Chad Waterbury and How I Failed

Training Bodybuilding
141

I saw the first post of this topic thread and I couldn’t help but empathize with this guy’s story. I, too, in my early 20s literally destroyed what could have been years of useful training time. I got caught up with following programs by Ian King, Charles Poliquin, Don Alessi, and the like. People in my hardcore gym also thought I was fucking nuts! Many of them actually would come up to me and say “what happened to you? You used to be big!” I had a journal (I still keep one to this day though), a stop watch, and was trying to hog two pieces of equipment at all times. Training was a nightmare!

I cannot tell you how many guys I know, some of whom have written for this website, state that their training went to the shitter when following some of these ridiculous routines! To think about how much I love bodybuilding and the fact that I dumped SOOO much time into these routines actually makes me feel like a fucking moron at times! I could probably be 15 lbs as I speak and a lot stronger. Come to think of it, the best book I ever read when starting out was Arnold’s. I trained 5 days per week with some bodypart routine I threw together and grew like a weed.

It was only when I tried these crazy routines in my 20s that everything went to the shitter. Now, I am 28 and in great shape and happy with the way things are going.

I do think these authors are to be blamed to a degree. They know that 1000s of people read their stuff and a good amount are going to follow their advice. So when their advice leads to years of wasted training investment, it is in part their fault. Lyle McDonald and Mel Siff’s supertraining listserv actually said authors should be blamed for fucking up people’s training, fucking up their time!

142

The same goes for nutrition. People come out with these outrageously complicated diets which are probably useful AT TIMES. But to think that regular people or even competitive people are going to follow the nuttiest nutrition schedules is ridiculous.

My friend and I have had ongoing jokes while eating stuff: “I am comitting anti-Poliquinism”. I have heard this guy talk about the most outrageous shit concerning nutrition and some guy on the Siff Listserv who was a gastroenterologist tore some of Poliquin’s nutritional beliefs apart. Talk of Vitamin C therapy. Talk of restoring hypogonadal males with nutrition protocols and not hormone replacement therapy. Talk of whites not being good with carbs.

Some of these authors are out of control. Scott Abel, when he came out with an article and an interview on Anabolic Extreme, my nerves were frayed by the end of reading them. Years later, aftering becoming a dietitian and near done with a masters in nutrition, his articles still make no sense to me! His articles seemed and still seem like they are in out fucking space! Check his innervation training articles from Muscle Mag and AE. I am rambling now, but I literally have had training years destroyed! Money, time, effort down the trashbin of history!

I once even experimented with AC’s Afterburn routine even after doing my own thing because I was curious to see if it works. I followed one workout, came home, and literally barfed my guts out! I was sick the next day and had to call in to work. Once, when I was 20 years old, I was trying to hog two pieces of equipment and using my stop watch while following a Poliquin routine. People at my gym thought I was nuts.

One even wanted to beat the shit out of me, told my friend that I looked like a fuckin nutjob and that I thought I was hot shit with my stop watch and journal and frantic pacing around the gym! I once followed Bill Phillip’s advice on how to get lean from one of the old Muscle Media issues. I literally withered away into nothing! I once followed HST by Bryan Haycock and wouind up with the dumbest looking physique. My quads were enormous, my glutes and hams got smaller, I developed awful posture, and had a huge muscle imbalance.

My physique was totally off and silly looking. My lower body dwarfed my upper body. I once followed Ian King’s 12 week leg program, Limping Series. During his “control” phase I was doing the dumbest shit known to the BB world. I was doing weird shit for my calves, hopping on one leg, supersetting, etc, 1 and 1/4 movements, squats with an 8 second eccentric, all sorts of stuff. Then during his control phases for the upper body from his book, you did 1 and 1/2 movements, supersets, drop sets, giant sets. It was out of control! I once tried German Volume Training. Another routine that was totally ridiculous. I once tried the Anabolic Diet and lost my mind keeping track of shit.

I once tried the late Mentzer’s advice of training a bodypart once every 10 to 14 days with 1 set. People asked me what happened to my physique. These authors are out of control! I once tried the ABCDE diet. Nothing happened! ALL of these things SUCKED! And so I am here today doing what NORMAL BBers and do and making progress every couple of months.
These authors are out of control. They say pectoral hypertrophy. They could just say chest size. They say local and global. They could just not use these words. They say cross section. They could just say size. The only normal ones left are CT and LL.

