Catholicism - Heart and Soul of a Great Nation

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
241

[quote]mse2us wrote:

No I’m not missing that fact. Since Trinitarians accept the fact that the Trinity teaching can’t be explained and supposedly beyond human comprehension, I know that you all believe that Jesus is God in the flesh while on earth yet at the same time is in heaven as the spirit God. So that means as Jesus is God in the flesh on earth he is lying when he makes statements that the “Father is greater than I am,” that he doesn’t have the permission to grant who will sit at his right and left hand in his Kingdom, and when he states at Matthew 24:36 that not even he knows when armegeddon will come but only God knows. That doesn’t make since, but sadly you all accept the fact that the Trinity does not make sense and can’t be explained.
[/quote]

Your fault is in believing YOU can fully understand God using only scripture and that the scripture is all you need to find the truth. You look at only the words and use your humanly understanding to guide your thoughts about the relationship of God and Jesus. This is a mistake. You must let the third part of the Trinity, The Holy Spirit, guide you to see the truth.

You have asked for us to reconcile what you consider discrepancies between different scriptures. I now ask YOU to reconcile them. You don’t seem to want to. Instead you choose the scripture that makes the most worldly sense, dismissing the one that makes the most spiritual sense.

Why should the Trinity make perfect sense to you, in your humanly understanding? Do you feel you SHOULD be able to understand God in all his power? Is it then just the fact that it doesn’t make sense to you, that you don’t believe? This is the reason many athiests give as to why they don’t believe. Since they can’t understand it, and insults their intelligence, they won’t believe it.

Look with your heart, friend, not you mind. The words alone will not give you the answer. Let the Spirit guide you.

242

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]mse2us wrote:

[quote]cueball wrote:

[quote]mse2us wrote:

The reason that there is confusion over this verse is because of the fact that in Kione or what is the Greek language today there was not an indefinate article. So the word A was left out before the lower case god.[/quote]

And who has determined there SHOULD BE an indefinite article in that verse, and also that the word “god” SHOULD BE lower case when it appears after capitalized “Word” in this verse: “and the Word was a god”.

There are many translations out there. And MANY use “and the Word was God”. Are you saying that by some reason, every translation that uses that wording and capitalization got it wrong? Am I to assume you feel that your translator for the NWT know more about Greek language than ANY other translator?

Why shouldn’t John read this way:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with a god, and the Word was a god.

Please show me by what authority and reasoning the NWT is MORE correct than the numerous translations stating it differently.

Also, are we in agreement that regardless of being capitalized or not, the “god” that comes after- “and the Word was”-is referring to Jesus?[/quote]

Cueball before I answer anymore of your questions can you answer my question? I thoroughly answered your question about how could Jesus be used to create everything and not be God. My question is what can you say about the fact that the Bible clearly states at Revelation 3:14 and Colossians 1:15 that Jesus was a created?

Dmaddox, Pat or anyone else feel free to chime in.[/quote]

You have stated many times that everything was created through Jesus. Which to me, you are saying that God created everything through Jesus. Jesus did not do the creating. Col 1:16 states that all things were created by him and for him. In verse 15 we were talking about Jesus, so the by him and for him is still Jesus. So your argument is that Jesus created himself. I agree.

What are you trying to get out of Revelation 3:14? Has nothing to do with Jesus. Paul is writing to the angel or bishop of the chruch in Laodicea. If you are refering to the ruler you have stated many time that God is King and not Jesus, so your argument is bad. We on the other hand see that Jesus is God so he is King of everything.

Again you pull a verse out of the Bible and do not read the verses preceding it of after it.[/quote]
Let me show you another scripture that may be a little clearer.
“This is taken from the New Revised Standard Addition translation. Hebrews 3:1-3:
Long ago God spoke to our ancestors in many and various ways by the prophets, 2but in these last days he has spoken to us by a Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, THROUGH whom he also created the worlds. 3He is the reflection of God’s glory and the exact imprint of God’s very being, and he sustains all things by his powerful word. When he had made purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4having become as much superior to angels as the name he has inherited is more excellent than theirs.”

