And now I must ask, how does a person so rightfully sensitive to this kind of conduct against children, seem completely oblivious to a larger example of it? I have seen this brought up a number of times. to be thrown into the faces of Catholics on this forum. I have yet to see–outside of us Catholics trying to reestablish some context–a single post about the secular public school system. I can not recall one topic about this. Not one. Maybe I’m wrong, but I damn sure don’t recall one instance. So, I have to wonder, is it ignorance? And if so, how did the mainstream media fail to report this topic with same (if not more) urgency? Or, is it a perverse practice by posters here, to so unevenly use these crimes against a particular group of people?
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
“The Committee on Medical Ethics of the Federation of Jewish Philanthropies of New York concluded that a fertilized egg not in the womb, but in an environment–the test tube–in which it can never attain viability, does not have humanhood and may be discarded or used for the advancement of scientific knowledge.”
Judaism FTW![/quote]
Oh, you’re converting to Judaism. Mazal tov![/quote]
Nope. But I have some dear friends, wonderful people, who had a multiple birth due to in-vitro. Finest people on the planet. To then have them called ‘inherently evil’ in what they did…well, the gents who thought that up can kiss off…seriously.
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
well, the gents who thought that up can kiss off…seriously.
[/quote]
No thanks.
Alrighty, anyone who wants to debate the Catholic priest molestations please go to Hijack Haven.
Please and thank you.
Organised religions suck. Plain and simple.
The least suck-ish are Hinduism and Judaism.
Condemning people for wanting to have children…Jesus is mighty pissed.
[quote]therajraj wrote:
Alrighty, anyone who wants to debate the Catholic priest molestations please go to Hijack Haven.
Please and thank you. [/quote]
Woah, if you’re going to try to change the subject on the OP maybe YOU need to prance yourself over to Hij…oh, right. Carry on.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
Alrighty, anyone who wants to debate the Catholic priest molestations please go to Hijack Haven.
Please and thank you. [/quote]
Woah, if you’re going to try to change the subject on the OP maybe YOU need to prance yourself over to Hij…oh, right. Carry on.
[/quote]
You mean several pages ago where I let the conversation die once I realized it was off topic?
Oh no.
This thread seems to be going off in several directions…just trying to keep it on topic.
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
Alrighty, anyone who wants to debate the Catholic priest molestations please go to Hijack Haven.
Please and thank you. [/quote]
Woah, if you’re going to try to change the subject on the OP maybe YOU need to prance yourself over to Hij…oh, right. Carry on.
[/quote]
You mean several pages ago where I let the conversation die once I realized it was off topic?
Oh no.
This thread seems to be going off in several directions…just trying to keep it on topic.[/quote]
I was trying to be funny. But I guess that’s why no one is clamoring to pay me to do stand up comedy.
My last post on this subject.
Sloth-I never said that other people do not molest children. But you are a perfect example of a catholic trying to down play the fact that your on organized church is and has been guilty of this crime and the church has covered it up. Instead of being properly outraged you choose to try to focus on some other molestor of children and state how much worse that is then what the catholic church is doing. That is the outrageous bullshit that makes some of you catholics so ridiculous. When you have to defend child molestors while defending your religion something is not right. Most catholics though would rather try to explain away why the clergy of their church is on a small molestor. There is no such thing as a small molestation issue. If you want to talk about this more pm me or start a thread and let me know. But, with no facts behind it my honest opinion is if you are going to downplay the severity of molestation in the catholic church as not so serious then you have been thoroughly brainwashed.
I will not read or resond to anymore replys, in this thread Sorry OP.
[quote]WW3General wrote:
My last post on this subject.
Sloth-I never said that other people do not molest children. But you are a perfect example of a catholic trying to down play the fact that your on organized church is and has been guilty of this crime and the church has covered it up. Instead of being properly outraged you choose to try to focus on some other molestor of children and state how much worse that is then what the catholic church is doing. That is the outrageous bullshit that makes some of you catholics so ridiculous. When you have to defend child molestors while defending your religion something is not right. Most catholics though would rather try to explain away why the clergy of their church is on a small molestor. There is no such thing as a small molestation issue. If you want to talk about this more pm me or start a thread and let me know. But, with no facts behind it my honest opinion is if you are going to downplay the severity of molestation in the catholic church as not so serious then you have been thoroughly brainwashed.
I will not read or resond to anymore replys, in this thread Sorry OP.[/quote]
I’m not downplaying it. I’m just not letting you ‘up play’ it in your sick little mud-slinging game. Folks like you have made those victims a propaganda tool. I’ll start up a thread about the Public school situation, if you’d like. There you can exercise the same amount of anger at the secular public school system. Being that it’s much more widespread, I’m sure we’d see you over there condemning the DoE, teachers, and the ‘brainwashed’ people still supporting the publicly institutionalized education system–still sending their kids off each morning into the clutches of deviant fiends. Then again, I suppose they could keep their kids home where they’re even more likely to be molested by a relative or a family friend. But just to be even clearer…If you think leaving your kid with Catholic clergy is a statistically bigger risk than with a teacher, or your family, or family friend, I’ve got chilling facts for you. If you think I took you to school with the school stats (and I did), I’ll have you doing background checks on your family and friends. Not that you gave two craps about anyone getting molested in the first place. Just something to score points against Catholics with.