143

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
The same goes for nutrition. People come out with these outrageously complicated diets which are probably useful AT TIMES. But to think that regular people or even competitive people are going to follow the nuttiest nutrition schedules is ridiculous.
My friend and I have had ongoing jokes while eating stuff: “I am comitting anti-Poliquinism”. I have heard this guy talk about the most outrageous shit concerning nutrition and some guy on the Siff Listserv who was a gastroenterologist tore some of Poliquin’s nutritional beliefs apart. Talk of Vitamin C therapy. Talk of restoring hypogonadal males with nutrition protocols and not hormone replacement therapy. Talk of whites not being good with carbs. Some of these authors are out of control. Scott Abel, when he came out with an article and an interview on Anabolic Extreme, my nerves were frayed by the end of reading them. Years later, aftering becoming a dietitian and near done with a masters in nutrition, his articles still make no sense to me! His articles seemed and still seem like they are in out fucking space! Check his innervation training articles from Muscle Mag and AE. I am rambling now, but I literally have had training years destroyed! Money, time, effort down the trashbin of history! I once even experimented with AC’s Afterburn routine even after doing my own thing because I was curious to see if it works. I followed one workout, came home, and literally barfed my guts out! I was sick the next day and had to call in to work. Once, when I was 20 years old, I was trying to hog two pieces of equipment and using my stop watch while following a Poliquin routine. People at my gym thought I was nuts. One even wanted to beat the shit out of me, told my friend that I looked like a fuckin nutjob and that I thought I was hot shit with my stop watch and journal and frantic pacing around the gym! I once followed Bill Phillip’s advice on how to get lean from one of the old Muscle Media issues. I literally withered away into nothing! I once followed HST by Bryan Haycock and wouind up with the dumbest looking physique. My quads were enormous, my glutes and hams got smaller, I developed awful posture, and had a huge muscle imbalance. My physique was totally off and silly looking. My lower body dwarfed my upper body. I once followed Ian King’s 12 week leg program, Limping Series. During his “control” phase I was doing the dumbest shit known to the BB world. I was doing weird shit for my calves, hopping on one leg, supersetting, etc, 1 and 1/4 movements, squats with an 8 second eccentric, all sorts of stuff. Then during his control phases for the upper body from his book, you did 1 and 1/2 movements, supersets, drop sets, giant sets. It was out of control! I once tried German Volume Training. Another routine that was totally ridiculous. I once tried the Anabolic Diet and lost my mind keeping track of shit. I once tried the late Mentzer’s advice of training a bodypart once every 10 to 14 days with 1 set. People asked me what happened to my physique. These authors are out of control! I once tried the ABCDE diet. Nothing happened! ALL of these things SUCKED! And so I am here today doing what NORMAL BBers and do and making progress every couple of months.
These authors are out of control. They say pectoral hypertrophy. They could just say chest size. They say local and global. They could just not use these words. They say cross section. They could just say size. The only normal ones left are CT and LL. [/quote]

Paragraphs man paragraphs…great rant !

144

I love Ian King’s Limping Series, and his Upper Body program that went with it. Best gains of my life right there.

145

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
I saw the first post of this topic thread and I couldn’t help but empathize with this guy’s story. I, too, in my early 20s literally destroyed what could have been years of useful training time. I got caught up with following programs by Ian King, Charles Poliquin, Don Alessi, and the like. People in my hardcore gym also thought I was fucking nuts! Many of them actually would come up to me and say “what happened to you? You used to be big!” I had a journal (I still keep one to this day though), a stop watch, and was trying to hog two pieces of equipment at all times. Training was a nightmare!

I cannot tell you how many guys I know, some of whom have written for this website, state that their training went to the shitter when following some of these ridiculous routines! To think about how much I love bodybuilding and the fact that I dumped SOOO much time into these routines actually makes me feel like a fucking moron at times! I could probably be 15 lbs as I speak and a lot stronger. Come to think of it, the best book I ever read when starting out was Arnold’s. I trained 5 days per week with some bodypart routine I threw together and grew like a weed.

It was only when I tried these crazy routines in my 20s that everything went to the shitter. Now, I am 28 and in great shape and happy with the way things are going.

I do think these authors are to be blamed to a degree. They know that 1000s of people read their stuff and a good amount are going to follow their advice. So when their advice leads to years of wasted training investment, it is in part their fault. Lyle McDonald and Mel Siff’s supertraining listserv actually said authors should be blamed for fucking up people’s training, fucking up their time! [/quote]

That is why i tend to follow advice of guys like you, Professor… and the rare trainer that has sucess histories to show like Dante Trudell and few others.