Is it any clearer to you? Can you see that these verses CLEARLY distinguish between Jesus and God and state that God created the WORLDS THROUGH JESUS. They also state that Jesus is the REFLECTION OF GOD’S GLORY, not that he IS GOD’S GLORY or he is GOD and that he is at GOD’S RIGHT HAND. It also states that he has been elevated and is now higher than angels. It does not say he is elevated and equal to God. Again, can you see how Jesus could say that “He who has seen me has seen the father” and that He and God is ONE meaning they are united in mind and thought?

In your second paragraph, you don’t know that the Amen and Faithful and True Witness stated at Revelation 3:14 is Jesus? John, which is who wrote Revelation, is not writing to a congregation when he writes the book of Revelation. Revelation 1:1 states that the revelation was given to Jesus by God and then Jesus sends an angel as his mouth piece to tell John what he said. So Jesus is talking through this angel.

In chapter 3 of Revelation an angel who Jesus sent is talking to the angels of the different congregations or churches. In verse 14 Jesus through the angel is talking to the Angel of the congregation of Laodicea and he calls himself “Amen” and “Faithful and True Witness.” Are there any scriptures in the Bible that state this? Yes.

2 Corinthians 1:20 states Jesus is the Amen:
19 For the Son of God, Christ Jesus, who was preached among YOU through us, that is, through me and Silvanus and Timothy, did not become Yes and yet No, but Yes has become Yes in his case. 20 For no matter how many the promises of God are, they have become Yes by means of him. Therefore also through him is the “Amen” said to God for glory through us."

Revelation 1:5 states he is the Faithful Witness:
"and from Jesus Christ, “the Faithful Witness,” “The firstborn from the dead,” and “The Ruler of the kings of the earth.”

Revelation 19:11-13 states:
“11 And I saw the heaven opened, and, look! a white horse. And the one seated upon it is called FAITHFUL AND TRUE, and he judges and carries on war in righteousness. 12 His eyes are a fiery flame, and upon his head are many diadems. He has a name written that no one knows but he himself, 13 and he is arrayed with an outer garment sprinkled with blood, and the name he is called is The Word of God.”

I hope this clarifies your understanding of Revelation 3:14 which shows that Jesus was the FIRST BORN OF ALL CREATION.

243

[quote]mse2us wrote:
[
It also states that he has been elevated and is now higher than angels. It does not say he is elevated and equal to God.[/quote]

Again, you see only what you want to see. God is higher than the angels. He was elevated to a position higher than the angels. Just because it doesn’t spell it out for you that He was elevated equal to God, doesn’t mean He wasn’t. If He was elevated to a position higher than angels, but lower than God, it would say so as to not MAKE IT CLEAR Jesus is below Him.

You are the one interjecting this distinction, NOT the scripture.

244

I hope that the Holy Spirit’s clarification that Jesus is God, will make all your questions go away. Once you understand that Jesus is God your answers are easy. You see them as two separate beings, so you can not see the power of God/Jesus. You are trying to use your own abilities to explain the Bible. You and I have stated many times that God’s ways are not our way’s, and his thoughts are higher than our thoughts. You ability to prove you are worthy of his love goes against everything that He tells us.

For it is by Faith through Grace you are saved. If Jesus is in your heart you will hear the Holy Spirit directing you. If Jesus is not in your heart, then you need to repent and ask him to come into your heart. Once this happens the Holy Spirit will come upon you and show you the meaning of the Word of God. True Joy only comes from God. “Fear not for I am with you,” says the Lord.

245

A lot of people are turned OFF of religion because of all the confusion the trinity creates. The Bible is very logical. Everything that God created is very logical. Look at the solar system, the order of it. Look at the water cycle, look at the food chain. It all is very logical and understandable without mystical elements. Why, when trying to understand the creator of everything, do we have to set aside logic and rely on faith that the impossible is actually taking place? Not just the impossible, but something illogical?

I would encourage you to read the following.

http://www.watchtower.org/e/ti/article_04.htm

246

[quote]honest_lifter wrote:

A lot of people are turned OFF of religion because of all the confusion the trinity creates. The Bible is very logical. Everything that God created is very logical. Look at the solar system, the order of it. Look at the water cycle, look at the food chain. It all is very logical and understandable without mystical elements. Why, when trying to understand the creator of everything, do we have to set aside logic and rely on faith that the impossible is actually taking place? Not just the impossible, but something illogical? [/quote]

So you remove one of the most important parts of the Bible since it’s a “turn off” and hard to understand, just to make it easier for you to gain members. Ok…

Tell me, then, if the universe is SO logical, why haven’t we unlocked all it’s mysteries? I would say the universe is FILLED with mystical elements.

