Censorship at T-Nation? - POLL

[quote]Mufasa wrote:
I’ve posted a lot about this in the past; but quite frankly, I’m tired of ending up raked over the coals on some site by a group of people that have issues with “The Nation”. It gets old.

So I’ll keep it short.

Many of you obviously have no idea whatsoever:

  1. How quickly a site can morph into this strange mix of pseudo-sexual/pseudo-political/fetish and hate riddled/wasteland of adolescent fantasies, pedophilia, political propaganda and whatever deep seated, unresolved issue that someone can’t express in their real life. This isn’t fantasy…it’s the reality of the Internet.

  2. The extent to which individuals, companies and/or Corporations will go to destroy not just competitors…but people they just don’t like.

You don’t believe it?

  1. Open your own buisness on the Internet.

  2. Give it an “open” Forum with no Moderation.

  3. PM me your results.

Mufasa
[/quote]

So very true.

[quote]dollarbill44 wrote:
TC wrote:
A few weeks ago, a guy I know from the gym finally logged onto Testosterone.

His first words to me were, “Man, your site is full of hate.”

I gotta’ admit, that bothered me.

There does seem to be a lot of hatred going around right now. I hope it’s just a phase. I blame the continental europeans.

DB[/quote]

I don’t see any hate outside of the politics and world issues forum. And that is definitely toned down a lot compared to oh say something like this:

http://post.news.messages.yahoo.com/bbs?.mm=NEWS&action=l&ft=1&board=37138469&sid=37138469&title=Bush%20Repackages%20Plans%20for%20State%20of%20Union &tid=apstateofunion&date=02-01-2005&url=story.news.yahoo.com%2Fnews%3Ftmpl%3Dstory%26u%3D%2Fap%2F20050201%2Fap_on_go_pr_wh%2Fstate_of_union_1&.sig=9vFsoN0WpQwVJ9kg.K7Ltg--

(I hope that linked alright)

[quote]orion wrote:
A few hundred posts later I can post in german without being censored.[/quote]

I think it depends on the Mod. I’ve had a post “censored” for being in Italian, but I’ve had a couple others go through.

When my post was not allowed, the mod was courteous enough to let me know why, so no big deal.

[quote]Mufasa wrote:
I’ve posted a lot about this in the past; but quite frankly, I’m tired of ending up raked over the coals on some site by a group of people that have issues with “The Nation”. It gets old.

So I’ll keep it short.

Many of you obviously have no idea whatsoever:

  1. How quickly a site can morph into this strange mix of pseudo-sexual/pseudo-political/fetish and hate riddled/wasteland of adolescent fantasies, pedophilia, political propaganda and whatever deep seated, unresolved issue that someone can’t express in their real life. This isn’t fantasy…it’s the reality of the Internet.

  2. The extent to which individuals, companies and/or Corporations will go to destroy not just competitors…but people they just don’t like.

You don’t believe it?

  1. Open your own buisness on the Internet.

  2. Give it an “open” Forum with no Moderation.

  3. PM me your results.

Mufasa
[/quote]

Why do you talk such sense Mufasa? Obviously many readers expect Tim Patterson to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to run a free for all with NO regards to his business interests. What kind of Nazi values his investment over some anonynous person freedom of expression?

[quote]nephorm wrote:
orion wrote:
A few hundred posts later I can post in german without being censored.

I think it depends on the Mod. I’ve had a post “censored” for being in Italian, but I’ve had a couple others go through.

When my post was not allowed, the mod was courteous enough to let me know why, so no big deal.[/quote]

You gotta’ remember (and it sounds like you do), the mods are just regular folk, each trying to do the best they can in making judgment calls.

It’s particularly tough when they have up to 60 posts waiting for them. They read all of them, send them through, and then have 60 or more waiting for them.

There are actually times now when I have to assign two mods to a shift.

It’s not for the faint of heart!

Fuck all;keep it the way it is.

[quote]TC wrote:
A few weeks ago, a guy I know from the gym finally logged onto Testosterone.

His first words to me were, “Man, your site is full of hate.”

I gotta’ admit, that bothered me.

I’m sure he looged onto the political forum, but nevertheless, I hated to hear his reaction.

While I hate censorship, we have to have some guidelines. For instance, I prefer to keep racial slurs off the site, as well as terms like “fag”.

Furthermore, mods are asked to intervene when discussions get extremely personal and the IQ of the thread, if not the entire site, starts being dragged down.

Nudity isn’t permitted either. Believe me, that pains me, but it’s for several reasons. One, it doesn’t fit in with the moral code of many members of the staff, two, we don’t want to turn this into a porn site because so many other sites do it better; and three, out of courtesy to the guy who’s reading the site at work.

Lastly, we’re somewhat careful about first-time posters who come out and say something complietely off-the-wall about one of our supplements.

If there were no monitoring of these posts, it would be oh-so easy to affect Biotest’s sales. All it takes is one unsubstantiated rumor planted in the minds of some newbies.

Oh, and lastly, we’d prefer if people didn’t advertise their own supplements or supplement sites on our site because, well, why should someone else profit off our labor?

