gym. I think most of those kids don’t try to “be as small as possible,” they just aren’t growing. Would you be impressed with someone who could deadlift 3x their weight?[/quote]
No, I am not impressed with the skinny guy who thinks he is using the “biggest dumbbells in the gym”. Generally this only implies you either train around a lot of really weak people or your gym has a relatively small range of dumbbells. How much do you weigh? We have 180lbs dumbbells at my gym. You are using these? For what exercise, may I ask? Curls? The second I run into Superman weighing 130lbs, I will let you know. I have yet to be impressed by someone who is truly that small to any degree worth worrying about.
Again, I could care less about your “relative strength” if it is “absolutely weaker” than what most consider to be a powerful weight. I have never even heard this term used to this degree as it is lately. I suppose it makes people who aren’t making physical progress feel better for the lack of it…or else everyone is powerlifting in a specific weight class…which I highly doubt is the case.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
No, I am not impressed with the skinny guy who thinks he is using the “biggest dumbbells in the gym”. Generally this only implies you either train around a lot of really weak people or your gym has a relatively small range of dumbbells. How much do you weigh? We have 180lbs dumbbells at my gym. You are using these? For what exercise, may I ask? Curls? The second I run into Superman weighing 130lbs, I will let you know. I have yet to be impressed by someone who is truly that small to any degree worth worrying about.
Again, I could care less about your “relative strength” if it is “absolutely weaker” than what most consider to be a powerful weight. I have never even heard this term used to this degree as it is lately. I suppose it makes people who aren’t making physical progress feel better for the lack of it…or else everyone is powerlifting in a specific weight class…which I highly doubt is the case.[/quote]
Wow. I didn’t ask your opinion on my lifting ability, but thanks anyway. “I suppose it makes people who aren’t making physical progress feel better for the lack of it…” That’s exactly what I said, but it seems you wanted to make that point on your own. Fair enough. I guess Naim Suleymanoglu isn’t anything worth worrying about because he isn’t the absolute strongest guy around. I thought he’s impressive, but clearly, we are not the same person.
[quote]veruvius wrote:
Professor X wrote:
No, I am not impressed with the skinny guy who thinks he is using the “biggest dumbbells in the gym”. Generally this only implies you either train around a lot of really weak people or your gym has a relatively small range of dumbbells. How much do you weigh? We have 180lbs dumbbells at my gym. You are using these? For what exercise, may I ask? Curls? The second I run into Superman weighing 130lbs, I will let you know. I have yet to be impressed by someone who is truly that small to any degree worth worrying about.
Again, I could care less about your “relative strength” if it is “absolutely weaker” than what most consider to be a powerful weight. I have never even heard this term used to this degree as it is lately. I suppose it makes people who aren’t making physical progress feel better for the lack of it…or else everyone is powerlifting in a specific weight class…which I highly doubt is the case.
Wow. I didn’t ask your opinion on my lifting ability, but thanks anyway. “I suppose it makes people who aren’t making physical progress feel better for the lack of it…” That’s exactly what I said, but it seems you wanted to make that point on your own. Fair enough. I guess Naim Suleymanoglu isn’t anything worth worrying about because he isn’t the absolute strongest guy around. I thought he’s impressive, but clearly, we are not the same person.[/quote]
Naim Suleymanoglu was 4’11". His center of gravity was nearly equal to that of my knees. Interesting? Very. 3 gold medals is nothing to laugh at. A goal to strive for? Uh, I guess if you are also 4’11". Are you saying you are anywhere near as “relative strong” as Naim Suleymanoglu? I mean, you brought it up so what are some of your lifts and stats? You went and found the one anomaly to prove a point about skinny people in the gym? Most of them are “relatively strong”?