Tell me, how do you expect to understand a Creator, an Omnipresent being, One who created EVERYTHING, using your human logic? Do you claim to be able to? I believe relying on faith, not logic, is the whole point here.

What is impossible? Are you saying there are things God cannot do because you deem them impossible? You dare put a limitation on the Almighty because you don’t think it’s possible? Very bold, sir.

[quote]I would encourage you to read the following.

http://www.watchtower.org/e/ti/article_04.htm[/quote]

I will not read your literature if it means I must read it through the lens you read it through.

247

[quote]cueball wrote:

[quote]honest_lifter wrote:

A lot of people are turned OFF of religion because of all the confusion the trinity creates. The Bible is very logical. Everything that God created is very logical. Look at the solar system, the order of it. Look at the water cycle, look at the food chain. It all is very logical and understandable without mystical elements. Why, when trying to understand the creator of everything, do we have to set aside logic and rely on faith that the impossible is actually taking place? Not just the impossible, but something illogical? [/quote]

So you remove one of the most important parts of the Bible since it’s a “turn off” and hard to understand, just to make it easier for you to gain members. Ok…

Tell me, then, if the universe is SO logical, why haven’t we unlocked all it’s mysteries? I would say the universe is FILLED with mystical elements.

Tell me, how do you expect to understand a Creator, an Omnipresent being, One who created EVERYTHING, using your human logic? Do you claim to be able to? I believe relying on faith, not logic, is the whole point here.

What is impossible? Are you saying there are things God cannot do because you deem them impossible? You dare put a limitation on the Almighty because you don’t think it’s possible? Very bold, sir.

[quote]I would encourage you to read the following.

http://www.watchtower.org/e/ti/article_04.htm[/quote]

I will not read your literature if it means I must read it through the lens you read it through.
[/quote]

You read text through my lens. I don’t think this would be any different. It pulls from worldly sources.

248

[quote]honest_lifter wrote:

A lot of people are turned OFF of religion because of all the confusion the trinity creates. The Bible is very logical. Everything that God created is very logical. Look at the solar system, the order of it. Look at the water cycle, look at the food chain. It all is very logical and understandable without mystical elements. Why, when trying to understand the creator of everything, do we have to set aside logic and rely on faith that the impossible is actually taking place? Not just the impossible, but something illogical?

I would encourage you to read the following.

http://www.watchtower.org/e/ti/article_04.htm[/quote]

I think that is your issue. You rely on the WatchTower to explain everything to you. I rely on the Holy Spirit to guide me. You asked earlier what my commentary said about a certain verse. My commentary is the Holy Spirit. I rely on God to teach me. Do I go to people more knowledgable than my self yes. I am not a scholar by any stretch of the imagination. Do I look at different commentaries when I get stumped, Yes. But I allow the Holy Spirit to use those people and books to explain it to me. That is what I mean when I say get alone with God and read your Bible. He is more than willing to give you Wisdom if you ask. When you see Jesus as God and as the Holy Spirit the Trinity becomes very easy to beleive.

Just because creation is logical, why does God have to be logical? God created everything. Jesus created everything out of nothing. Is that logical? They are one and the same. Without Faith our beleifs are dead. Blessed are those that have not seen and yet beleive. I have not seen Jesus, and I would guess you have not either, but you have faith in your Bible that it is correct. The Bible is a true and living being. It lives in our hearts. If you could only see what the Bible truely teaches it will live in your life. Jesus/God love you and want everyone to come to heaven. I know that through Jesus Christ I have the Heavenly Hope. I want you to have it too.

249

[quote]honest_lifter wrote:

You read text through my lens. I don’t think this would be any different. It pulls from worldly sources.

[/quote]

Pardon? What do you mean? What did you think I meant when I said “your lens”? I was referring to the lens of JW teachings. A lens that requires you to read it a certain way, or else.

And I didn’t say text in general. I said your literature specifically. And no, I do not read text through your lens. Not your eyes nor your brain that receives what the eyes see. Nor would I see what that literature is saying the same as you, because you have been told how to view it. Your lens requires to many filters.