[quote]WW3General wrote:
“more likely culprit is non-religious ambivalence”[/quote]
I’m guessing you don’t understand what that statement means.
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Nope. But I have some dear friends, wonderful people, who had a multiple birth due to in-vitro. Finest people on the planet. To then have them called ‘inherently evil’ in what they did…well, the gents who thought that up can kiss off…seriously.
[/quote]
Does not seem like you share in these people’s “fineness.” Though I would like to see where anyone called these people inherently evil.
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Organised religions suck. Plain and simple.
The least suck-ish are Hinduism and Judaism.
Condemning people for wanting to have children…Jesus is mighty pissed.[/quote]
Yet, another example of the mighty intellect of HH.
No one is condemning anyone for wanting to have children, you’re arguing against a straw man.
[quote]WW3General wrote:
My last post on this subject.
Sloth-I never said that other people do not molest children. But you are a perfect example of a catholic trying to down play the fact that your on organized church is and has been guilty of this crime and the church has covered it up. [/quote]
Wow. This is some of the most inflammatory crap I’ve ever seen. Complete and utter bullshit.
I admit that Sloth hasn’t advocated for the lynching of child molesting priests as I have, but if I know anyone who is outraged about this horrendous crime anywhere close to me, it’s Sloth. I have never seen him down play any of this. There is a difference between putting something in context and downplaying it.
Unbelievable.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
I admit that Sloth hasn’t advocated for the lynching of child molesting priests as I have, but if I know anyone who is outraged about this horrendous crime anywhere close to me, it’s Sloth. I have never seen him down play any of this. There is a difference between putting something in context and downplaying it.
Unbelievable. [/quote]
The victims, the families, AND the innocent clergy and laity who now get smeared by opportunists, have frequently been in my prayers. Will I advocate lynching child-molesters of any association? Capital punishment was a hard one for me as I went through RCIA. I finally submitted to the Church’s near total condemnation of it, making my peace with it’s instruction on the matter. In cases of crimes against children, it can be a very fragile peace indeed. There I have to remind myself that from time to time the innocent might hang from the same tree as the guilty, so while we have the resources for detention, that is the route we must take.
To Brother Chris and Sloth
Can
yoU
Not make a new
Thread
seriouSly
[quote]WW3General wrote:
To Brother Chris and Sloth
Can
yoU
Not make a new
Thread
seriouSly
[/quote]
No.
Raj > Sloth.
/Thread.
[quote]Gettnitdone wrote:
Raj > Sloth.
/Thread.
[/quote]
Gosh, it must be so.
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]bigflamer wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]bigflamer wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]bigflamer wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]bigflamer wrote:
And there it is folks, the compassion and understanding of god and his fan club.
So what say you, theists among us, is this a case of “grave, immoral sin”? Was the teacher’s firing warranted?[/quote]
Oh brother. The problem is the farming of embryos. Making and disguarding embryos is tantamount to abortion. That’s the problem. [/quote]
Problem for whom? An embryo is most definitely NOT a person, or life.
[/quote]
Soooo, what is it? A dead lizard? Science disagrees with you. Science says it’s both human and alive. I think you’ll have a hard case proving it’s neither.[/quote]
Living human tissue is living human tissue, not life.
Dead lizard? Seriously…WTF?
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]bigflamer wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
Yes, this teacher’s firing was totally warranted. It’s a disgusting practice that is morally abhorrent and should be banned all together.[/quote]
Then by all means, I would encourage you to never participate in the process then. But a hearty “fuck you” to those like yourselves who would push their personal religious views on the masses. Don’t like IVF? Then don’t participate; easy enough.
[/quote]
If you were right about the embryo thing, then I would agree, but you are not so I don’t.[/quote]
Oh, but I am right, in that my belief does not equate a clump of cells to “life”.
YOUR religious belief is that the clump of cells constitutes life somehow. Whatever, that’s your thing, you have the freedom to believe any damn thing that you want regardless of what I think of your belief. You don’t however, have the freedom to enforce your religious beliefs on others. Capeesh?
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]bigflamer wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
I know this doesn’t make sense to you, but we value human life, where as human life is about as valuable to you as getting gum stuck to your shoe. So I am not surprised you don’t get it.[/quote]
ORLY?
Listen, patty cakes, my 15 years as a firefighter/EMT has consistently put me knee deep in the tragedy and triumph of human life. You think you know me? You don’t know fuck all about me.
Ever deliver a baby in the bathroom of a shitty apartment or on the side of the road? My crew just last week delivered one three weeks ago; it was my second in the field delivery. Kid was a real screamer.