There you have pretty much our entire philosophy regarding censorship.[/quote]

I would hate to hear that reaction too.

This is a site that does a great service and has an almost cult like following. Years ago when the whole “T-Nation” community idea began to gel I really bought into that. It felt good.

Filled with hate is a pretty good description these days I know my viewing and posting has dropped way off. Just kind of lost interest in arguing and fighting about opinions, instead of discussing them. My personal opinion is that the mods should have a short trigger on personal attacks or flames. What does it accomplish besides an ego boost for the flamer.

Censorship is one of those inflammatory terms used by too many these days. In reality a simple code of conduct or acting like an adult is all that’s required to elevate folks enjoyment of a website.

Biotest provides a good forum for people to post ideas, discuss concepts, ask questions and get information.

The varied mix is fun and informative. Sort of like a party at your house, but if someone takes a dump on your table you have a perfect right to toss him out and tell him not to come back.

[quote]TC wrote:
nephorm wrote:
orion wrote:
A few hundred posts later I can post in german without being censored.

I think it depends on the Mod. I’ve had a post “censored” for being in Italian, but I’ve had a couple others go through.

When my post was not allowed, the mod was courteous enough to let me know why, so no big deal.

You gotta’ remember (and it sounds like you do), the mods are just regular folk, each trying to do the best they can in making judgment calls.

It’s particularly tough when they have up to 60 posts waiting for them. They read all of them, send them through, and then have 60 or more waiting for them.

There are actually times now when I have to assign two mods to a shift.

It’s not for the faint of heart![/quote]

I’ll say they do a good job. I love this site and have been addicted to it since I found it, and the number of posts I have displays that.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
I actually think that whining should be given estrogen points. Once enough estrogen points are accumulated, the poster should either be kicked off or forced to change his name to “bitch”. [/quote]

I think we discussed this on another thread at one time. Let people rate each other with T-points, E-points, whatever. Maybe negative T-points would equal Estrogen points. This would indicate the real experts (high T) versus idiots (low T, or high E.) But instead of kicking them off, add a preference that we could ignore anybody with a T level below some number.

If you filtered messages on high T points, it would get the same results as the old Dog Pound.

I’ve had a lot of posts censored…and I mean a lot; and it gets to me at times b/c I think it should be obvious that I am not on here to sabotage Biotest. I praise some of their products; others I’m indifferent about. I don’t attempt to diss a product without trying it and I’ve tried most of their products.
And all the hate on the Nation? That gets to me more than the censorship. Sure most of you guys beating up on me is all in good fun and I set up my threads for that to happen (beat my caption anyone?). Well sometimes; softer side was not supposed to be that bad…
But when people call me out b/c I am not cult-like and go around with my arms in the air praying to Biotest like their god now that gets to me and makes me think that you’re all just a bunch of hidebound jack-asses that need to get a fucking life.

And as far as posting it’s annoying quite often to watch how I phrase things; I know I can’t be too negative and I try to give Biotest the benefit of the doubt; but hell if I’ve tried something and wasn’t fond of it and I stated it along with praise for something (say I didn’t like the taste of a certain Grow! Flavor) should it be edited so that only my praise is left? In my opinion that’s changing the meaning of what I’m attempting to convey and I’d rather my post not go through at all.

[quote]I think we discussed this on another thread at one time. Let people rate each other with T-points, E-points, whatever. Maybe negative T-points would equal Estrogen points. This would indicate the real experts (high T) versus idiots (low T, or high E.) But instead of kicking them off, add a preference that we could ignore anybody with a T level below some number.

If you filtered messages on high T points, it would get the same results as the old Dog Pound. [/quote]

I’m a big fan of letting us vote on each other’s behavior, as long as there are no automatic “consequences” per se.

When someone starts getting all heated and hateful, they’d notice their “respect” level falling and decide whether or not they care.

It would remind you that other people are reading your comments… that it isn’t really a private conversation with no impact on others enjoyment of the site.

These numbers wouldn’t have to be publicly available… though it would be nice if we could at least see our own.

[quote]Proteinpowda wrote:
I’ve had a lot of posts censored…and I mean a lot; [/quote]

You do write posts about tasting your own semen. What do you expect?

Half joking.

[quote]Massif wrote:
Proteinpowda wrote:
I’ve had a lot of posts censored…and I mean a lot;

You do write posts about tasting your own semen. What do you expect?

Half joking.
[/quote]

I was hoping people forgot about that…

Apparently people pay more attention to my posts than I realize. And not a single post of mine has been deleted b/c it was “off the wall,” other than a rant thread of mine b/c I wrote about 3 of them at once.

All you bitch-ass censor wannabe’s can go to North Korea.