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Naim Suleymanoglu was 4’11". His center of gravity was nearly equal to that of my knees. Interesting? Very. 3 gold medals is nothing to laugh at. A goal to strive for? Uh, I guess if you are also 4’11". Are you saying you are anywhere near as “relative strong” as Naim Suleymanoglu? I mean, you brought it up so what are some of your lifts and stats? You went and found the one anomaly to prove a point about skinny people in the gym? Most of them are “relatively strong”?[/quote]
It’s my fault, really. I was about to edit that post to take out that last part, because I knew what kind of answer I would get. The only thing I wanted to ask with my first post was if you thought any relative strength ratio was respectable, but you responded you think absolute strength is more important to you. Also, I can be happy about getting stronger if I’m not getting bigger. I clearly said I brought up Naim because I thought he was impressive. In fact, I was floored when I heard about him. I’m not sure why you have to be so aggressive about everything.
Aww, why not shorty? Hahahaha, (just bustin on ya.)[/quote]
No worries, I’m pretty secure with my manhood and I was just talking about functional training. YOU were the one that read the phrase and thought penis size.
Or should I have gone with the “Your mom/wife/girlfreind/sister doesn’t seem to have a problem with it.” comeback?
Aww, why not shorty? Hahahaha, (just bustin on ya.)
No worries, I’m pretty secure with my manhood and I was just talking about functional training. YOU were the one that read the phrase and thought penis size.
Or should I have gone with the “Your mom/wife/girlfreind/sister doesn’t seem to have a problem with it.” comeback?[/quote]
Something witty like that would have been funny. You have to understand, I’m a professional smartass.
has anyone considered the myth that bodybuilder’s as ‘not strong’ as a result of the functionless hypertrophy of muscle that some bb programs have, such as HST. Some programs don’t directly related to increased strength through protein degradation, but induce hypertrophy in the non-contractile elements, which for longterm functionality AND growth, is necessary.
Personally, my training (pl, ol, and some isolateral MMAish moves for good measure) has nothing to do with looking good nekkid or to get bigger. However i do understand that getting bigger side effect of the main goal of increasing strength. I’m still surprised much of this is going on, as i thought the common bit of advice ‘to get bigger get stronger; to get stronger get bigger’ was rather ubquitous. I am disappointed in myself that i have not gained as much strength as i thought appropriate to my lean mass increase (~40lbs) and i will be the 1st to admit i am ‘relatively’ (ha to that word) weak for my size, since i now live in nothing but sweat pants (out grew all designer clothes)but still can’t hit a 1.5x bw ATG back squat.
-k
The way I see it, high relative strength is ridiculously important to most athletic endeavours.
Success in agility, speed, and even endurance type activities is highly dependent on the athlete’s sustainable power-to-bodyweight ratio throughout the duration of the movement, be it a 1/2 second change in direction, a 100m sprint, or a 40km cycling time trial.
The prerequisite to a high power-to-bodyweight ratio is a high strength-to-bodyweight ratio.
Now, if anyone were to imply that those whose goals are increases in relative strength are unworthy of T-Nationhood, I think men like Ramon Dekker would disagree:
[quote]AlbertaBeef wrote:
The way I see it, high relative strength is ridiculously important to most athletic endeavours.
Success in agility, speed, and even endurance type activities is highly dependent on the athlete’s sustainable power-to-bodyweight ratio throughout the duration of the movement, be it a 1/2 second change in direction, a 100m sprint, or a 40km cycling time trial.
The prerequisite to a high power-to-bodyweight ratio is a high strength-to-bodyweight ratio.
Now, if anyone were to imply that those whose goals are increases in relative strength are unworthy of T-Nationhood, I think men like Ramon Dekker would disagree:
If “relative strength” was simply used as a term to describe goals in specific sports or overall performance and not used as an attempt to act as if larger bodybuilders are not strong and therefore should not be a goal, no one would have a problem with it. Its current “overusage” has expanded beyond simply describing specific sports training and is being used more and more by skinny guys in the gym who don’t eat enough to explain away their lack of overall progress. Surely this didn’t need to explained to you, right?