Worldly sources? Aren’t you guys telling me that we are to not be “of this world”?

Now, go back and answer the hard questions you so easily skipped:

So you remove one of the most important parts of the Bible since it’s a “turn off” and hard to understand, just to make it easier for you to gain members. Ok…

Tell me, then, if the universe is SO logical, why haven’t we unlocked all it’s mysteries? I would say the universe is FILLED with mystical elements.

Tell me, how do you expect to understand a Creator, an Omnipresent being, One who created EVERYTHING, using your human logic? Do you claim to be able to? I believe relying on faith, not logic, is the whole point here.

What is impossible? Are you saying there are things God cannot do because you deem them impossible? You dare put a limitation on the Almighty because you don’t think it’s possible? Very bold, sir.

250

I’m SO glad I abandoned this thread.

Oh. Wait. I’m still here.

251

[quote]katzenjammer wrote:

I’m SO glad I abandoned this thread.

Oh. Wait. I’m still here. [/quote]

It’s definitely not the same thread you were participating in.

252

[quote]honest_lifter wrote:

[quote]JoabSonOfZeruiah wrote:
Jesus referring to his body as a temple that is going to be destroyed and him raising it up again answers your question about the nature of his death, I see you keep on asking me questions yet won’t answer mine.[/quote]

What was your question?[/quote]
How do you reconcile the passages of the bible that say that everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved yet at the same time claim that the only name man may be saved by is the name of Jesus.

[quote]cueball wrote:
Your fault is in believing YOU can fully understand God using only scripture and that the scripture is all you need to find the truth. You look at only the words and use your humanly understanding to guide your thoughts about the relationship of God and Jesus. This is a mistake. You must let the third part of the Trinity, The Holy Spirit, guide you to see the truth.Let the Spirit guide you.

[/quote]
This is true, because it is his Spirit that will guides us into all truth.

253

[quote]cueball wrote:

[quote]honest_lifter wrote:

You read text through my lens. I don’t think this would be any different. It pulls from worldly sources.

[/quote]

Pardon? What do you mean? What did you think I meant when I said “your lens”? I was referring to the lens of JW teachings. A lens that requires you to read it a certain way, or else.

You skipped over some of my questions as well…
And I didn’t say text in general. I said your literature specifically. And no, I do not read text through your lens. Not your eyes nor your brain that receives what the eyes see. Nor would I see what that literature is saying the same as you, because you have been told how to view it. Your lens requires to many filters.

Worldly sources? Aren’t you guys telling me that we are to not be “of this world”?

Now, go back and answer the hard questions you so easily skipped:

So you remove one of the most important parts of the Bible since it’s a “turn off” and hard to understand, just to make it easier for you to gain members. Ok…

Tell me, then, if the universe is SO logical, why haven’t we unlocked all it’s mysteries? I would say the universe is FILLED with mystical elements.

Tell me, how do you expect to understand a Creator, an Omnipresent being, One who created EVERYTHING, using your human logic? Do you claim to be able to? I believe relying on faith, not logic, is the whole point here.

What is impossible? Are you saying there are things God cannot do because you deem them impossible? You dare put a limitation on the Almighty because you don’t think it’s possible? Very bold, sir.

[/quote]

You didn’t answer some of the questions I asked…and what do you mean by omnipresent, and how do you back that up?

254

[quote]JoabSonOfZeruiah wrote:

[quote]honest_lifter wrote:

[quote]JoabSonOfZeruiah wrote:
Jesus referring to his body as a temple that is going to be destroyed and him raising it up again answers your question about the nature of his death, I see you keep on asking me questions yet won’t answer mine.[/quote]

What was your question?[/quote]
How do you reconcile the passages of the bible that say that everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved yet at the same time claim that the only name man may be saved by is the name of Jesus.

[quote]cueball wrote:
Your fault is in believing YOU can fully understand God using only scripture and that the scripture is all you need to find the truth. You look at only the words and use your humanly understanding to guide your thoughts about the relationship of God and Jesus. This is a mistake. You must let the third part of the Trinity, The Holy Spirit, guide you to see the truth.Let the Spirit guide you.

[/quote]
This is true, because it is his Spirit that will guides us into all truth.[/quote]

Scriptures please. I would like to see what you are using.