Bland,boring sets of common exercises chasing record weights everytime is the way to go.

146

For all of the CW bashing you guys are doing regarding some of his unusual training methods, look at his articles. A good portion of them are heavily focused on basic exercises.

No matter what type of split or lack thereof you subscribe to, no one can dispute the effectiveness of workouts centered around deads, squats, presses, dips, rows, and chins.

Period.

147

[quote]irongutted wrote:
Bricknyce wrote:
I saw the first post of this topic thread and I couldn’t help but empathize with this guy’s story. I, too, in my early 20s literally destroyed what could have been years of useful training time. I got caught up with following programs by Ian King, Charles Poliquin, Don Alessi, and the like. People in my hardcore gym also thought I was fucking nuts! Many of them actually would come up to me and say “what happened to you? You used to be big!” I had a journal (I still keep one to this day though), a stop watch, and was trying to hog two pieces of equipment at all times. Training was a nightmare!

I cannot tell you how many guys I know, some of whom have written for this website, state that their training went to the shitter when following some of these ridiculous routines! To think about how much I love bodybuilding and the fact that I dumped SOOO much time into these routines actually makes me feel like a fucking moron at times! I could probably be 15 lbs as I speak and a lot stronger. Come to think of it, the best book I ever read when starting out was Arnold’s. I trained 5 days per week with some bodypart routine I threw together and grew like a weed.

It was only when I tried these crazy routines in my 20s that everything went to the shitter. Now, I am 28 and in great shape and happy with the way things are going.

I do think these authors are to be blamed to a degree. They know that 1000s of people read their stuff and a good amount are going to follow their advice. So when their advice leads to years of wasted training investment, it is in part their fault. Lyle McDonald and Mel Siff’s supertraining listserv actually said authors should be blamed for fucking up people’s training, fucking up their time!

That is why i tend to follow advice of guys like you, Professor… and the rare trainer that has sucess histories to show like Dante Trudell and few others.

Bland,boring sets of common exercises chasing record weights everytime is the way to go.[/quote]

Dude, you responded to me, not Prof. :slight_smile: Thanks though! :slight_smile:

148

Poliquin has also stated several times that he trains non bodybuilding athletes who have thighs that are bigger than those of Tom Platz (in this instance, he was referring to a female athlete) and Ronnie Coleman. Is this guy kidding me?!

Bricknyce
Minister of Bodybuilding Propaganda
“Hell Bent on Restoring Order to the Bodybuilding Community Since April, 2008”
T-MAG Bodybuilding Forum

149

i think the moral of this thread is clear
“Keep is it simple stupid!”

http://www.T-Nation.com/article/bodybuilding/weight_trainings_dirty_little_secret&cr=

Chad’s program may not be for you, but his principles and promotion of basic exercises is great. Poliquin may be chronic lier about his trainees, or maybe he trains with magnification goggles on, i don’t care; but he’s got some great ideas for training and recovery. Scott Abel may not no shit about nutrition, but his programs will make you a better athlete no matter what field or stage its on.

The point is each has something too offer. If you failed, take it as a learning experience. If it took you a whole year to figure that out, thats a hard learned lesson, but it’s still your own failure. Learn from it and move on. German 10X10 didn’t work for you? thats a shame, did wonders for me. How did you get in such good shape? TBT? really, thats awesome, glad you found something that works for you. Gymnastics got you those peaked biceps, ripped abs and capped shoulders? Well, its not my style but if it works for you, good on ya.

Fellow T-men, the only person who can make gains for you is you. I don’t care what you have to do, but get your body zen on and figure out what works for you and stick to it. While you’re at it, eat some meat and veggies. It’s that simple.

Keep it simple stupid.

Ironjoe

150

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
Poliquin has also stated several times that he trains non bodybuilding athletes who have thighs that are bigger than those of Tom Platz (in this instance, he was referring to a female athlete) and Ronnie Coleman. Is this guy kidding me?!

Bricknyce
Minister of Bodybuilding Propaganda
“Hell Bent on Restoring Order to the Bodybuilding Community Since April, 2008”
T-MAG Bodybuilding Forum[/quote]

I like your posts. I am curious- what programs do you like? Can you provide some examples? You mentioned CT- do you like OVT?

Thanks in advance.

151

[quote]NY_Pitbull wrote:
…great rant ![/quote]

Yeah, great stuff Brick! That was easily the most entertaining rant I’ve seen in ages.

