[quote]pat wrote:
And technically yes, your whole self is one giant tissue.[/quote]
And the DERP award goes to…patty cakes.
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]bigflamer wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]bigflamer wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]bigflamer wrote:
[quote]nocturnus wrote:
Aaaahhh, the Catholic Church - where birth control and IVF make you a ‘grave, immoral sinner’ but abusing kids and covering it up is acceptable.
Strange set of rules.[/quote]
You got that right.
[/quote]
Don’t worry, your record is safe. Atheists have murdered over 300 million in the 20th century alone. Nobody is going to beat that record anytime soon. And according to nocturnus, if a few people belonging to a group do a bad thing, it is automatically acceptable by that group. Ergo, in that model, atheists murdering non-atheists is acceptable to atheists. Just like abusing kids is acceptable to Catholics. [/quote]
Ah yes, the old meme of “atheists killing in the name of no god”. LOL…yea
Glad you dragged this out, I’ll have a chance to address it later.[/quote]
Go nuts.[/quote]
On second thought, this old meme is so tired and fallacious that it’s really not worth the time. I do believe that a face palm is in order though, as a tribute to such a classically shit stupid line of reasoning.
[/quote]
Good boy!
It goes both ways you know. You do realize you started this ‘classic shit line’ of reasoning? I was just happy to play along, like I said I have good documentation.
We are no more for molestation than you are for mass murder. But if you say we are for molestation, than I will say you are for mass murder.[/quote]
You have documentation for jack shit. But if you’d like, we could move this conversation over to the hijack thread and continue there.
And my issue with the whole catholic church child molestation debacle is largely due to the cover up that went on. that was reprehensible IMHO. Your church covered it up, just own up to that. So, on one hand they’re working real hard to cover up the child molestations that were going on with their own priests, and on the other hand condemning people as “grave sinners” for wanting IVF, or being on the pill, or living together before marriage, or using rubbers…
So yea, not just a strange set of rules that they run with, but a strange set of values as presented by their actions.
.
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
Didn’t read the article but did it say how the church found out the women was getting the IVF treatment?[/quote]
She told them.
If she shut the fuck up, they would have been none the wiser. [/quote]
LOL, actually what I was thinking when I asked. In all seriousness I don’t think I would tell anyone but close family about IVF. Not that I think its wrong, but the most they need to know is your trying to get pregnant, if that much.
[quote]bigflamer wrote:
Again, not life…[/quote]
Technically could be considered life, but so are a lot of other things even plant cells that nobody cares about.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]WW3General wrote:
To Brother Chris and Sloth
Can
yoU
Not make a new
Thread
seriouSly
[/quote]
No.[/quote]
Read his post a little more closely.
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]WW3General wrote:
To Brother Chris and Sloth
Can
yoU
Not make a new
Thread
seriouSly
[/quote]
No.[/quote]
Read his post a little more closely. [/quote]
I did. Same answer.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]WW3General wrote:
To Brother Chris and Sloth
Can
yoU
Not make a new
Thread
seriouSly
[/quote]
No.[/quote]
Read his post a little more closely. [/quote]
I did. Same answer.
[/quote]
Oh.
I thought you would’ve had a different response to someone calling you a cunt.
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
[quote]bigflamer wrote:
Again, not life…[/quote]
Technically could be considered life, but so are a lot of other things even plant cells that nobody cares about.[/quote]
Sure, pat obviously does, depends on your personal philosophy.
But my point in this IVF discussion is that many, many people do not think that an embryo consisting of eight cells does not constitute life. If pat wants to subscribe to catholic doctrine and call that life, then so be it, that’s his right to do so. He doesn’t have to participate in the IVF process if he doesn’t want to, and is perfectly free to take a vocal stand against it if he so chooses.
Neither pat nor his religion have the right to “ban it altogether” based on their religious beliefs. Pat doesn’t seem to get that.
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]WW3General wrote:
To Brother Chris and Sloth
Can
yoU
Not make a new
Thread
seriouSly
[/quote]
No.[/quote]
Read his post a little more closely. [/quote]
I did. Same answer.
[/quote]
Oh.
I thought you would’ve had a different response to someone calling you a cunt.[/quote]
LOL
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]WW3General wrote:
To Brother Chris and Sloth
Can
yoU
Not make a new
Thread
seriouSly
[/quote]
No.[/quote]
Read his post a little more closely. [/quote]
I did. Same answer.