255

[quote]honest_lifter wrote:

[quote]cueball wrote:

[quote]honest_lifter wrote:

You read text through my lens. I don’t think this would be any different. It pulls from worldly sources.

[/quote]

Pardon? What do you mean? What did you think I meant when I said “your lens”? I was referring to the lens of JW teachings. A lens that requires you to read it a certain way, or else.

You skipped over some of my questions as well…
And I didn’t say text in general. I said your literature specifically. And no, I do not read text through your lens. Not your eyes nor your brain that receives what the eyes see. Nor would I see what that literature is saying the same as you, because you have been told how to view it. Your lens requires to many filters.

Worldly sources? Aren’t you guys telling me that we are to not be “of this world”?

Now, go back and answer the hard questions you so easily skipped:

So you remove one of the most important parts of the Bible since it’s a “turn off” and hard to understand, just to make it easier for you to gain members. Ok…

Tell me, then, if the universe is SO logical, why haven’t we unlocked all it’s mysteries? I would say the universe is FILLED with mystical elements.

Tell me, how do you expect to understand a Creator, an Omnipresent being, One who created EVERYTHING, using your human logic? Do you claim to be able to? I believe relying on faith, not logic, is the whole point here.

What is impossible? Are you saying there are things God cannot do because you deem them impossible? You dare put a limitation on the Almighty because you don’t think it’s possible? Very bold, sir.

[/quote]

You didn’t answer some of the questions I asked…and what do you mean by omnipresent, and how do you back that up?[/quote]

That is the most tired way of responding to things you don’t have answer’s for and don’t WANT to answer. These questions were in DIRECT response to statements YOU made. This is no longer about answering or “reconciling” scripture. This is about your true feelings and beliefs about God and what you assume of Him. You took this thread there by claiming certain things regarding HIM to be illogical AND impossible.

Ahh, I just noticed you edited your post. Fortunately I responded before the edit took place. Were you really going to ask me what I mean by Omnipresent? And I need to back up what I mean by Omnipresent? More word playing. Maybe that’s why you removed it.

If you can’t and won’t answer the questions about your assumptions of God’s power, I and any other will have to assume you DO put a limit on his power based on what you feel is illogical and impossible. All because YOUR logic tell you it’s illogical and impossible. And further, that you feel you can understand God (and the universe he created) using your human logic.

Edit: I see now that it wasn’t deleted, it was ADDED. That is what you want to discuss here? My definition of Omnipresent? If you would like, strike that word from my question? It is not a necessary word to describe God for the purpose of the question.

256

[quote]honest_lifter wrote:

[quote]JoabSonOfZeruiah wrote:

[quote]honest_lifter wrote:

[quote]JoabSonOfZeruiah wrote:
Jesus referring to his body as a temple that is going to be destroyed and him raising it up again answers your question about the nature of his death, I see you keep on asking me questions yet won’t answer mine.[/quote]

What was your question?[/quote]
How do you reconcile the passages of the bible that say that everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved yet at the same time claim that the only name man may be saved by is the name of Jesus.

[quote]cueball wrote:
Your fault is in believing YOU can fully understand God using only scripture and that the scripture is all you need to find the truth. You look at only the words and use your humanly understanding to guide your thoughts about the relationship of God and Jesus. This is a mistake. You must let the third part of the Trinity, The Holy Spirit, guide you to see the truth.Let the Spirit guide you.

[/quote]
This is true, because it is his Spirit that will guides us into all truth.[/quote]

Scriptures please. I would like to see what you are using.

[/quote]

Again, you want to use only the words to find the truth. Only what is worldly.

257

[quote]cueball wrote:

[quote]honest_lifter wrote:

[quote]cueball wrote:

[quote]honest_lifter wrote:

You read text through my lens. I don’t think this would be any different. It pulls from worldly sources.

[/quote]

Pardon? What do you mean? What did you think I meant when I said “your lens”? I was referring to the lens of JW teachings. A lens that requires you to read it a certain way, or else.

You skipped over some of my questions as well…
And I didn’t say text in general. I said your literature specifically. And no, I do not read text through your lens. Not your eyes nor your brain that receives what the eyes see. Nor would I see what that literature is saying the same as you, because you have been told how to view it. Your lens requires to many filters.

Worldly sources? Aren’t you guys telling me that we are to not be “of this world”?