152

Would you make the same complaint about DC training then? Using your favorite 3 moves for each bodypart and hittig each exercise only once every 15 days. Thats alot of variation. You can progress quite nicely doing a particlar workout once a week, while hitting that same bodypart with more sessions until you again return to that same exercise. Lots of big boys do it with DC training.

And the rep ranges you used are hardly all that different. 3’s , 5’s , and 8’s are all within about 10-12% of each other as far as %max. Just as Poliquin likes to keep it in a phase.

TBT, per se spreads the ranges out alot more than that.

Personally, I had my best gains as a newbie following OTS’s BBB progam. Train a bodypart 3x per week, rep ranges from 5-15 reps and choosing a different exercise for each day of the week and returning to that exercise 7 days later.

Maybe the problem is too much talking and not enough grit and food. Just maybe.

And if you got fat, then that was your own fault. He mentions how to do a basic diet to stay lean etc…

Its one thing to not be a fan of a particular philosophy, its another thing to blame getting fat and weaker on Chad. Good grief,man. Ive seen it all.

DH

[quote]Der Candy wrote:
mrw173 wrote:
I know this isn’t exactly what the original poster wanted, but I’m confused as to why Waterbury’s programs, when implemented correctly as prescribed, should be avoided by beginners? What are central to his programs that result in such a statement?

I can see how the advanced bodybuilder may not benefit very much from total body workouts. I’m personally not at that level, but I’ve heard numerous other people say that and I’ll trust them. But I fail to see why the beginner or intermediate lifter should avoid programs like CW’s that maximize variability.

One distinction that should be made is what is a beginner? CW says in his book a “true” beginner who is just picking up weights for the first time should just do something basic. But his definition of a beginner for his programs is someone who already has a solid base.

Because if you are doing 3 different rep schemes throughout the week, it takes you three times as long to progress on them. Why would a beginner need to do a different workout every time he enters the gym, when insted he could be adding a few pounds to the same lift and progressing very linearly? Chad Waterbury has so much variation in his programs because he believes your body adapts very quickly to specific training stimuli (exercise and rep scheme). A beginners CNS doesn’t adapt that fast that in 2 weeks he needs to do a different bench variation or switch his reps around.

It’s funny because the more I look around the more I see that the biggest guys do pretty much the same workouts all the time, and only make small tweaks here and there. They switch lifts when they plateau on one, which may be 3 weeks or 35 weeks.
[/quote]

153

You tell him man, 15 months after the fact.

154

I’m married. I’m trained to get the last word in far after the argument is over. :wink:

DH

[quote]Rape Weight wrote:
You tell him man, 15 months after the fact.[/quote]

155

I started TBT in the middle of March using a Waterbury like set up, with quite a few tweaks including NOT changing my routines every two weeks. My thing was I see routines where they advocate high weight and low reps. And I see other places where they advocate high reps and low weight. I tried finding out what you guys thought was the best way, and got nothing other than Holy Mac telling me to stop over analysing and just lift heavy.

So instead of deciding between the two I started this quasi Waterbury thing because it had me doing BOTH and then something else in between. It also had loads of good variety which is good for me because I get bored easy.

I have to say, it’s working like a freaking charm. I AM growing. I don’t know if I will keep this up as i get into the intermediate stage but maybe.
When I feel confident enough about it, I’ll post pics.

156

Bodybuilding is for bodybuilders, and bodybuilders train with splits end of. I have no problem with CW’s methods and i’m sure loads of atheletes n just regular guys are thankful! But i’d bet my life on it that none r competetive BB’ers. I only hope that young guys who wanna be the next ‘O’ dnt stumble across his articles and ebooks and waste a few years treding water in the gym or not making the progress they could of…

157

Ouch.

I stubbed my toe.

158

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Ouch.

I stubbed my toe.[/quote]

First you sneeze in one thread gets me thinking you have a cold now you stub your toe. Your going to be one hurting guy at the end of today.

159

[quote]Fuzzyapple wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Ouch.

I stubbed my toe.

First you sneeze in one thread gets me thinking you have a cold now you stub your toe. Your going to be one hurting guy at the end of today. [/quote]

It’s all this UNfunctional muscle mass. It makes me dizzy and allergic to discussion forums.

160

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Fuzzyapple wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Ouch.

I stubbed my toe.

First you sneeze in one thread gets me thinking you have a cold now you stub your toe. Your going to be one hurting guy at the end of today.

It’s all this UNfunctional muscle mass. It makes me dizzy and allergic to discussion forums.[/quote]

I’m positive your doing this to get people to read important threads and so far I’m reading/learning more.