[/quote]
Oh.
I thought you would’ve had a different response to someone calling you a cunt.[/quote]
Ah, a bit of childish vulgarity. Well, he got himself ignored already, so consider that my response.
[quote]bigflamer wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]bigflamer wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]bigflamer wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]bigflamer wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]bigflamer wrote:
And there it is folks, the compassion and understanding of god and his fan club.
So what say you, theists among us, is this a case of “grave, immoral sin”? Was the teacher’s firing warranted?[/quote]
Oh brother. The problem is the farming of embryos. Making and disguarding embryos is tantamount to abortion. That’s the problem. [/quote]
Problem for whom? An embryo is most definitely NOT a person, or life.
[/quote]
Soooo, what is it? A dead lizard? Science disagrees with you. Science says it’s both human and alive. I think you’ll have a hard case proving it’s neither.[/quote]
Living human tissue is living human tissue, not life.
Dead lizard? Seriously…WTF?
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]bigflamer wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
Yes, this teacher’s firing was totally warranted. It’s a disgusting practice that is morally abhorrent and should be banned all together.[/quote]
Then by all means, I would encourage you to never participate in the process then. But a hearty “fuck you” to those like yourselves who would push their personal religious views on the masses. Don’t like IVF? Then don’t participate; easy enough.
[/quote]
If you were right about the embryo thing, then I would agree, but you are not so I don’t.[/quote]
Oh, but I am right, in that my belief does not equate a clump of cells to “life”.
YOUR religious belief is that the clump of cells constitutes life somehow. Whatever, that’s your thing, you have the freedom to believe any damn thing that you want regardless of what I think of your belief. You don’t however, have the freedom to enforce your religious beliefs on others. Capeesh?
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]bigflamer wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
I know this doesn’t make sense to you, but we value human life, where as human life is about as valuable to you as getting gum stuck to your shoe. So I am not surprised you don’t get it.[/quote]
ORLY?
Listen, patty cakes, my 15 years as a firefighter/EMT has consistently put me knee deep in the tragedy and triumph of human life. You think you know me? You don’t know fuck all about me.
Ever deliver a baby in the bathroom of a shitty apartment or on the side of the road? My crew just last week delivered one three weeks ago; it was my second in the field delivery. Kid was a real screamer.
Ever do unsuccessful CPR on a three month old, and have to tell the mom that her kid is dead only to have her wail and clutch at your arm to please keep trying even though the child is dead? That was my reality. (by the way, she prayed her ASS off the entire time. food for thought)
Ever hand dig a ten year old out of the side of the sand hill he was buried alive in? Have to walk around for years seeing flashes of his face and the dirt in his teeth from trying to get a tube past all the dirt that was packed into his throat? That’s what I seen for a few years after that one.
Ever cut down a woman who hung herself in her bedroom? listen to her teenage daughter cry her eyes out and pray to god that she not die? Your god wasn’t listening that time either apparently.
Ever have a successful CPR save? Go into their house, find them with no pulse, do your job well, and have them come see you at the fire station some time later to say thanks? You think to yourself, “Damn, I knew that guy when he was dead!”
Don’t lecture me on what I do or do not know about human “life”. I’ve seen more than my share of tragedy and triumph in the arena of “life”, patty cakes. That dog’s not gonna hunt.
[/quote]
I really didn’t need your resume. I don’t give a shit what you do for a living. Don’t be so touchy. I am merely stating that we regard the importance of life itself as the pinnacle of importance, and you value you thoughts, feelings, emotions and economics over human life so long as it’s not visible to you. That is unless you are suddenly pro-life. Which I doubt.
[/quote]
This has nothing to do with my resume, it has everything do do with you running your suck recklessly and telling me what I do or do not value. The above is me pointing out that you have no clue about what I really value, and that you once again screwed the pooch. Just because I don’t think a clump of tissue equals life, doesn’t mean that I have no regard for life. Get it?
I value life just as much, and possibly more than, the average person. Believing that a clump of living tissue constitutes life is your thing, not mine. A clump of living tissue, IMHO, does NOT constitue life. If my wife and I ever had needed IVF, and made a personal family decision to pursue that, then it’s none of your fucking business. Period. End of story.
Wouldn’t it be super duper if you could just keep your shitty religion to yourself, and not try and force it down the throats of those who don’t share your beliefs?