I always thought looks was a byproduct of training to be healthy and improve athletic performance…if done right (training for performance) you really can’t have one without the other…
[/quote]
I agree 100%. Train for function and form will follow. Our bodies are programmed for function. Our bodies don’t want to get bigger unless they have to in order to perform the functions we train it for i.e. lifting heavy ass weights!
[quote]AlbertaBeef wrote:
The way I see it, high relative strength is ridiculously important to most athletic endeavours.
Success in agility, speed, and even endurance type activities is highly dependent on the athlete’s sustainable power-to-bodyweight ratio throughout the duration of the movement, be it a 1/2 second change in direction, a 100m sprint, or a 40km cycling time trial.
The prerequisite to a high power-to-bodyweight ratio is a high strength-to-bodyweight ratio.
Now, if anyone were to imply that those whose goals are increases in relative strength are unworthy of T-Nationhood, I think men like Ramon Dekker would disagree:
If “relative strength” was simply used as a term to describe goals in specific sports or overall performance and not used as an attempt to act as if larger bodybuilders are not strong and therefore should not be a goal, no one would have a problem with it. Its current “overusage” has expanded beyond simply describing specific sports training and is being used more and more by skinny guys in the gym who don’t eat enough to explain away their lack of overall progress. Surely this didn’t need to explained to you, right?[/quote]
Why do you always relate hypertrophy with progress?? If that were true, Weider wouldn’t have prohibited Ahhnold from competing in the WSM, after Lou and Franco got their asses handed to them in '77 by a 43 year old RETIRED o-lifter. Modern era bodybuilders are even less athletic no matter how you define it. In the words of Enzo Ferrari " Feruccio makes pretty autos, but mine are made to win. In that lies their beauty".
[quote]
he’s doesn’t train to be strong…he trains to kick ass…[/quote]
That’s exactly it - athletes in sports outside of bodybuilding need to develop strength and conditioning - for instance, about 5 years ago, I was very into body-building, and ‘lookin good nekkid’…but when I went to play hoops with my buddies, sure I looked great with the shirt off, but I wasn’t able to jump very high with the 35 pounds of muscle I’d added…
I like to participate in a wide variety of sports - I realized that training to be a body-builder had adverse effects on my abilities on the court, and even in softball, raquetball, football, and just about every other sport I tried to play.
Therefore, I try to balance my workouts to give more diversity - it’s true, the body-builder ‘ripped’ look is gone, but I’m more nimble, and my endurance is better.
And I still ‘look good nekkid’…I guess you can have your cake and eat it too.
If “relative strength” was simply used as a term to describe goals in specific sports or overall performance and not used as an attempt to act as if larger bodybuilders are not strong and therefore should not be a goal, no one would have a problem with it. Its current “overusage” has expanded beyond simply describing specific sports training and is being used more and more by skinny guys in the gym who don’t eat enough to explain away their lack of overall progress. Surely this didn’t need to explained to you, right?
Why do you always relate hypertrophy with progress?? If that were true, Weider wouldn’t have prohibited Ahhnold from competing in the WSM, after Lou and Franco got their asses handed to them in '77 by a 43 year old RETIRED o-lifter. Modern era bodybuilders are even less athletic no matter how you define it. In the words of Enzo Ferrari " Feruccio makes pretty autos, but mine are made to win. In that lies their beauty".
[/quote]
I don’t just relate hypertrophy with progress. I am asking where all of the “absolutely strong” people are who avoid worrying about size. I mean, if strength gains are so overwhemingly being acheived by those working on “functional strength”, I would expect a shit load of people with 400+lbs bench presses and near 500lbs squats who somehow do this without gaining anywhere near as much muscle as bodybuilders.
Have you ever asked where all of these people are? I am not talking about picking out one or two people who compete in the Olympics. I am talking about you and the people on this forum who think like that.