[quote]Proteinpowda wrote:
I’ve had a lot of posts censored…and I mean a lot; and it gets to me at times b/c I think it should be obvious that I am not on here to sabotage Biotest. I praise some of their products; others I’m indifferent about. I don’t attempt to diss a product without trying it and I’ve tried most of their products.
And all the hate on the Nation? That gets to me more than the censorship. Sure most of you guys beating up on me is all in good fun and I set up my threads for that to happen (beat my caption anyone?). Well sometimes; softer side was not supposed to be that bad…
But when people call me out b/c I am not cult-like and go around with my arms in the air praying to Biotest like their god now that gets to me and makes me think that you’re all just a bunch of hidebound jack-asses that need to get a fucking life.

And as far as posting it’s annoying quite often to watch how I phrase things; I know I can’t be too negative and I try to give Biotest the benefit of the doubt; but hell if I’ve tried something and wasn’t fond of it and I stated it along with praise for something (say I didn’t like the taste of a certain Grow! Flavor) should it be edited so that only my praise is left? In my opinion that’s changing the meaning of what I’m attempting to convey and I’d rather my post not go through at all.

[/quote]

Powda,

I’ll put it like this dude,

You brought it on all by yourself.

You’re an attention junkie, or at least you used to be, so of course some of the feedback went a little too far with as much insecure and self gratifying content you put on these forums.

A lot of your posts back then were like this:

“Ahem, hi everybody, me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me foopa me me me me me me me me foopa me vegitarian me me me me… thoughts?”

Hidebound jackasses who need to get a life?

C’mon dude. Just because people said things to you and about you that you didn’t want to hear/read?

Petty.

[quote]elevationgain wrote:
Powda,

I’ll put it like this dude,

You brought it on all by yourself.

You’re an attention junkie, or at least you used to be, so of course some of the feedback went a little too far with as much insecure and self gratifying content you put on these forums.

A lot of your posts back then were like this:

“Ahem, hi everybody, me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me foopa me me me me me me me me foopa me vegitarian me me me me… thoughts?”

Hidebound jackasses who need to get a life?

C’mon dude. Just because people said things to you and about you that you didn’t want to hear/read?

Petty.

[/quote]

Those posts you are referencing are in my fun category and I do not get pissed at those replies; rather as you so correctly stated I’m an attention junkie and thus love them.

The posts that piss me off go something like “Powda you’re an idiot b/c you don’t agree with everything Biotest does.”

For the record it’s rare that I agree with everything ANYONE does.

I vote that things stay the way they are (lightly moderated but not letting things get way out of hand)…

if the only posts on the forums that got through the censors were a bunch of guys patting each other on the back all the time this place would be BORING as hell…

the occasional ‘poo throwing’ sermons by TC and forum posters is one of the things that makes this site so kickass …so many other sites are so dry, humorless, and estrogen soaked that they’re more dull than a date with an eighty year old nun…

people get there feeling hurt here …waaaaah!..you’ve got to be thick skinned in this neck of the woods and if you’re not you’ll more than likely run away with your tail between your legs…

what the hell do people expect when they show up to a site called Testosterone Nation? uber polite tea-time with the queen of england?

[quote]TC wrote:

While I hate censorship, we have to have some guidelines. For instance, I prefer to keep racial slurs off the site, as well as terms like “fag”.

[/quote]

[b]Marlon Brando in Apocalypse Now as Colonel Kurtz

" We train young men to drop fire on people. But their commanders won’t allow them to write “fuck” on their aeroplane because it’s obscene. "[/b]

I love that quote, so I’ll try to tie it in here somehow.

TC, I don’t have any particular experience being censored for content, or anti-Biotest or pro-other company’s products, so I won’t comment on that.

I specifically targeted the word, ‘fag’ in the original post, and intentionally left out any mention of racial slurs.

If someone wanted to discuss censorship of racial slurs, ( which apparently, you do… hehe ) I wanted them to bring it up.

Perhaps, seperating homophobia and racism is a good thing. You can lump it all into ‘prejudice’ if you want, but they are two seperate issues. IN MY OPINION since this is a Testosterone driven site, and there are about 2 admitted homosexuals (and BFG) posting on the forum, AND clearly the members here are comfortable with words like ‘cocksmoker’… AND many of us ‘homophobes’ probably consider being gay a choice of lifestyle, then why censor what 99.99% of the members are quite comfortable with?

Now racism, that’s an entirely different matter. I doubt there’s very many members here that would speak for pro-racism posts.

If you’re concerned with ‘political correctness’ and generating more traffic to the forum, I’d say that banning words like, ‘fag, and fudge-packer’ aren’t going to make more people stick around here, and post meaningful shit, and buy Biotest products.

That’s my 2 cents worth ( Canadian )

sorry about the run-on sentences.

|/ 3Toes

If someone doesn’t like the posts then they shouldn’t read them. In a world that is being turned into a big pc cry fest, T-Nation is a good place where thought can be freely expressed. So fuck off all you crybabies.

[quote]DPH wrote:

what the hell do people expect when they show up to a site called Testosterone Nation? uber polite tea-time with the queen of england?[/quote]

A spot of tea would be lovely.

Actually, I think those old ladies must have incredibly strong fingers to grasp those tiny little tea cup handles, while extending the pinky finger. They must practice that form…

|/ 3Toes