There’s a thought…
[/quote]
It’s not a religious belief ding-a-ling, it’s a scientific fact. By admitting at least that its a ‘clump of cells’ you at least admit it’s alive. So now we’re at a ‘living clump of cells’. So now you argue that this living clump of cells, fair enough. So are you, just a bigger clump. So now, is this living clump of cells human or not?[/quote]
Scientific fact? No kidding.
Tell me, does the embryo have a vital function of any kind? NO, it doesn’t. It has no structure other than cellular. No brain, no nervous system, no heart beat; nothing. No life. Just a clump of cells. Now, does this clump of cells have the potential for life? Possibly, but that’s debatable as well, now isn’t it. Is a blank sheet of paper a potential drawing?
[/quote]
So you judge life by whether it’s functional? huh? No, life? LOL! so it’s a bunch of dead cells?
Okay, so this clump of cells, is not life, and may possibly be a potential for life?? Ha! That’s a good one, I thought you were being serious! Oh. You were?
K, this cell clump are are not only alive, but are also human. Not in part, in total. Everything a person is, is in those cells.
A blank sheet? Not hardly, the DNA structure in those cells have already every physical feature of that person from then until death.
There is nothing that is present in you current physical condition, that wasn’t already ‘decided’ at this clump of cells stage.
First that’s a red herring. You’re trying to submit my claim is wrong, not because the claim itself is wrong, but your perception that it’s all driven by religion. So therefore, you posit, I must be wrong, because the facts presented are religious in nature and not based in anything other. I can simply retort that your refusal to see things as they actually are is colored by your religious sensibilities. Choosing to be an atheist is a religious decision. You’re wrong on both counts.
I believe that the ‘clump of cells’ as you call it, is not only actually living, but is a human life. That has nothing to do with religion. It’s simply a fact. That ‘clump of cells’ is either a human life, or it’s not.
We can play the link game and I can supporting this fact, from a purely scientific stand point.
Here is one, it’s quick and easy, short and to the point and nary a single mention of anything religious.
LOL! an 8 cell human zygote isn’t alive?.. So is it like a dead animal where the thing was alive but died? Or is it more like an inanimate object, say like a rock? Or is it more like a virus, that technically is not truly alive until it bores into host cells that they then destroy and replicate themselves from?[/quote]
Correct. Eight cells clumped together is not in any way “life”. No brain, no hear beat, no organ structure, no nervous system, nothing. No life. Is this all very confusing for you?
[/quote]
Oh, so let me get this strait, these 8 cells clumped together aren’t life? You sure you want to stand by that statement? They aren’t alive, there is no life within them? That’s you’re serious proposition?
Ok, I’ll play. So is it dead? Or isn’t some spontaneous mineral reaction happens and “POW!”, a person pops out for no reason? Now I am confused.
Oh, does that mean that something with out a nervous system, brain, no heart, then it’s not alive?
Ok, but I know lots of stuff that doesn’t have any of that stuff and it’s still a living autonomous thing.
Just a hint, this would be a good time for one of those links. You know the one that backs up, your shit about the population thinking? That’s also called ‘argumentum ad populum’
Of course, I think it would be an utter waste of time. Because it has nothing to do with the fact that the a fore mentioned 8 cell clump is an autonomous human life or it it isn’t.
You are really obsessively concerned about my faith. It seems to be all your really concerned with. Why, I am not actually talking about it at all, you keep, repeating bring it up. Beats me why, unless you really got nothing else going. You either need to prove to me that the said 8-cell clump is not an autonomous human life, or you have to convince me that there is a point where the human life matters less than at other points in the cycle between life and death.
Bringing up my faith is completely relevant to the issue. Your atheism colors your thoughts, so who cares. Not everything is a religious stance pissing contest.
Oh, is that an accusation? Please show where I have done that.
LOL! There is a person here that could be considered religion obsessed. It it sure as shit ain’t me…
[quote]bigflamer wrote:
Again, not life…[/quote]
Define life.
[quote]bigflamer wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]bigflamer wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]bigflamer wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]bigflamer wrote:
[quote]nocturnus wrote:
Aaaahhh, the Catholic Church - where birth control and IVF make you a ‘grave, immoral sinner’ but abusing kids and covering it up is acceptable.
Strange set of rules.[/quote]
You got that right.