Now, go back and answer the hard questions you so easily skipped:

So you remove one of the most important parts of the Bible since it’s a “turn off” and hard to understand, just to make it easier for you to gain members. Ok…

Tell me, then, if the universe is SO logical, why haven’t we unlocked all it’s mysteries? I would say the universe is FILLED with mystical elements.

Tell me, how do you expect to understand a Creator, an Omnipresent being, One who created EVERYTHING, using your human logic? Do you claim to be able to? I believe relying on faith, not logic, is the whole point here.

What is impossible? Are you saying there are things God cannot do because you deem them impossible? You dare put a limitation on the Almighty because you don’t think it’s possible? Very bold, sir.

[/quote]

You didn’t answer some of the questions I asked…and what do you mean by omnipresent, and how do you back that up?[/quote]

That is the most tired way of responding to things you don’t have answer’s for and don’t WANT to answer. These questions were in DIRECT response to statements YOU made. This is no longer about answering or “reconciling” scripture. This is about your true feelings and beliefs about God and what you assume of Him. You took this thread there by claiming certain things regarding HIM to be illogical AND impossible.

Ahh, I just noticed you edited your post. Fortunately I responded before the edit took place. Were you really going to ask me what I mean by Omnipresent? And I need to back up what I mean by Omnipresent? More word playing. Maybe that’s why you removed it.

If you can’t and won’t answer the questions about your assumptions of God’s power, I and any other will have to assume you DO put a limit on his power based on what you feel is illogical and impossible. All because YOUR logic tell you it’s illogical and impossible. And further, that you feel you can understand God (and the universe he created) using your human logic.

[/quote]

Look at the post. I didn’t remove it. I really want to know what you mean by that and where you got it from.

258

[quote]cueball wrote:

[quote]honest_lifter wrote:

[quote]JoabSonOfZeruiah wrote:

[quote]honest_lifter wrote:

[quote]JoabSonOfZeruiah wrote:
Jesus referring to his body as a temple that is going to be destroyed and him raising it up again answers your question about the nature of his death, I see you keep on asking me questions yet won’t answer mine.[/quote]

What was your question?[/quote]
How do you reconcile the passages of the bible that say that everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved yet at the same time claim that the only name man may be saved by is the name of Jesus.

[quote]cueball wrote:
Your fault is in believing YOU can fully understand God using only scripture and that the scripture is all you need to find the truth. You look at only the words and use your humanly understanding to guide your thoughts about the relationship of God and Jesus. This is a mistake. You must let the third part of the Trinity, The Holy Spirit, guide you to see the truth.Let the Spirit guide you.

[/quote]
This is true, because it is his Spirit that will guides us into all truth.[/quote]

Scriptures please. I would like to see what you are using.

[/quote]

Again, you want to use only the words to find the truth. Only what is worldly.

[/quote]

I was asking Joab on this one. About the passages of the Bible.

259

[quote]honest_lifter wrote:

Look at the post. I didn’t remove it. I really want to know what you mean by that and where you got it from.[/quote]

See my edit-

260

[quote]honest_lifter wrote:

[quote]JoabSonOfZeruiah wrote:

[quote]honest_lifter wrote:

[quote]JoabSonOfZeruiah wrote:
Jesus referring to his body as a temple that is going to be destroyed and him raising it up again answers your question about the nature of his death, I see you keep on asking me questions yet won’t answer mine.[/quote]

What was your question?[/quote]
How do you reconcile the passages of the bible that say that everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved yet at the same time claim that the only name man may be saved by is the name of Jesus.

[quote]cueball wrote:
Your fault is in believing YOU can fully understand God using only scripture and that the scripture is all you need to find the truth. You look at only the words and use your humanly understanding to guide your thoughts about the relationship of God and Jesus. This is a mistake. You must let the third part of the Trinity, The Holy Spirit, guide you to see the truth.Let the Spirit guide you.

[/quote]
This is true, because it is his Spirit that will guides us into all truth.[/quote]

Scriptures please. I would like to see what you are using.

[/quote]
I responded with acts 4:10-12 to your claim about romans 10:13 and asked how do you reconcile the difference of which name we must be saved by. You can read back what we posted about our discussion to find out what scripture I was using no need to clutter the board. The scripture for the Spirit of truth is found in John 16:13.