Ever do unsuccessful CPR on a three month old, and have to tell the mom that her kid is dead only to have her wail and clutch at your arm to please keep trying even though the child is dead? That was my reality. (by the way, she prayed her ASS off the entire time. food for thought)
Ever hand dig a ten year old out of the side of the sand hill he was buried alive in? Have to walk around for years seeing flashes of his face and the dirt in his teeth from trying to get a tube past all the dirt that was packed into his throat? That’s what I seen for a few years after that one.
Ever cut down a woman who hung herself in her bedroom? listen to her teenage daughter cry her eyes out and pray to god that she not die? Your god wasn’t listening that time either apparently.
Ever have a successful CPR save? Go into their house, find them with no pulse, do your job well, and have them come see you at the fire station some time later to say thanks? You think to yourself, “Damn, I knew that guy when he was dead!”
Don’t lecture me on what I do or do not know about human “life”. I’ve seen more than my share of tragedy and triumph in the arena of “life”, patty cakes. That dog’s not gonna hunt.
[/quote]
I really didn’t need your resume. I don’t give a shit what you do for a living. Don’t be so touchy. I am merely stating that we regard the importance of life itself as the pinnacle of importance, and you value you thoughts, feelings, emotions and economics over human life so long as it’s not visible to you. That is unless you are suddenly pro-life. Which I doubt.
[/quote]
This has nothing to do with my resume, it has everything do do with you running your suck recklessly and telling me what I do or do not value. The above is me pointing out that you have no clue about what I really value, and that you once again screwed the pooch. Just because I don’t think a clump of tissue equals life, doesn’t mean that I have no regard for life. Get it?
I value life just as much, and possibly more than, the average person. Believing that a clump of living tissue constitutes life is your thing, not mine. A clump of living tissue, IMHO, does NOT constitue life. If my wife and I ever had needed IVF, and made a personal family decision to pursue that, then it’s none of your fucking business. Period. End of story.
Wouldn’t it be super duper if you could just keep your shitty religion to yourself, and not try and force it down the throats of those who don’t share your beliefs?
There’s a thought…
[/quote]
It’s not a religious belief ding-a-ling, it’s a scientific fact. By admitting at least that its a ‘clump of cells’ you at least admit it’s alive. So now we’re at a ‘living clump of cells’. So now you argue that this living clump of cells, fair enough. So are you, just a bigger clump. So now, is this living clump of cells human or not?[/quote]
Scientific fact? No kidding.
Tell me, does the embryo have a vital function of any kind? NO, it doesn’t. It has no structure other than cellular. No brain, no nervous system, no heart beat; nothing. No life. Just a clump of cells. Now, does this clump of cells have the potential for life? Possibly, but that’s debatable as well, now isn’t it. Is a blank sheet of paper a potential drawing?
[/quote]
So you judge life by whether it’s functional? huh? No, life? LOL! so it’s a bunch of dead cells?
Okay, so this clump of cells, is not life, and may possibly be a potential for life?? Ha! That’s a good one, I thought you were being serious! Oh. You were?
K, this cell clump are are not only alive, but are also human. Not in part, in total. Everything a person is, is in those cells.
A blank sheet? Not hardly, the DNA structure in those cells have already every physical feature of that person from then until death.
There is nothing that is present in you current physical condition, that wasn’t already ‘decided’ at this clump of cells stage.
First that’s a red herring. You’re trying to submit my claim is wrong, not because the claim itself is wrong, but your perception that it’s all driven by religion. So therefore, you posit, I must be wrong, because the facts presented are religious in nature and not based in anything other. I can simply retort that your refusal to see things as they actually are is colored by your religious sensibilities. Choosing to be an atheist is a religious decision. You’re wrong on both counts.
I believe that the ‘clump of cells’ as you call it, is not only actually living, but is a human life. That has nothing to do with religion. It’s simply a fact. That ‘clump of cells’ is either a human life, or it’s not.
We can play the link game and I can supporting this fact, from a purely scientific stand point.
Here is one, it’s quick and easy, short and to the point and nary a single mention of anything religious.
LOL! an 8 cell human zygote isn’t alive?.. So is it like a dead animal where the thing was alive but died? Or is it more like an inanimate object, say like a rock? Or is it more like a virus, that technically is not truly alive until it bores into host cells that they then destroy and replicate themselves from?[/quote]
Correct. Eight cells clumped together is not in any way “life”. No brain, no hear beat, no organ structure, no nervous system, nothing. No life. Is this all very confusing for you?
I know how much you love your catholic soap box, but all of your religious pontification won’t change the fact. Myself and a very large part of the US population do NOT see the embryo as “life”, they see it as a cell clump and nothing more. I realize that this bothers you, and to be honest, I don’t really give a fuck. If it helps though, you could hang out after mass and talk with the other parishioners about what dreadful sinners we all are. But forcing your religious belief onto others isn’t very nice patty cakes.