[/quote]
Don’t worry, your record is safe. Atheists have murdered over 300 million in the 20th century alone. Nobody is going to beat that record anytime soon. And according to nocturnus, if a few people belonging to a group do a bad thing, it is automatically acceptable by that group. Ergo, in that model, atheists murdering non-atheists is acceptable to atheists. Just like abusing kids is acceptable to Catholics. [/quote]
Ah yes, the old meme of “atheists killing in the name of no god”. LOL…yea
Glad you dragged this out, I’ll have a chance to address it later.[/quote]
Go nuts.[/quote]
On second thought, this old meme is so tired and fallacious that it’s really not worth the time. I do believe that a face palm is in order though, as a tribute to such a classically shit stupid line of reasoning.
[/quote]
Good boy!
It goes both ways you know. You do realize you started this ‘classic shit line’ of reasoning? I was just happy to play along, like I said I have good documentation.
We are no more for molestation than you are for mass murder. But if you say we are for molestation, than I will say you are for mass murder.[/quote]
You have documentation for jack shit. But if you’d like, we could move this conversation over to the hijack thread and continue there.
And my issue with the whole catholic church child molestation debacle is largely due to the cover up that went on. that was reprehensible IMHO. Your church covered it up, just own up to that. So, on one hand they’re working real hard to cover up the child molestations that were going on with their own priests, and on the other hand condemning people as “grave sinners” for wanting IVF, or being on the pill, or living together before marriage, or using rubbers…
So yea, not just a strange set of rules that they run with, but a strange set of values as presented by their actions.
[/quote]
Yup, people in the church fucked up real bad. I agree 100%. It doesn’t mean, because some people did evil shit, that the rest of the population isn’t doing right.
Of course it was reprehensible, I supposed you are tied in knots about all occurrences of sexual abuse. You’re not just singling out people in the church? You do realize this is a world wide pandemic and you are outraged damn it! You are doing everything in your power to help those kids in Africa and Haiti and the child sexual slavery happening here and infecting every part of society?
You’re concerned about the kids right? You’re upset about what happened to them right?
[quote]WW3General wrote:
To Brother Chris and Sloth
Can
yoU
Not make a new
Thread
seriouSly
[/quote]
Cute, I think my girlfriend, back when I was in 9th grade, wrote me a note like this when I broke up with her. But, I think she called me a dick instead.
[quote]bigflamer wrote:
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
[quote]bigflamer wrote:
Again, not life…[/quote]
Technically could be considered life, but so are a lot of other things even plant cells that nobody cares about.[/quote]
Sure, pat obviously does, depends on your personal philosophy.
But my point in this IVF discussion is that many, many people do not think that an embryo consisting of eight cells does not constitute life. If pat wants to subscribe to catholic doctrine and call that life, then so be it, that’s his right to do so. He doesn’t have to participate in the IVF process if he doesn’t want to, and is perfectly free to take a vocal stand against it if he so chooses.
Neither pat nor his religion have the right to “ban it altogether” based on their religious beliefs. Pat doesn’t seem to get that.
[/quote]
Ah, I see you are going for the ‘human life is ok to take at certain points’. So by this, I take it you concede it’s an autonomous human life? Now we’re on to ‘well it doesn’t really look like ‘us’.’
Your obsession with my religion is bordering on creepy. I don’t talk about it as much as you do. Not even close.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]WW3General wrote:
To Brother Chris and Sloth
Can
yoU
Not make a new
Thread
seriouSly
[/quote]
Cute, I think my girlfriend, back when I was in 9th grade, wrote me a note like this when I broke up with her. But, I think she called me a dick instead. [/quote]
My advice? Don’t waste your time. He’s either a troll, or about a mature as that 9th grade girlfriend. Though, I suppose both go hand in hand. See his other thread, a couple of responses down.
Guys you realize how futile it is to try to have a legitimate discussion with religious people right? I mean if you look at what they believe in and also account for the fact that blind faith in their respective religions is considered a good quality you will realize how useless it is. You can not discuss or argue rationally with ignorance and stupidity.
Sloth- Friend
I don’t know yoU
Can’t say I would care to
you don’t Know me either
You seem like
the average cathOlic
yoU get my drift?
I think it is funny you did not get the other one til Raj told you
and brother Chris I am not even gonna try to be cute with you I fucked that 9th grade g/f and your mom.
If a baseball and bat cost $110, and the bat costs $100 more than the ball, how much does the ball cost?